FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 55 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
THEFOREVERMAN 3
royal 2
Dobbersky 2
MattJ 2
UKfightfreak 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:22 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:20 AM
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432378 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#285614 - 09/15/06 04:27 AM Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls please!
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Hullo,

I realise this might seem like just another flamebait, but I'll try to formulate my questions well so we don't get the cliché "does qi exist and do you get really über wielding it?". Discuss with me.

Because of the near mythical status the term has reached, alot of people don't even believe it exists. I do; sometimes I believe in it so fervently that I'm perhaps even afraid of finding out, in case this wonderful thing would be just a lie.

First off, are there reiki practicioners here? I gather, that this is one of the most common ways to come in contact with qi. Being a bit of a sceptic, the whole concept of paying progressive amounts of money to learn something that is thought to be natural sounds pretty bogus to me. Could I hear a reiki practicioners thoughts on the subject?

And on we go; to the martial applications of qi. If qi exists and is able to be used offensively, does its usefullnes usually get exaggerated by those who wish to make money on it or don't have a proper understanding about things? Could it be that this mystical force is something that could nowadays be viewed as focusing on the task at hand and controlledly releasing adrenaline? Or is there more to it? More, perhaps, that is achievable by the mere mortals we all are? One point that arguments for it is ofcourse the existense of pressure points; even western medicine recognizes acupuncture as a viable method of treatment nowadays, although perhaps not to the same extent as ancient chinese medicine. What are your personal experiences with qi (what you perceive to be the 'real thing', not the mystical ability that makes you an invincible ancient reborn samurai and whatnot)? As internal arts seem to be based in large extent on developing qi, I'm also curious to what extent senseis know what they are doing, and whether they are able to teach their students about qi to the extent of.. (well, I don't know what, you tell me to what extent? =p).. Or does the fervent wish to be able to channel qi create a placebo effect in "weaker" minds (no pun intended). It is after all easy to give yourself incentive to feel something (or something similar to what you think it would be like) you would really like to be able to do.

Further speculation; human muscles can contract from an electric shock so hard that they shatter the bones between them. Perhaps qi applied offensively allows stronger control of your muscles, or do you believe that it adds something in addition to muscular strength? Old belief is, after all, that while the young practicioner is strong of body, the old practicioner can still win him in combat, even if its purely impossible that the older practicioner is in as strong or fast as the younger one. (Face it, there is no magic trick to prevent aging! )

And finally - apologies in advance if I use some words wrong; I'm not a native english speaker.
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

Top
#285615 - 09/15/06 04:41 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Oh and since I'm asking for peoples experiences it's only fair I tell you about mine. Well, they're purely aural. I've heard about lots and lots of things, but never experienced anything. Which propably is one of the reasons why I'm sort of sceptic. I mean, I've never experienced even something minor, atleast not something that I wouldn't have had another name or a good explanation for.

Or well, there is one thing.. Great masters have been said to have touches that felt like lightning bolts.. I can do that.. I just put on microfibre clothes and rub and scratch myself and then go discharge on someone.
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

Top
#285616 - 09/15/06 06:19 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
I had some Reiki training once. I was 16 and searching for someone to teach me more about the tingling/heat and ecstatic sensations I'd been using since I was a little kid. I knew I could use it for healing because I'd already used it a few times for this purpose. How I learnt those concepts was straightforward-I was and am a bookworm.

However, the progressive price hike and 3 levels and you're a "master" combined to feed my later skeptism. Even now, I think it's possible to use a symbol to focus intention etc but I don't go for the concept that there are a few symbols that can be drawn in your "aura" to release "reiki". Doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't help that I've seen Reiki healers and felt nothing really from them. Nothing like what I can do for myself.

I'm 28 now, I've used what I call healing (and *may* be "chi" "qi") since I was 7 with obviously more awareness and understanding as I grew up. Even now I won't say that it's definitly one thing or another because I don't truly know and can't prove it. I can work on 5 people, regardless of their beliefs, and get 1 or 2 that respond fast and are fixed within minutes, 2 more who I work so hard on I drip and then get a decent result and one who barely feels a thing if anything. That seems to be a pattern but independent of their beliefs.

The chinese and indian practices to a degree have influence on the feeling of energy that I work with. If I use a basic Kundalini yoga technique I get nice fireworks up the spine right from the base, the crown "chakra" goes off and throbs pleasently and I heat up nicely.
If I use Mantak Chia's Microcosmic orbit a few times I feel grounded and stronger, I get heat and tingles, and it follows the paths he describes.

If I use his bone breathing and using "tactile imaging" follow instructions to wrap bones etc I can feel warmth and passage of energy. These are real physical sensations. Whether they are psychosomatic and transferrable to others via rapport or whether theres a real force I can't say for sure. I do know that I've done enough work on people through instinct to know that something real happens to my patients. Also if I work the energy for about an hour with passion (the opposite of the zen ideal!), my movements will change, flow more and I'm more creative with made up katas. They are faster too.

I'm relating my experience rather than trying to say that a particular definition of qi etc is definitly real. I shy away from "believing" too much. I believe in the sensations I can create in myself and others including tears of joy, chakra throbbing etc. What I don't have a belief for, is the "explanations". I don't have any. I can however teach some of the skills quite quickly and then leave you to figure out your own stuff :-).

Note:I'm not promoting my services as they are NOT for sale. I use them when I meet people who feel like letting me work on them.

Top
#285617 - 09/15/06 06:44 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: soulfiremage]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Did the reiki training add anything to what you were already able to do? Have you succesfully taught what you do to others too, or do you think that people need to be 'attuned' like in reiki (personally I think that's just a load of [censored] made up in order to maximise profit)?

I'm also curious about how you go about to do it..

-Is extensive imagining things happening involved, or do you think that is more of a tool to help the untrained mind do what it does not yet know any other way for?

-From what you write I gather that movement affects the sensation too. In what way? Is it stretchy movements, or just movement series that activate muscles and get your blood circulating? Or something else?

-How do you breathe? Is a certain kind of breathing required so that you can do it, or is just any breathing good. This in particular intrests me as there seem to be a myriad of different breathing techniques out there. Some say you should breathe with your chest, some say with your stomach. Some say you should take long calm breaths, while others tell you to squeeze out the air using your abdominal muscles, and then letting your lungs fill by themselves (I do this sometimes and I have to say it feels pretty good - though not when you are hungry ).
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

Top
#285618 - 09/15/06 06:56 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
Firstly for me Reiki wasn't real or useful. If others had positive experience, great though I suspect that those individuals were actually empowered a little through self belief rather than the intrinsic reality of reiki.

I could do what I do before reiki.

Breathing can influence it, especially when you close various muscles in the in breath in particular. However I can move energy whilst holding my breath and sitting dead still.

Yes, the imagination is the key along with your emotions and your intention. At least that is my experience so far. Deliberate use, intensity of desire to make it work seem to be essential. Suspension of questioning whilst working with it is important also.

Most new age things I've seen go on about visualising stuff etc. Most folks can't visualise well enough to do anything more than meditate with it. There are exceptions. However the easiest way is to go with tactile imaging and use visual stuff as an extra help.

Tactile imaging, brief explanation. Stroke a finger joint or a toe joint. Pay attention to two things. Firstly the feeling of the joint on your finger. Then also the sensation in the skin and bone being stroked. Next, stroke the joint again or the one next to it (or any other that you feel like!) but with imagination. Feel yourself using an "imaginary hand and finger", imagine the movement and receiving the sensation. keep it up until you get a small tingle in that joint. Move to each joint in your hands and feet until they feel warm and tingly. If you got this far, you can logically see the rest of the joints can be worked in this way. Along with stroking inside and through the arms and legs, the spine, also the lips and mouth. You can then proceed onto wrapping the joints etc.

Get that working and come back to me with questions if you wish. Alternatively get Mantak Chia's Iron shirt chi kung and use tactile imaging to follow the instructions. Or any other energy work you like. :-) Let me know if you make stuff happen.

Finally note that the perineum, the solar plexus and the throat are "locks" used in yoga, and also apply in chi kung and other chinese energy systems. Get a feel for these, regardless of explanation because these will become real important :-). Skipping through real quick cos I was about to go out and do a workout :-).

Top
#285619 - 09/15/06 12:18 PM To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Zyranyth]
senseihonor Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 62
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hello -

I have a question regarding qi. I *think* I'm experiencing qi when I do Kobudo or Kata and particularly when I run (I'm a distance runner). I get a very large, intense tingling, usually starting at the back, or sides of my head. As I breath and focus my attention more, I can (sometimes) direct the sensation to a particular part of my body. At this point, I feel warmth, and sometimes a feeling of greater energy. It is a very euphoric feeling for me and I just grin when this feeling starts flooding my body.

My immediate Sensei does not discuss qi, although some other Sensei's within our organization practice Tai Chi and have made reference to qi. I've been doing a little bit of reading on Internal Martial Arts, but so far, I haven't found anything that describes what I'm experiencing.

Am I just oxygen deprived and my body is telling me to breath more , is this qi and I don't know what - or how to work with it, or is this just some weird phenomena

Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Top
#285620 - 09/15/06 12:27 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: senseihonor]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:


Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.




Get a pace maker... sounds like you might need one! If some of the instructors are studying Tai Chi why not ask if you could go along to a few of there classes? Practice and experience what they are talking about first hand. Just remember not to get to sucked in with the whole chi thing, most people who talk about it are total nutjobs. Always keep an open healthily skeptical question mind, especially on matters such as this!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#285621 - 09/15/06 12:34 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Gavin]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Quote:

chi thing, most people who talk about it are total nutjobs.




Lol. Thanks. :P
No but seriously. I'm just trying to statisfy my curiosity here.
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

Top
#285622 - 09/15/06 02:09 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Gavin]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
Gavin,
Whilst I'm not a proponent of "chi balls" and strange enhancements in combat from "chi" or "energy", I am certainly more than willing to demonstrate my ability to use what I can use for healing to you.

If you ever come over to Portishead just outside Bristol, I'll be happy to buy a coffee or beer and hence demonstrate healing directly :-). You can then decide if I fit the nutjob description or not LOL.

Btw, given the number of people hoping to sell secret "healing", "energy" or various new age nonsenses (usually tied in with pseudoscience), your point of view is wholly understandable. I am in the unfortunate position of being in posession of a minor gift or something that happens to be indistinguishable from such frauds, unless it's used face to face.

Top
#285623 - 09/15/06 02:15 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: senseihonor]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
Euphoria can be generated by accident with fast deep breathing, especially following exercise. However, if you can produce intense sensations (heat, tingling) in the spine whilst maintaining a normal unstressed breathing pattern then you might be onto the same sensations that I get when doing Kundalini work or when I use the microcosmic orbit.

I have measured my brainwave activity (fairly roughly with a waverider jnr) at the forehead and also tested GSR when moving energy as compared to normal. Also blood pressure tests I've used. Whatever the explanation for the energy work I can do is, it certainly influences brainwaves, galvonic skin response and spikes blood pressure within the space of ten seconds. No it's not a random double blind controlled trial, just a careful 2 trial home mess about to find what happens, but it was interesting to find physical results.

Top
#285624 - 09/15/06 05:47 PM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Yes, I am a RM and have attuned many people over the past few years. I am a bit busy at the moment so will discuss later when I have some free time.

As a matter of interest, I have not charged any of my pupils for attunements or treatment.

Great topic!
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

Top
#285625 - 09/15/06 06:06 PM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Reiki]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Reiki

I can see why you list your location as "MiddleEarth".

Send Gandalf my regards!





-John

Top
#285626 - 09/16/06 05:46 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls please! [Re: Zyranyth]
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hi Zyranyth

A reasonable question. I've been a martial artist and healer for over 40 years - my MA experience is in karate tai chi iaido and jodo and my healing experience is in 'energy' healing of all sorts - I'm a RM and have worked with martial artists (particularly tai chi and chi kung), spiritual healers, pagans. wiccans and ritual magic. I would say that it's only one type of energy and I would call that 'animation'. Remember the calligraphy for chi is steam coming of a rice pot meaning 'breath' or 'energy of life'

When your posture is correct and your joints open, when you breathe deeply and correctly, when your mind is alert (animated) and focused, you are able to activate the 'pumps' and increase the flow of energy, enhance animation (and therefore the health) of wherever you turn your intention to.

There is an alchemy that takes place in our life, particularly when we train on daily basis that is reflected in our body, as we go through this process we can identify it in others and 'sense' it in them. By using our focused energy with another person who is in dis-ease we can remind their body of what it was like to be healthy - and it's the natural state for a body to gravitate towards good health, so theat if it is possible for their body to heal itself, we can 'jump start' it, or at least give it a little relief.

Good healing usually comes in the way of discussion, reiki, posture and breathing exercises and a course of chi kung as a follow up.

I have never charged anyone for healing as I earn my living teaching MA but I can find no fault in any good healer that does.

When the above learning processes takes place (good MA training being an excellent medium) all techniques will flow much better and carry a lot more 'natural' power.

Just a personal POV but I hope it helps.


Edited by Bossman (09/16/06 05:49 AM)
_________________________
supporting standards in the martial arts www.shikon.com www.masa.org.uk

Top
#285627 - 09/16/06 10:04 AM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: soulfiremage]
senseihonor Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 62
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hello -

Thanks for the comments regarding qi/pseudo-qi .

As for my heart rate during karate/kubudo/running, it's within the normal range for my height, weight, age and excerise level.

I have been speaking to my sensei's who do Tai Chi and they've been a little reluctant to talk about qi. However, they've been strongly encouraging me to *take* Tai Chi (I wonder why??? ). Guess Tai Chi is something that I'll be adding to my MA toolbox @ some point...

In the meantime, I'll continue doing what I've been doing, enjoy the "buzz" (that's literally what it feels like) that I get while doing MA's & running, welcome the sensation as I feel it beginning, grin my head off when it arrives and bid it farewell as it leaves.

By the way, as a newbie to this forum, I am enjoying the discussions on most of the boards I've looked at.

Top
#285628 - 09/16/06 07:34 PM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: JKogas]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

Reiki

I can see why you list your location as "MiddleEarth".

Send Gandalf my regards!
-John




- Interesting comment John! Gandalf is alive and well and is eating weeds around my horse training arena. [Gandalf is a big goat, belonging to my son].

He keeps attacking me & kneecapping me with his horns which is why he's on a chain...

Now back on topic...

Things changed within my life when I started on the Reiki path. I won't go into details however I found it was definitely an intrinsic part of my training to be able to balance it all up with healing.

The energy and healing made me more aware of what others were and werent doing and how they were behaving with their martial arts and has helped me to focus more on my goals.

I think Steve has summed up most of it quite nicely for me anyway in his post above.
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

Top
#285629 - 09/27/06 03:41 PM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Reiki]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Great feedback. However, nobody mentioned ki/qi use while training. Of you healers, does none of you use ki for other purposes (in martial arts). Like, soft strength (or whatchmacallit)?
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

Top
#285630 - 09/28/06 06:11 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Heippa Zyranyth!

I spent a few months in Finland a looooooooong time ago and I attended a shiatsu course run by a ju-jitsu sensei in Helsinki.

What I found then, and since, is that exposure to applied chi makes me go to sleep. I've had shiatsu, reiki and accupressure at various times and i just go bye-byes.

Doing TC forms I've sometimes felt my hands buzzing with chi but, as of yet, I've not used it in application.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#285631 - 09/28/06 07:38 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: trevek]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Do you per chance remember the name of the guy?
Kauko Uusoksa for example is a pretty respected jujutsu sensei who also has some degree of experience in healing arts here.

Then there's for example Yuji Matsuoi of Tauramuso-ryu jujutsu.
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

Top
#285632 - 09/29/06 04:09 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Sadly , no (it was over 12 years ago).

He was a Finnish guy. He'd worked in a shiatsu centre in Japan for some years.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#285633 - 09/29/06 07:59 AM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: soulfiremage]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:


If you ever come over to Portishead just outside Bristol, I'll be happy to buy a coffee or beer and hence demonstrate healing directly :-). You can then decide if I fit the nutjob description or not LOL.





Sorry Soulfiremage I missed this post... anyone who offers me a beer is legit in my books! I don't want to cast the wrong impressions about my beliefs as I'm studying shiatsu and just started studying Tai Chi with the dude who posted above a bit higher up the page( Hi Boss!) so I have quite a lot vested in energetics. Although I generally remian open mindedly skeptical about most stuff until I feel it... and I like doing it that way coz those that prove it usually try really hard and I feel great! Such a nice way to be proved wrong! If I'm ever across your way I'll definately take you up on your offer and buy you the beer!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#285634 - 10/22/06 02:04 AM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: senseihonor]
Sagaratoko Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida, brevard
hey, I started reading some of the threads on this site because I have always taken an interest in martial arts, especially the "internal" regarding qi, chi, ki, or however else you want to refer to it as, before i say anything I want to say I realize Im new to this site so I know my credibility is weak however, there is a lot i believe and a lot i want to say.

before anything, this is all MY opinion, now that thats squared away with.

as previously mentioned I have always taken interest in the "internal arts" being so i took it upon myself to study and learn about it in any and every way i possibly could, so everything I will mention are things i have learned (or mislearned)

there are two types of energies in the human body (regarding this subject) chi, and jing before i get to jing i will talk about chi, chi first off is NOT something that can be used to hurt people, meditating, acupuncture, and even some herbal remiedies are all said to have some involvement with chi, and in all these processes the body is being HEALED not hurt, i believe chi can be used for healing, but in order for it to hurt people has to be transformed,...that is where jing comes in, before jing can even be made, you must have a realization of your chi and learn how to control it, thats why when people try to make "chi balls" they never get any farther, because they are trying to use chi to hurt, or even blow things up, and that is impossible, try and think of chi as gasoline for a car, and jing is the horsepower produced, anyway once u can feel your "chi" or "sensation" whatever you claim to feel, then and only then should you even attempt to create jing.

I know ive talked a lot about jing but have not mentioned how to make it, and im not, the reason being is that i am not a teacher of this, I can recommend an excellent book, that i have found very helpful, and cleared up a lot of questions i had about all this stuff as well, the name is "T'ai Chi Classics" by Waysun Liao.

As for my experience,...oh boy i know everyone is going to make fun, or just plain dont believe me, and once again i know my credibility here is weak but,...It all started for me with nothing more than simple meditation and some relaxing meditation music, i would meditate anywhere from 15-45 minutes a day, I did this for about 2 months, during that i felt a "sensation" for now, we'll leave it at that, i figured big deal a lot of people have claimed to feel that but everyone thinks, ok what now? so I went on to try and practice jing, and i wont lie, i havent been doing it very long in fact, its only been about 2 weeks, but, ever since then those "sensations" i felt, instead of just feeling it i can now direct and control it (inside of my body, i cant shoot it in a beam or nething like that) what do i mean by that? well if i want the sensation in my back i can make it there, if i want in on my feet i can make it there, how will this benefit neone? i dont know the only reason im saying all this is because im noticing progress (or what i believe to be progress) also just like anything to get good at something it takes a lot of practice, i cant emphasize how much this is true about this, most people never get anywhere because they dont stick to it, because lets face it there are a lot of skeptics, and with good reason but, if its something you believe in then practice it to no end.

well if i offended anyone sorry and once again this is all my opion from my learning experiences feel free to criticize (im expecting it unfortunately ) and ask or add anything, adios all! ^.^

also one thing i will say about tai chi, BE VERY CAREFUL IN CHOOSING A SCHOOL the reason being is about 350 years ago the Manchurains took over china, and the chinese people definately didnt like them and saw them as outsiders, really though the manchurians tried to get obsorbed into the chinese culture, much so that they heard about tai chi and had all the most famous masters of the time drafted to teach them, well since the chinese viewed the manchurians as outsiders (as well as having other moral and traditional issues) they did not want to teach them so, Master Yang Lu-chang (1799-1872) deliberatly "modified" the tai chi forms into a whole bunch of slow moving outer exercises, completely ignoring the internal and mental philosophies, the reason for this was because if he simply refused to teach chances are the manchurian emperor would probably get [censored] and kill his family or something, anyway it was from then on that the manchurian emperor (believing he knew the real tai chi) popularized and encouraged this outer style of tai chi, making it popular and widespread, while the "real" (according to this information) tai chi was only passes down from father to son/daughter.
ok the reason i said all this is because a lot of the tai chi schools these days dont teach real tai chi, or at least i believe this, because most tai chi school (or at least the ones i've been too) emphasize way too much on thier forms and some dont even mention meditating, and barely touch the subject of breathing techniques, so if you are going to take tai chi, BE CAREFUL, wouldnt want you wasting...well wouldnt want you not getting what you paid for, because "outer" tai chi will still give you incredibly endurance and strength in your legs, but you could get that a lot of other ways too, ok im done!

Top
#285635 - 10/22/06 10:01 AM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Sagaratoko]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Not a bad post for a first one! I have some thoughts on this I will post later.
Welcome to the forums.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

Top
#285636 - 10/22/06 10:57 AM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Fisherman]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Not bad? Pretty darn good for a first post!

Top
#285637 - 10/22/06 01:06 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: eyrie]
Sagaratoko Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida, brevard
thanks to both of you, like i said I read a lot of threads before i considered posting, and well that helped me out a lot when considereing how to write this.

Top
#285638 - 10/22/06 04:17 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Sagaratoko]
Lucid Warrior Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 213
Loc: TwinCities, MN, U.S.
Sagaratoko,
It's nice to see a beginner not making any claims. It's obvious everyone is refreshed!

Before Fisherman posts something up, I'll try and throw something into the mix... but make sure to listen to him more readily than me because my posts are open to correction.

What you said about external forms without internal cultivation is true, IMO. One of my latest developments is realizing, specifically, two basic concepts of internal developement. 1. Opening the path of least resistance, and 2. combining multiple sources of pressure into the path of least resistance. This is, (as my current understanding) is both the function of the correct structure/breathing/grounding..etc.., and the correct structure/breathing/grounding..etc... is also the function of the above two points. I really don't want to address the issues of the mind though, because that is still my weaker point in understanding. I'm sure there is a whole new understanding just around the corner though.

As far as Jing and qi are concerned... I still don't really have a clue as to what either one are, (specific definitions), as I try to ignore what they are and just focus on making progress with what I do know already.. and let what new information comes my way be learned at the right time.

I'll say this, if you can feel any REAL qi or whatever from just a few months of sitting meditation, then you are extrememly lucky not to start with all of the physical/mental blockages that I started with. Good luck with your progress, and listen to Fisherman, he has set many of newcomers on the correct path in this subject. I might not mind having my above ideas getting his brand of critique either.

steve

Top
#285639 - 10/22/06 04:27 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Lucid Warrior]
Sagaratoko Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida, brevard
Ill keep that in mind, thank you very much!

Top
#285640 - 10/23/06 08:22 AM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Sagaratoko]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

chi first off is NOT something that can be used to hurt people



At least not directly in and of itself.

Quote:

i believe chi can be used for healing, but in order for it to hurt people has to be transformed,...that is where jing comes in



I agree that qi can be used to heal and it is best that it is used that way. I think that you are on track with your idea that it is the jing that can have a destructive nature. I just think that it takes a tremendous amount of time and effort training in order to truly manifest internal power as jing in an application of a technique.

Quote:

before jing can even be made, you must have a realization of your chi and learn how to control it, thats why when people try to make "chi balls" they never get any farther, because they are trying to use chi to hurt, or even blow things up, and that is impossible



I don't think it is learning to control your qi so much as learning how it flows and manipulating the flow so that it continues its natural course in a specific manner that is controlled by conscious thought.
I think that when people try and control qi rather than guide it, they end up getting lost as well. They may get a glimpse of what is available, but they are more than likely not going to reach the higher levels of internal practices.

Quote:

then and only then should you even attempt to create jing.



The only time I think that someone should try and 'create' a jing is after they have been properly instructed on how to do so by someone qualified to teach.

Quote:

I know ive talked a lot about jing but have not mentioned how to make it, and im not, the reason being is that i am not a teacher of this, I can recommend an excellent book



I find this quite respectable, thank you.

Quote:

It all started for me with nothing more than simple meditation and some relaxing meditation music



There is something to be said for relaxing nd alowing the body and mind to open up. Meditation is an excellent tool to harmonize the energies of the mind and body. This harmonization and integration of the mind and body is a key element to internal training.

Quote:

so I went on to try and practice jing



Jing is a manipulation of qi. It is not something that is necessarily practiced. Jing is energy manifested through different body structure and mind intent. For instance, the jing of a push is different than the jing of a pull. Jing defines the type of force you are generating and how you are using it.

Quote:

its only been about 2 weeks, but, ever since then those "sensations" i felt, instead of just feeling it i can now direct and control it



More often than not, in the begining, using the mind to direct attention or awareness to a point on the body can often cause you to feel that part of your body more. It doesn't necessarily mean that you are 'controling' your qi or creating jing. It may just be that you are focusing on a certain point on your body so that is what you feel.

My biggest advice to you at this point would be to find a teacher. It takes some time and you may have to go through a couple of different places before you find the 'goods', but they are out there.
Seems like you have a good mind of what you want in your training and have a serious interest to persue it with.
Best of luck!

Lucid,
Quote:

One of my latest developments is realizing, specifically, two basic concepts of internal developement. 1. Opening the path of least resistance, and 2. combining multiple sources of pressure into the path of least resistance. This is, (as my current understanding) is both the function of the correct structure/breathing/grounding..etc.., and the correct structure/breathing/grounding..etc... is also the function of the above two points.



This is a whole other thread in and of itself and a good one too. We may have to expand on this a bit.
My thought is that if you don't have the right structure to emit power from, then the power will be weak. If you emit too much power from a weak structure then the structure will not be able to tolerate the force generated.

Thanks for the kind words.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

Top
#285641 - 10/23/06 12:44 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Fisherman]
Sagaratoko Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida, brevard
Quote:


I agree that qi can be used to heal and it is best that it is used that way. I think that you are on track with your idea that it is the jing that can have a destructive nature. I just think that it takes a tremendous amount of time and effort training in order to truly manifest internal power as jing in an application of a technique.



I definatly agree, any and all stories and testimonies i have heard about jing have all been about people who have practiced for many years in this art.
Quote:


The only time I think that someone should try and 'create' a jing is after they have been properly instructed on how to do so by someone qualified to teach.



I also agree with this, I didnt mean for it to sound as if you could learn jing on your own, and for that i apologize, even in the book i reccomended they strongly advise to seek a qualified teacher.
Quote:


Jing is a manipulation of qi. It is not something that is necessarily practiced. Jing is energy manifested through different body structure and mind intent. For instance, the jing of a push is different than the jing of a pull. Jing defines the type of force you are generating and how you are using it.




Fisherman, your definatly no stranger to the concepts of jing I am excited to have finnally found a forum with knowledgeable people, thank you

Quote:

More often than not, in the begining, using the mind to direct attention or awareness to a point on the body can often cause you to feel that part of your body more. It doesn't necessarily mean that you are 'controling' your qi or creating jing. It may just be that you are focusing on a certain point on your body so that is what you feel.

My biggest advice to you at this point would be to find a teacher. It takes some time and you may have to go through a couple of different places before you find the 'goods', but they are out there.
Seems like you have a good mind of what you want in your training and have a serious interest to persue it with.
Best of luck!




Your probably right about the controlling qi and feeling different parts of my body, I just get overexcited with things like this and anytime there is room or even slight evidence to say i made progress, well i want to believe it but it is as you previously stated, it takes years of practice and learning from a qualified practioner to achieve that level of internal development, I guess for now the safest thing is just to keep meditating until i am able to find a qualified teacher, thank you for your input and advice I will definatly remember it! also finding a school for this is going to be difficult so i ask, if anyone hears of any schools related to this subject in brevard county florida or close to there, please let me know, it will be appreciated!
once again thank you fisherman

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga