FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 31 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
mohdnabeel, sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT
22915 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ed_Morris 4
AndyLA 3
futsaowingchun 2
Zombie Zero 2
Matakiant 2
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Eugue Ryu
by
03/27/07 12:06 AM
Recent Posts
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/19/14 09:05 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Matakiant
09/18/14 07:11 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/31/14 09:43 PM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Forum Stats
22915 Members
36 Forums
35575 Topics
432495 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#286093 - 09/17/06 06:42 AM 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries?
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
So in TKD we do patterns and perform our techniques in the 'air' (read: with no resistence). Now I always want to kick and punch my best (technique must result in full power right?), but I feel my joints, especially my left knee, begins to hurt and 'shift', especially when I do a Dollyo Chagi.
Can it be the technique that needs some adjustments or do I just have to hold back? Anyone else got simulair problems?


Edited by sgtZipper (09/17/06 06:44 AM)

Top
#286094 - 09/17/06 07:01 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: sgtZipper]
Marishiten Offline
illegitimate Onna Bugeisha

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Australia, NSW
I believe the patterns done in the 'air' you speak of is called kata.
I don't do TKD, but you either may have something wrong with your joints or you really might need to improve your technique. I don't know the likelyhood of your joints hurting and shifting if the technique isn't right ... you could ask your master. But it's most likely something to do with your joints, so have them checked out.

Top
#286095 - 09/17/06 07:21 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: Marishiten]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
lol kata hurting your joints? come on.. He probably means they have to shadow box kind of thing, If it were me id hold back a bit, dont kick at full force when you kick the air lol, ive done my knee in once when i side kicked the air really fast. So yeah, take it easy.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

Top
#286096 - 09/17/06 07:27 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: crablord]
Marishiten Offline
illegitimate Onna Bugeisha

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Australia, NSW
yes and it's probably worth mentioning that the point isn't to kick/punch as hard as you can. If your form and technique isn't up to par yet with what it's supposed to be, I advise working on that first.

Top
#286097 - 09/17/06 07:31 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: Marishiten]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
yep, if they wanted you to hit hard theyd make you hit a bag. Bag = Hard - Air = Technique
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

Top
#286098 - 09/17/06 07:42 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: Marishiten]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
I'm talking about performing kicks during Tuls (the 'kata' like patterns) and random practice. It is not that I am kicking my hardest without thinking about technique, contrariwise I DO kick using good technique (not that I kick so hard that I get unbalanced), but I meant maybe my joints can't take the 'power' provided by the technique?
So I just wanted to know, do you guys have any problems with this? I guess I already know the answer to my problem, which is to take it easy on the joints;)

Top
#286099 - 09/17/06 07:43 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: crablord]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I suspect you punch or kick to "full extension" in the air, and throw all that force to your joints. Keeping the joints slightly flexed will alleviate much of that problem or eliminate it all together.

Keeping your hip back while kicking can also cause the mechanics of your kick to be incorrect and cause the angle you're trying to execute the kick to stress the knees. Talk to your sensei and have them watch what you're doing and correct your body posture.

If you don't get any changes, you might want to have it medically examined to see if its a medical problem.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#286100 - 09/17/06 07:53 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: wristtwister]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
Ok, thanks, the hip might indeed be the cause of the knee 'snapping'. So what you are saying is to 'throw' the hip more forwards? I recall one of my Sabums mentioning it.
I think the problems began recently when I bought a punching bag, when kicking it I forgot to think about the technique, I was just bringing op the leg instead of first pulling my knee up. So in practice I had to start all over again, because the technique was all gone. When training for the 1st degree I got some notes from my Sabums, so I'd check them out, because maybe there might be some pointers.
Thanks, you somehow got me thinking haha

Top
#286101 - 09/17/06 01:56 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: sgtZipper]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
One of the first things we teach students in karate is to roll their lower hips forward with any kicking technique. That essentially puts your hip joint vertical with the floor, rather than over your heel and pointed at your toe. It frees up the mechanics of the kick considerably. FWIW

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#286102 - 09/17/06 02:25 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: sgtZipper]
sgtZipper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 25
Loc: the Netherlands
So I went through the notes I got from my Sabums, and indeed there was a note for the Dollyo Chagi. Like you said, the hip is ought to be in that direction, so that the heel of the foot is pointed upwards (I was doing this wrong already haha). Well I hope this will solve the problem of the Dollyo, though I will still hold back on kicking too hard, because I first want the knee to restore. So I think this was a matter of technique.

Top
#286103 - 09/17/06 04:00 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: sgtZipper]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
WristTwister's identified what I see as the problem already. Don't over extend the joint- you're looking to straighten the arms and legs, not lock out.

Top
#286104 - 09/19/06 02:37 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: sgtZipper]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Some people complain that they feel pain in their joints. Usually elbows and knees when they air punch and kick with speed and strenght.

I myself am not one of those people. When I practice forms I use full power however, to maintain balance and proper stance I also use control.

For example, when I shadow spar I use full power aswell and if I were to throw a rear hand punch I would tend to lean my body slightly more forward than when I would do forms. Durring forms I twist my hips for power BUT I maintain a straight posture, I DO NOT lean forward. When I shadow spar I tend to lean my body forward into the punch while still maintaining complete balance.

The difference is because forms are formal, while shadow boxing is not. Either way though, when I attack I go ful power. When I do a round, side, back and front kick, I straighten my leg.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#286105 - 09/19/06 02:42 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: TeK9]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
If it's not a medical proplem and it's not serious. Then perhaps it could be lack of stretching. However, if it's not that, then perhaps I suggest you were a knee brace. As for myself I've dislocated both my left and right knees. Fortunately I didn't hurt the ligaments, but I sometimes feel that my knee is just not being held together as tightly as before. When it feels lose, or when I feel it cannot support me. I wear a kneed brace.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#286106 - 09/19/06 03:30 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

As for myself I've dislocated both my left and right knees. Fortunately I didn't hurt the ligaments, but I sometimes feel that my knee is just not being held together as tightly as before. When it feels lose, or when I feel it cannot support me. I wear a kneed brace.




I read this and then your previous post ... perhaps stop kicking full force in the air and shadow boxing.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
#286107 - 09/19/06 04:01 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I dislocated my first knee in my first year of martial arts practice. I was practicing jumping high kicks in my cement floored garage.

Jumping as high as I can straight up into the air then high kicking, unfortunetly at the time my re-chambers where not as quick and I would land on one leg. My instructor never warned me about practice high juping kicks without mats... I learned the hard way, when I destroyed my left knee.

My right knee was dislocacted durring sparring. I was swept wrong. Instead of attacking the back of the knee, my sparring partner hit the side of my knee.

That clear it up for you? When I refer to pain in my knee's i's usually a pinching feeling or lack of power in the knee. As I said, I wear a brace when this happends.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#286108 - 09/19/06 09:15 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Cleared it up good. Take it easy still because you don't want to make things worse. Take care of yourself Tek.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
#286109 - 09/20/06 01:15 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: sgtZipper]
MastaFighta Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 260
Loc: United States
Newton's First Law of Motion - "Objects in motion tend to stay in motion, and objects at rest tend to stay at rest unless an outside force acts upon them."

Newton's Second Law of Motion - "The rate of change of the momentum of a body is directly proportional to the net force acting on it, and the direction of the change in momentum takes place in the direction of the net force."

Newton's Third Law of Motion - "To every action there is an equal but opposite reaction."

The object in motion, for example, is your arm when you punch. The only way your arm will stop is if another force acts upon it which in this case happens to be you contracting your muscles to halt the motion. Usually the amount of force needed to stop motion needs to be equal to the force used to start it. As you try stopping the movement of your arm, the momentum is still moving forward as the force you are exerting is moving backwards, thus placing stress upon your joints.

I hope that makes sense, at least from a scientific perspecitve. If not then I apologize.

Top
#286110 - 09/21/06 04:03 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
If you don't extend your leg completely or punch with bad intentions how are you training?

Not extending the leg, is poor technique, works the muscle less and is a bad habit which can spill over to your sparring. Further, by not extending the leg and using power behind your technique your not commiting to the attack which is very bad psychologically. Especially if your oppoenent catches wif of your fear of committing, they will eat you alive.

Example: If your constantly on the defense durring sparring or durring a match, your opponent will gain confidence and momentum, you on the other hand lose any advantage you might have had.

Never let them see you sweat.

-Tek
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#286111 - 09/21/06 09:29 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Question to me? I personally don't like kicking and punching into the air but I do it as that is some of the drills we do. Punching I have no problem but kicking I hold back. I try to complete the technique but lighter and with control. I much perfer kicking paddles as then I can kick through it.

I've found for myself I cannot kick very high when it comes to the air. Kicks are usually knee/groin level when kicking in the air, with the exception of step side kicks and front kicks, but when kicking to paddles I can easily kick chest height. Also a little reserved about kicking to hard as I have a bum left knee.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
#286112 - 09/21/06 09:38 AM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
It was a general question to anyone.

I prefer kicking paddles or chest protector drills. But when we do warm up line drills we kick the air. I like to extend my leg completely to get full range of motion and work te muscles more. I don't put so much power that I lose control of myself and trip over. But I do extend my leg completely. For side kicks, round kicks, back and front kicks, I lock my knee's when I kick and then quickly re-chamber.

But yea, wen it comes to kicking drills I prefer paddle and chest protector drills.

Much of Olym[ic style kicking drills are done with a forward momentum. Meaning many of the kicks are down with footwork. Very little is a kick down in stationary position. And even then we have like foot work for stationary position.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#286113 - 09/27/06 11:14 PM Re: 'Air' punching and kicking result in injuries? [Re: sgtZipper]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
Dont extend the joint in a punch or kick. Also keep the elbow or knee slightly bent. And pull the technique back if there is no pyhsical target to hit. But the real key is to not extend the joints as if you were going to hit a real target.
_________________________
There can be only one, and its neither of us!

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga