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#285832 - 09/15/06 09:57 PM Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do?
solaron Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Just checking for a friend to see if anyone has heard anything about the Shaolin Do style of Kung Fu. Real? Scam? Worthless? Good? Heard both good and bad things about Grandmaster Sin The, but only from unlearned people (the supporters and detractors could only repeat stuff they'd heard from a friend's brother's cousin, etc).

Thanks!

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#285833 - 09/15/06 10:24 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Check this thread:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...ue#Post15795506

You may want to search on Bullshido. Sin The's claims about his training and the origins of the art are suspect. The training at the schools is not likely to be good, but apparently there are some decent ones. Check it out first before you join.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#285834 - 09/15/06 10:39 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
solaron,

Like Matt said, location is a kay part of this.
Where are you located? I spent a few years within the Shaolin Do system before moving on to other things, I may be able to help.
PM if you like.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#285835 - 09/15/06 11:46 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: Fisherman]
solaron Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Thanks for the speedy replies!

The location in question is Blue Ash Shaolin Do, in Cincinnati, Ohio. It's not too far away from Bill Leonard's place, from what I hear. The site is www.ohiosd.com.

I don't think that a shady history matters to my friend... but it may. It doesn't really, to me, if the art itself isn't fake. I doubt you'll find a 100% authentic 'Shaolin' style anywhere in the world - Shaolin temples these days even are becoming tourist traps for aspiring MAs.

Either way, if anyone knows anything about the Cincy Shaolin-Do, I'd love some feedback. I will probably try it with him.

Thanks!

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#285836 - 09/16/06 07:10 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
I would stay away from shaolin do...I guess if you've never trained in a martial art before I would understand. But their advertising tactics, lineage hoax, and various other suspect things really throws most people off. Also because I have been at a similar "McDojo" before, one with a charismatic teacher...and very isolated practice. You will understand what I mean later..
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#285837 - 09/16/06 09:38 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
I am not familiar with this group. If there is nothing else in your area, you may want to check them out.
The Shaolin Do that I attended, while it's lineage is questionable, did have a pretty good program. Lots of good conditioning, sparring, and a ton of forms - if thats what you are looking for.
I don't think the art itself is fake, but I do queston how the material was actually obtained befoe being passed along by Sin Kwan The.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#285838 - 09/17/06 04:52 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: Fisherman]
Shouji Offline
Member

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 272
Loc: VA
Well, before I say anything, I want you to know that I am currently learning Shaolin-Do Kung Fu. My Grandmaster holds 9th Degree in Hap Ki Do and Kung Fu. He also holds 8th degree in Tae Kwon Do. As you can imagine, he is running the Dojo pretty much all day, everyday. He is a great man, and he is ALWAYS in the classroom teaching, and never takes a day off unless it is REALLY important. (btw, a sign of a good teacher is that he/she is always in the class, not just sending a higher level student to teach).

Kung Fu is one of the oldest fighting arts known to mankind. It means, "hard work" and, "always learning". Its divided between two systems, external and internal. The external system is identified with the Shaolin style. Most of it is animal forms (tiger, dragon, crane, snake, leopard, praying mantis, monkey, eagle claw...etc). The internal system consists of, "softer" styles, such as Tai-Chi, Hsing-I, Pa-Kua.

Also, there are over 16 weapons to learn from. As of now, I learned broadsword, 2 parts to Staff, and the Straight Sword. Others include spear, whip chain, 3-Secional Staff, Kwan-Do (halberd)...etc.

From my honest perspective, avoid Kung Fu unless you truly understand Martial Arts in general. It is 99.7% form form form. Doing these forms, you learn to apply them in real life situations. There is no sparring (at least in my class).

It is possibly the hardest art to learn. Its often looked down upon because, "they" say that the Katas used in the forms wouldn't work in real life. This is not true. It all depends on how hard you train at it, and how much you truly believe in the art. It is far more complex of the 3 my Grandmaster teaches (in his own words).

Also noted, Kung Fu is heavily the opposite of everything Bruce Lee says. Kung Fu is limited only because the forms are strict, and must be done in the exact way it is taught, no exceptions. Although myself, I personally favor Bruce Lees philisophys.

There you have it.
_________________________
The only thing a belt is good for is to hold your pants up

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#285839 - 09/18/06 08:31 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: Shouji]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Shouji,

I think that it is good that you are happy with where you are training and hold your teacher in high regard.
I do have to differ with some of your points that you are trying to make. As you might have seen in the other post, I too have spent quite a bit of time at a school that holds the Sin The teachings etc. I hold no ill regret about the time that I spent there because it put me on the path that I'm on today.

Quote:

Its divided between two systems, external and internal. The external system is identified with the Shaolin style. Most of it is animal forms (tiger, dragon, crane, snake, leopard, praying mantis, monkey, eagle claw...etc). The internal system consists of, "softer" styles, such as Tai-Chi, Hsing-I, Pa-Kua.



This is only true of the Shaolin Do system. Not all schools do all of these different things. As a matter of fact, a lot of places focus on one or two of the above mentioned styles within their system. As far as learning a martial art is concerned, I think that this is a much better approach. You have more time to devote yourself to one style and get good at it rather than spreading yourself thin by learing so many different things. You can have the time needed to perfect principles and techniques rather than just learining form after form.

Quote:

From my honest perspective, avoid Kung Fu unless you truly understand Martial Arts in general. It is 99.7% form form form. Doing these forms, you learn to apply them in real life situations. There is no sparring (at least in my class).



The kungfu at the Shaolin Do scholls are 99.7% forms. You do not learn how to apply forms by doing them, sorry, it just doesn't happen that way. You need to at least spar to get a slight grasp of what fighting is like. Furthermore, you must train how to apply the principles and techniques the form is trying to convey. If you are in a fight or even in sparring for that matter, you will not be able to apply the form as you learned it. Fights are random and therefore you must be able to attack and defend as such. Forms will get you nowhere if you don't know how to use them properly to train. Forms don't teach you how to fight, training methods do.

Quote:

It is possibly the hardest art to learn. Its often looked down upon because, "they" say that the Katas used in the forms wouldn't work in real life. This is not true. It all depends on how hard you train at it, and how much you truly believe in the art.




The hard training will get you speed, stamina, and strength, but when it comes to actual martial skill, forms alone aren't going to cut it. You need to learn how to train the principle and techniques imbedded in the forms with others, spar, etc. if you want to effectively learn how to apply your art, even if it is just in self defense.

Best regards,
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#285840 - 09/18/06 10:24 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
tarpshack Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 10
Unfortunately I cannot weigh in on the Shaolin Do authenticity debate. I do not have the martial arts experience or historical knowledge. However, I can speak for the Blue Ash Shaolin Do school and its teachers as I have recently joined this school. It is excellent. I'm not sure if other martial arts are like this, but I can tell right away that you get out what you put into it. The instructors are very talented. Their instruction is good and personalized as needed. There is sparring, and there is conditioning. I mostly chose this particular school because I knew a couple people there, but it has turned out to be an excellent choice. I would recommend you check it out if you are interested. I wouldn't normally go promoting my school on here to anyone who mentioned Shaolin Do, but you specifically asked about my location. I thought it might help your decision to hear from someone who has started taking classes there.

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#285841 - 09/18/06 02:52 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: tarpshack]
ashe_higgs Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 593
Loc: phoenix
basically, what fish said.

but i do have a buddy who does shaolin do, and he's a scrapper. although, most of what they train at his school is form.

that's not bad in and of itself. not everybody wants to train as hard as a thai boxer.
_________________________
falling leaves discipline, concentration & wisdom

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#285842 - 09/28/06 10:43 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: ashe_higgs]
shaolinbobert Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 3
Forms are taught in Shaolin, and a lot of them, since there are more than 900 available. Grandmaster Sin The' takes a trip to China every year, and his only expense has been the ticket back and forth. As a group, he takes any students who wish to go, and they must only buy thier tickets and take spending money if they want. The monks provide all else. It seems tome that if the Grandmaster had no relationship other rthan money with the monks, he would not be getting such ospitality for free, nor would the system itself charge 1/3 what others do, for far more training. I have sat in on some karate classes, as well as some thai boxing and TKD classes, and have seen what I needed to to realize that Shaolin is not fake or a scam.

Rolling 100lb metal bars up and down your shins and forarms to condense the bone isn't a sham.

Punching buckets of marbles until the bones soften, so that they may condense isn't a sham.

I don't know what the deal with bashing shaolin is on every form on the net, but as far as I can tell, people are after immediate results. Shaolin has a bad rep in sparring because if you go out as a colored belt in shaolin and spar, you will get raped, more or less. Shaolin is slow. Monks spend thier whole lives dedicated to the art, what makes you so impatient that you must be master by blue belt, or its a fake?

Personally, if you want to be billy bad ass at a tournament, take some other style. If you are dedicated and want to practice a difficult art, that reaps devistating benifits to those who are dedicated enough, then take Shaolin. Shaolin-Do masters do not enter tournaments. Not under Sin The' if they are in good standing. The reason for this is both to preserve the art, and keep it off of videotape, and to keep naysayers talking. What warrior wants his opponent to know everything he can do? Do a set of pushups on two fingertips to 100, and repeat for two days a week for a year. If you can't punch your finger through someone's temple, then you can bitch.

_________________________
I am not perfect, I am Impeccable.

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#285843 - 09/28/06 11:41 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: shaolinbobert]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

since there are more than 900 available.



And what good is learning that many forms going to do you?

Quote:

As a group, he takes any students who wish to go, and they must only buy thier tickets and take spending money if they want. The monks provide all else.



Wrong. There are other costs are embeded in the 'China trip' cost that you have to pay forward to the school. It is not just the ticket. Everything is included in that price; transportation, food, etc. The only optional part is the spending money. It is a good deal since it is based on a group package, but lets be honest, the monks aren't putting everyone up for free.
Quote:

It seems tome that if the Grandmaster had no relationship other rthan money with the monks, he would not be getting such ospitality for free,



It seems to me that most of the Shaolin monks know that there is a large market in foreign kung-fu tourism. Their so called hospitality is probably embeded in the cost of the trip.

Quote:

nor would the system itself charge 1/3 what others do, for far more training.



They can charge less because they have such a large student base and a well organized marketing system.

Quote:

Rolling 100lb metal bars up and down your shins and forarms to condense the bone isn't a sham.



and that wouldnb't be an exageration would it?

Quote:

Punching buckets of marbles until the bones soften, so that they may condense isn't a sham.



Softening so they condense? Are you sure about that?

Quote:

Shaolin is slow. Monks spend thier whole lives dedicated to the art, what makes you so impatient that you must be master by blue belt, or its a fake?



Hmmm, I don't recall anyone saying that here. Another exageration? Look, I spent a good solid 5 years training very hard in the SD system and I can tell you that there is more to it than what they have to offer. What they have to offer is not bad, but it could be better. There are ways to train a martial art that have better result as far as fighting skills than learning forms and doing conditioning exercises. Sparring is great, but what good is it if you don't know how to apply what you have been learning?

Quote:


Personally, if you want to be billy bad ass at a tournament, take some other style. If you are dedicated and want to practice a difficult art, that reaps devistating benifits to those who are dedicated enough, then take Shaolin.



Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?
Who cares about the tournament! I want to know that what I am pouring my heart and soul into is going to be effective as a martial art. Sure it is difficult, but difficulty shouldn't be the only discerning factor in choosing a martial art that is worth while.

Quote:

Shaolin-Do masters do not enter tournaments. Not under Sin The' if they are in good standing. The reason for this is both to preserve the art, and keep it off of videotape, and to keep naysayers talking.


For a second there I thought you were going to throw out the "too deadly for tournament" line.

Quote:

What warrior wants his opponent to know everything he can do?



Do you really think that entering into a tournament will really have that effect?

Quote:

If you can't punch your finger through someone's temple, then you can bitch.




Can you?
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#285844 - 11/17/06 06:28 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
tarpshack Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 10
Quote:

Thanks for the speedy replies!

The location in question is Blue Ash Shaolin Do, in Cincinnati, Ohio. It's not too far away from Bill Leonard's place, from what I hear. The site is www.ohiosd.com.

I don't think that a shady history matters to my friend... but it may. It doesn't really, to me, if the art itself isn't fake. I doubt you'll find a 100% authentic 'Shaolin' style anywhere in the world - Shaolin temples these days even are becoming tourist traps for aspiring MAs.

Either way, if anyone knows anything about the Cincy Shaolin-Do, I'd love some feedback. I will probably try it with him.

Thanks!




Sol,
Did you or your friend ever end up checking out the school? I wanted to know what you thought and if I might have run into either of you.

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#285845 - 11/22/06 04:11 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
Cavocer Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Ohio, USA
Before I get into the bulk of this post you should know I'm one of the assisstant instructors at Blue Ash Shaolin-Do.

First, Solaron, if you are interested in the classes come in and try one. We try to sell ourselves (BASD) on the art itself. Instrutor credentials are all on the website that you've linked and they hold to be true, IMO.

The belts move by rather quickly and we give you a lot of information. It's my understanding that they early colored belts are set up to give a student a background in several styles and at the same time build up their strength, speed, and precision.

Tarpshack is absolutely correct about getting out of the system what you put into it. If you focus on your stances and move to perform the movements of the forms you'll begin seeing the multiple applications to each move.

And regarding learning application through form, as I was going through my belts (I'm only first black now) my teachers didn't explicitly go through the forms and show us the applications to each move. We were expected to pull the applications from the forms. This practice is no longer strictly followed as we usually now show at least one application to the basic short kata, sparring techniques, etc. if they are not readily apparent.

Our school holds sparring weekly and as you pass into higher belt levels you are allowed to participate in sparring with lower belts.

The "Conditioning" class is just like it sounds, physical conditioning. Lots of pushups, crunches, and squats to build core strength. Sprints and and other cardio training to keep the heart rate up. Punching and kicking drills to keep everyone in class familiar with basic striking techniques. Something that has been experimented with was an experimentation with application where we choose a form and work out different applications from the movements during the class. That last part is a welcome breather from the pushups.

Lastly, I'd like to reiterate that you really do get out of the style what you put in. If you come in you'll see brown belts holding poor stances and not showing much power or intent and you'll also see Yellow belts trying to make the forms as correct as possible but they are all trying and those are the students we enjoy teaching.

Regarding the history, I found this site because I was doing research on the validity of SD's claims. If the history is important to you I think we'll all find out the "truth" when

Peace.

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#285846 - 11/22/06 04:21 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: Fisherman]
bemenaker Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 1
Fisherman, I have read your profile, and then I reread your post here, and it utterly confuses me. It looks like you would understand some of the basic principles and philosophies involved in martial arts, yet your post directly refutes that.
"
Quote:
since there are more than 900 available.


And what good is learning that many forms going to do you? "

What kind of reply is this? Where does the number of forms in a system have anything to do with relevance? Some forms have many katas to learn, others are shorter and greatly simplified. This is due to both the philosophy of the form and it's use. Jeet-Kun Do has a very short system, does that make it more or less relevant as a system? No, it is a different philosophy. The more you learn, the more you have a base knowledge to work with.

"
Quote:
Rolling 100lb metal bars up and down your shins and forarms to condense the bone isn't a sham.


and that wouldnb't be an exageration would it?"

Well, let's see, I witness my instructors using a 75 lbs bar, but I am sure you will find some way to dismiss this. It's in our dojo if you want to come to Ohio and check it our.

This comment from you threw me for a total loop, I can not fathom how you could possibly say this if you are a student of martial arts:
" Sparring is great, but what good is it if you don't know how to apply what you have been learning?"

The whole point of sparring is to practice your technique. If you are not attempting to apply what you have been doing in all your training, then why are you training? If you do katas for twenty hours a week, then switch to classic european/american boxing when you spar, why are you taking martial arts in the first place. Every week, when I spar, I pick a move from one of my katas and focus on trying to use it a fight. Would this work on the street, no, but that's not the point, the idea is to use the sparring to practice applying what I have learned and figuring out how to make it useful. The point of doing the kata hundreds and thousands of times over, is to make it so second nature that this is practical. Are those long forms practical for street application, absolutely not, and you would be missing the boat if you think that's what their purpose is. It is to teach you some forms and to teach you how to link them and let them flow in combat situations. They are loose ideas meant to train and strengthen you. Practical application of those moves is different, hence the sparring practice.

" Quote:

Personally, if you want to be billy bad ass at a tournament, take some other style. If you are dedicated and want to practice a difficult art, that reaps devistating benifits to those who are dedicated enough, then take Shaolin.


Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?
Who cares about the tournament! I want to know that what I am pouring my heart and soul into is going to be effective as a martial art. Sure it is difficult, but difficulty shouldn't be the only discerning factor in choosing a martial art that is worth while."

No, this is not an oxymoron, if you just want to do tournament fighting, some styles lend more to that. I will never be a good point sparrer, because I am willing to take a blow, to set you up for a kill shot. If your punch to my stomach gives me a clean shot at your throat, I'll take that trade off on the street any day. Yes, intent matters.

" Quote:
What warrior wants his opponent to know everything he can do?


Do you really think that entering into a tournament will really have that effect?"

There is total relevancy to this, but it would mean seeing the same opponent in competition regularly. In high school, as a wrestler, yes, I intentionally held back on techniques until later in the season. I didn't want the opponent I would see in state championships to have seen all my tricks on our first encounter.

I apologize for making this sound like a personal attack, but when I read your posts, it just floored me. I don't understand how someone who studies martial arts, could seem to miss the boat so much.

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#285847 - 11/25/06 05:37 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: shaolinbobert]
Shouji Offline
Member

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 272
Loc: VA
Heh, I wonder if the OP learned anything.
_________________________
The only thing a belt is good for is to hold your pants up

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#285848 - 11/27/06 07:45 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: Shouji]
tarpshack Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 10
Quote:

Heh, I wonder if the OP learned anything.



I don't know, but he certainly got good responses. There were general Shaolin-Do supporters as well as critics. Plus he got testimony about the Blue Ash Shaolin Do school specifically, as he asked, from both a new student and an assistant instructor.

From his other posts, it appears solaron has made the decision to attend an Aikido school here in Cincinnati. So it may be that he is no longer interested in the answer to his question.

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#285849 - 11/27/06 09:48 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: bemenaker]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
bemenaker posted

Quote:

It looks like you would understand some of the basic principles and philosophies involved in martial arts, yet your post directly refutes that.



I do have an understanding of the basic principles and philosophies involved in MA's. I have more than that in the particular areas I have trained in. Look, I don't profess to know everything, that is why when I don't know about a subject I ask questions. When I do know something I speak freely. This thread is specifically addressing Shaolin Do where I have spent a number of years and countless hours training. I am addressing what I KNOW about the Shaolin Do/Chinese Shaolin Center lineage.
Before I continue let me make something perfectly clear. I do not bag on what they do at their schools or the way they teach. I would not be where I am today if it wasn't for what I learned there. I do think that there are more effective and efficient teaching styles out there, but I am not here to play the mine is better than yours game.
What I do find irritating is when new people who have not contributed anything to the forums in the past come on with a cocky attitude and show no respect toward other forum members.

Quote:

What kind of reply is this?



As I stated above, I won't speak of things I don't know about. I spent a lot of time learning countless forms and didn't get a lot out of it. The question is genuine. What do you think that training 900 forms is going to do for you? How is someone going to have time to thouroughly train all of this and effectively dicipher the information within while trying to remember it all?

Quote:

Where does the number of forms in a system have anything to do with relevance?



I was refering to where shaolinbobert posted "Forms are taught in Shaolin, and a lot of them, since there are more than 900 available." Did you read the entire thread?

Quote:

The more you learn, the more you have a base knowledge to work with.



And the more you learn you will see that there are only so many ways to manipulate the human body in space especially when that space is shared with another human being that is seeking to engage with you. We all have basic ranges of motion that techniques are built off of. Maybe you have noticed by now (maybe not) that a lot of forms hold similarities to others. Why do you suppose this is?
I realy don't care how many forms or katas you do or don't have. My interest lies in whether people can demonstrate a form with proper mechanics, can explain the principles of the movemnts they are performing, and can demonstrate how they are used within the context of fighting.

Quote:

Well, let's see, I witness my instructors using a 75 lbs bar, but I am sure you will find some way to dismiss this. It's in our dojo if you want to come to Ohio and check it our.



If I am in that area, I would be more than happy to. I am interested in how a bar weighing that much is used in reference to training. It would seem that using a bar that weighs 75-100 lbs is an exageration because we never used anything that heavy when I was doing SD. Maybe your teachers are doing something different than mine?

Quote:

This comment from you threw me for a total loop, I can not fathom how you could possibly say this if you are a student of martial arts:
" Sparring is great, but what good is it if you don't know how to apply what you have been learning?"



I mean exactly what I said and you are trying to make a point of it yourself. The point of sparring is to train a learned principle or technique. To train a technique or principle that comes from a form EFFICIENTLY you need to train it as an exercise before you spar with it. It will take people forever if they are trying to figure this out on their own. But then again, maybe this is what people want? If it takes someone longer to learn something, then that geerally means that they the teacher stands to profit more.

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the idea is to use the sparring to practice applying what I have learned and figuring out how to make it useful.



Funny, I thought that this was the point of having a teacher.

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The point of doing the kata hundreds and thousands of times over, is to make it so second nature that this is practical.



Doing a form is not going to do this for you. Training forms 1000's of times is good for exercise, flexibilty and focus. It will not give you an instinctive second nature response when someone attacks you. If you want it to be second nature then you need to find a training partner and practice a technique WITH THEM till it becomes second nature. Practicing a form is in no way comparible to practicing with a training partner.

Quote:

I apologize for making this sound like a personal attack, but when I read your posts, it just floored me. I don't understand how someone who studies martial arts, could seem to miss the boat so much.



I don't think I have missed the boat at all. I think that I am traveling on a different boat than what you are. As a matter of fact, I would even go as far to say that I used to be on your boat, I just moved onto another boat that is taking a more direct route to where I want to go.
If you are ever in my area, please feel free to PM me. I am very open minded and I truly believe that it is difficult to convey the physical aspect of things in great detail without being able to physicaly demontrate a point.

Regards,
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#285850 - 12/19/06 12:11 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: MattJ]
Jay_Sea_JC Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 10
Hi there! I have been a student in the Chinese Shao-lin Center for four or five years now. And to me, i couldn't be any prouder to be a student. I may only be sixteen but grant me this request and please hear me out. When people say that you can't learn to defend yourself in this school I can sort of understand what their talking about; but they want you to develop the ability to learn from the form as the monks did in the past, or that is my understanding. Also they teach Chin Na seizing and holding techniques which I found very useful as an average highschool teenage boy . Also every week my master teaches applications for the form, so i don't know where everyone is getting that they don't teach you applicatoin. I am also glad that there is a 900+ resivoire of forms, more application, and though it may be much, I would rather be over prepared than under prepared. As for Grandmaster The's stories, call me naive but I beleive them 100%. And even though others would still believe that he was lying, and though it makes me frustrated, the story of his aspirations and achievement had inspired me to such a great degree of training. Thats more than enough for me.Again, I'm am surging with pride for the Chinese Shao-lin Center, Grandmaster The', and my masters. I also feel that it is what the student makes of the art and the teachers that develops a great fighter and not the art itself. I acknowledge that the training there may not be other people's cup of tea, but to me its the best place "I" could possibly be in. Thank you for hearing me out and I hope this helps.

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#285851 - 12/19/06 08:37 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: Jay_Sea_JC]
tarpshack Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 10
Martial Arts really comes down to personal preference anyway. There are hundreds of posts on this forum alone where people ask, "Which style should I take?" Most often, the common answer given is, "Try all and see which one fits you best." Shaolin-Do is just another style that several people including myself find very beneficial. If it weren't for the people I knew taking and teaching Shaolin-Do I probably wouldn't be taking any martial art at all today. It may be that one day, after years of training, I find myself unsatisfied and searching for a new system, but I can't see it. Right now it's everything I need it to be.

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#285852 - 12/21/06 11:01 AM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: Jay_Sea_JC]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

Also every week my master teaches applications for the form, so i don't know where everyone is getting that they don't teach you applicatoin.



Maybe I missed it all together? When I was attending the CSC I was not shown nearly the amount of application as I have seen in other places. I would say their primary area of focus from what I experienced is on forms and fitness and not in learning how to genuinely apply the technique and fighting principle on the forms. You do learn the occasional application when doing forms work. You also learn applicaton when doing 1 step sparring routines, and chin na routines. Having a frame of reference to compare with, I would say that their application is trained in a manner wherein it is not as effective as some other arts.
Let me make something PERFECTLY CLEAR. The CSC IS NOT a bad place. I think it is a good place to go if it is what you are looking for in MA. I simply found intetrests in other arts that have different areas of focus. I have said it before and I'll say it again. I would not be where I am today if it wasn't fo my experiences there at the CSC. I am entirely greatful for those experiences and what I learned there. They put me on the path of to where I am today.

Quote:

I am also glad that there is a 900+ resivoire of forms, more application, and though it may be much, I would rather be over prepared than under prepared.



I don't think that many form means that many applications. I can find that many applications in 64 forms easily. And I still think that is a few too many forms for my taste sometimes. Look, I dig forms, I like them as a tool to train when I am on my own, but forms do not directly teach application. 900+ forms is going to be a amazing feat in and of itself to remember. In order to retain that ammount and kind of material you have to practice it at least once in a while. My point is, you are doing and learning forms so much that there is minimal time to learn and train application.

(I am having a reflective moment, and I don't seem to recall many people ever asking "how does this work?")

Quote:

I also feel that it is what the student makes of the art and the teachers that develops a great fighter and not the art itself.



I would agree with that statement. I would add that the methods in which the art is trained also play a major if not predominant factor in making a great fighter.

Quote:

I acknowledge that the training there may not be other people's cup of tea, but to me its the best place "I" could possibly be in. Thank you for hearing me out and I hope this helps.



That is a repectable acknowledgement. Thanks for posting.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#285853 - 12/31/06 05:25 PM Re: Anyone know anything about Shaolin Do? [Re: solaron]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Yeah, I know a thing or two about Shaolin Do.

Enough to stay away from.

It is a McDojo, which lures novices into its huge theories and interesting interpretation of the shaolin/internal arts. When I was a teenager,I went to a McDojo very similar, if not identical.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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