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#285614 - 09/15/06 04:27 AM Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls please!
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Hullo,

I realise this might seem like just another flamebait, but I'll try to formulate my questions well so we don't get the cliché "does qi exist and do you get really über wielding it?". Discuss with me.

Because of the near mythical status the term has reached, alot of people don't even believe it exists. I do; sometimes I believe in it so fervently that I'm perhaps even afraid of finding out, in case this wonderful thing would be just a lie.

First off, are there reiki practicioners here? I gather, that this is one of the most common ways to come in contact with qi. Being a bit of a sceptic, the whole concept of paying progressive amounts of money to learn something that is thought to be natural sounds pretty bogus to me. Could I hear a reiki practicioners thoughts on the subject?

And on we go; to the martial applications of qi. If qi exists and is able to be used offensively, does its usefullnes usually get exaggerated by those who wish to make money on it or don't have a proper understanding about things? Could it be that this mystical force is something that could nowadays be viewed as focusing on the task at hand and controlledly releasing adrenaline? Or is there more to it? More, perhaps, that is achievable by the mere mortals we all are? One point that arguments for it is ofcourse the existense of pressure points; even western medicine recognizes acupuncture as a viable method of treatment nowadays, although perhaps not to the same extent as ancient chinese medicine. What are your personal experiences with qi (what you perceive to be the 'real thing', not the mystical ability that makes you an invincible ancient reborn samurai and whatnot)? As internal arts seem to be based in large extent on developing qi, I'm also curious to what extent senseis know what they are doing, and whether they are able to teach their students about qi to the extent of.. (well, I don't know what, you tell me to what extent? =p).. Or does the fervent wish to be able to channel qi create a placebo effect in "weaker" minds (no pun intended). It is after all easy to give yourself incentive to feel something (or something similar to what you think it would be like) you would really like to be able to do.

Further speculation; human muscles can contract from an electric shock so hard that they shatter the bones between them. Perhaps qi applied offensively allows stronger control of your muscles, or do you believe that it adds something in addition to muscular strength? Old belief is, after all, that while the young practicioner is strong of body, the old practicioner can still win him in combat, even if its purely impossible that the older practicioner is in as strong or fast as the younger one. (Face it, there is no magic trick to prevent aging! )

And finally - apologies in advance if I use some words wrong; I'm not a native english speaker.
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

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#285615 - 09/15/06 04:41 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Oh and since I'm asking for peoples experiences it's only fair I tell you about mine. Well, they're purely aural. I've heard about lots and lots of things, but never experienced anything. Which propably is one of the reasons why I'm sort of sceptic. I mean, I've never experienced even something minor, atleast not something that I wouldn't have had another name or a good explanation for.

Or well, there is one thing.. Great masters have been said to have touches that felt like lightning bolts.. I can do that.. I just put on microfibre clothes and rub and scratch myself and then go discharge on someone.
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

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#285616 - 09/15/06 06:19 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
I had some Reiki training once. I was 16 and searching for someone to teach me more about the tingling/heat and ecstatic sensations I'd been using since I was a little kid. I knew I could use it for healing because I'd already used it a few times for this purpose. How I learnt those concepts was straightforward-I was and am a bookworm.

However, the progressive price hike and 3 levels and you're a "master" combined to feed my later skeptism. Even now, I think it's possible to use a symbol to focus intention etc but I don't go for the concept that there are a few symbols that can be drawn in your "aura" to release "reiki". Doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't help that I've seen Reiki healers and felt nothing really from them. Nothing like what I can do for myself.

I'm 28 now, I've used what I call healing (and *may* be "chi" "qi") since I was 7 with obviously more awareness and understanding as I grew up. Even now I won't say that it's definitly one thing or another because I don't truly know and can't prove it. I can work on 5 people, regardless of their beliefs, and get 1 or 2 that respond fast and are fixed within minutes, 2 more who I work so hard on I drip and then get a decent result and one who barely feels a thing if anything. That seems to be a pattern but independent of their beliefs.

The chinese and indian practices to a degree have influence on the feeling of energy that I work with. If I use a basic Kundalini yoga technique I get nice fireworks up the spine right from the base, the crown "chakra" goes off and throbs pleasently and I heat up nicely.
If I use Mantak Chia's Microcosmic orbit a few times I feel grounded and stronger, I get heat and tingles, and it follows the paths he describes.

If I use his bone breathing and using "tactile imaging" follow instructions to wrap bones etc I can feel warmth and passage of energy. These are real physical sensations. Whether they are psychosomatic and transferrable to others via rapport or whether theres a real force I can't say for sure. I do know that I've done enough work on people through instinct to know that something real happens to my patients. Also if I work the energy for about an hour with passion (the opposite of the zen ideal!), my movements will change, flow more and I'm more creative with made up katas. They are faster too.

I'm relating my experience rather than trying to say that a particular definition of qi etc is definitly real. I shy away from "believing" too much. I believe in the sensations I can create in myself and others including tears of joy, chakra throbbing etc. What I don't have a belief for, is the "explanations". I don't have any. I can however teach some of the skills quite quickly and then leave you to figure out your own stuff :-).

Note:I'm not promoting my services as they are NOT for sale. I use them when I meet people who feel like letting me work on them.

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#285617 - 09/15/06 06:44 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: soulfiremage]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Did the reiki training add anything to what you were already able to do? Have you succesfully taught what you do to others too, or do you think that people need to be 'attuned' like in reiki (personally I think that's just a load of [censored] made up in order to maximise profit)?

I'm also curious about how you go about to do it..

-Is extensive imagining things happening involved, or do you think that is more of a tool to help the untrained mind do what it does not yet know any other way for?

-From what you write I gather that movement affects the sensation too. In what way? Is it stretchy movements, or just movement series that activate muscles and get your blood circulating? Or something else?

-How do you breathe? Is a certain kind of breathing required so that you can do it, or is just any breathing good. This in particular intrests me as there seem to be a myriad of different breathing techniques out there. Some say you should breathe with your chest, some say with your stomach. Some say you should take long calm breaths, while others tell you to squeeze out the air using your abdominal muscles, and then letting your lungs fill by themselves (I do this sometimes and I have to say it feels pretty good - though not when you are hungry ).
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

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#285618 - 09/15/06 06:56 AM Re: Constructive reflection on qi - no trolls plea [Re: Zyranyth]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
Firstly for me Reiki wasn't real or useful. If others had positive experience, great though I suspect that those individuals were actually empowered a little through self belief rather than the intrinsic reality of reiki.

I could do what I do before reiki.

Breathing can influence it, especially when you close various muscles in the in breath in particular. However I can move energy whilst holding my breath and sitting dead still.

Yes, the imagination is the key along with your emotions and your intention. At least that is my experience so far. Deliberate use, intensity of desire to make it work seem to be essential. Suspension of questioning whilst working with it is important also.

Most new age things I've seen go on about visualising stuff etc. Most folks can't visualise well enough to do anything more than meditate with it. There are exceptions. However the easiest way is to go with tactile imaging and use visual stuff as an extra help.

Tactile imaging, brief explanation. Stroke a finger joint or a toe joint. Pay attention to two things. Firstly the feeling of the joint on your finger. Then also the sensation in the skin and bone being stroked. Next, stroke the joint again or the one next to it (or any other that you feel like!) but with imagination. Feel yourself using an "imaginary hand and finger", imagine the movement and receiving the sensation. keep it up until you get a small tingle in that joint. Move to each joint in your hands and feet until they feel warm and tingly. If you got this far, you can logically see the rest of the joints can be worked in this way. Along with stroking inside and through the arms and legs, the spine, also the lips and mouth. You can then proceed onto wrapping the joints etc.

Get that working and come back to me with questions if you wish. Alternatively get Mantak Chia's Iron shirt chi kung and use tactile imaging to follow the instructions. Or any other energy work you like. :-) Let me know if you make stuff happen.

Finally note that the perineum, the solar plexus and the throat are "locks" used in yoga, and also apply in chi kung and other chinese energy systems. Get a feel for these, regardless of explanation because these will become real important :-). Skipping through real quick cos I was about to go out and do a workout :-).

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#285619 - 09/15/06 12:18 PM To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Zyranyth]
senseihonor Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 62
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hello -

I have a question regarding qi. I *think* I'm experiencing qi when I do Kobudo or Kata and particularly when I run (I'm a distance runner). I get a very large, intense tingling, usually starting at the back, or sides of my head. As I breath and focus my attention more, I can (sometimes) direct the sensation to a particular part of my body. At this point, I feel warmth, and sometimes a feeling of greater energy. It is a very euphoric feeling for me and I just grin when this feeling starts flooding my body.

My immediate Sensei does not discuss qi, although some other Sensei's within our organization practice Tai Chi and have made reference to qi. I've been doing a little bit of reading on Internal Martial Arts, but so far, I haven't found anything that describes what I'm experiencing.

Am I just oxygen deprived and my body is telling me to breath more , is this qi and I don't know what - or how to work with it, or is this just some weird phenomena

Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

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#285620 - 09/15/06 12:27 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: senseihonor]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:


Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.




Get a pace maker... sounds like you might need one! If some of the instructors are studying Tai Chi why not ask if you could go along to a few of there classes? Practice and experience what they are talking about first hand. Just remember not to get to sucked in with the whole chi thing, most people who talk about it are total nutjobs. Always keep an open healthily skeptical question mind, especially on matters such as this!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#285621 - 09/15/06 12:34 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Gavin]
Zyranyth Offline
Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Finland
Quote:

chi thing, most people who talk about it are total nutjobs.




Lol. Thanks. :P
No but seriously. I'm just trying to statisfy my curiosity here.
_________________________
"Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it. "

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#285622 - 09/15/06 02:09 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: Gavin]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
Gavin,
Whilst I'm not a proponent of "chi balls" and strange enhancements in combat from "chi" or "energy", I am certainly more than willing to demonstrate my ability to use what I can use for healing to you.

If you ever come over to Portishead just outside Bristol, I'll be happy to buy a coffee or beer and hence demonstrate healing directly :-). You can then decide if I fit the nutjob description or not LOL.

Btw, given the number of people hoping to sell secret "healing", "energy" or various new age nonsenses (usually tied in with pseudoscience), your point of view is wholly understandable. I am in the unfortunate position of being in posession of a minor gift or something that happens to be indistinguishable from such frauds, unless it's used face to face.

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#285623 - 09/15/06 02:15 PM Re: To Qi or Not to Qi [Re: senseihonor]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
Euphoria can be generated by accident with fast deep breathing, especially following exercise. However, if you can produce intense sensations (heat, tingling) in the spine whilst maintaining a normal unstressed breathing pattern then you might be onto the same sensations that I get when doing Kundalini work or when I use the microcosmic orbit.

I have measured my brainwave activity (fairly roughly with a waverider jnr) at the forehead and also tested GSR when moving energy as compared to normal. Also blood pressure tests I've used. Whatever the explanation for the energy work I can do is, it certainly influences brainwaves, galvonic skin response and spikes blood pressure within the space of ten seconds. No it's not a random double blind controlled trial, just a careful 2 trial home mess about to find what happens, but it was interesting to find physical results.

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