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#285022 - 09/12/06 05:35 AM Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring
Mr_Moogle Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 63
Hello. Um, just asking some questions regarding the sparring rules in Kyokushin and some other general info about sparring (just curious lol). Please bear with me.

I'm aware that Kyokushin karate or its derivatives are full contact. However, just mainly focusing on the origin, Kyokushinkai Karate, do they generally allow low kicks, or kicks below the waist (exception of the groin area)?

Secondly, I know you're allowed to kick to the face, but are you allowed to knee (with 100% strength) to the face? As in grab and knee, for example?

Thirdly, are you allowed to elbow below the head (I'm pretty sure you're generally not allowed to elbow the head and neck)? Like let's say, on the shoulders or ribs?

Now the following are about the general rules of sparring.

I classify the type of sparring as follows: No/Light Contact, Semi Contact and then Full contact in terms of rules.

No/Light Contact I know you are not allowed to hit the face. But with semi contact (let's assume you're using gloves), how hard are you allowed to hit? Just a tap? With semi-contact, are you allowed to use low kicks?

Sorry for asking a lot of questions and if I'm bothering you lol. Please reply as soon as possible, thanks.
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Speed, power, technique and mentality... They are the four aspects of fighting...

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#285023 - 09/12/06 07:42 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: Mr_Moogle]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I'm not sure about the exact rules regarding kyokushin or if they are universal from school to school,but as for general sparring rules it is strictly dependant on the place you train.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#285024 - 09/12/06 08:02 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: Mr_Moogle]
skycatcher Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 26
When I trained in Kenpo it was full contact but you were expected to control your attacks.

1) Keep it above the obi
2) You are allowed to contact with the head, but just enough to let the other person know they've just been hit
3) Any dangerous techniques such as taking out the knee, elbow to the neck, etc etc as you've mentioned are not allowed. You could however perform shutos to the neck etc etc

Basically for us full contact was just that - full contact but not necessarily full force. If it was a body blow you could hit pretty hard but the head attacks should never be full force since you are not in a street fight, but training with a partner.

All in all: Hit hard enough to where it would cause pain so that they would remember it, but not hard enough to cause injury. Control is the key.

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#285025 - 09/12/06 10:52 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: Mr_Moogle]
Kysogkram Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 137
Loc: Denmark
I train in a Kyokushin offshoot, so our rules might not be exactly the same, but to my knowledge they're very similar. When you say sparring do you mean training in the dojo with your fellow karatekas or do you mean tournaments etc. as well?

So to answer your questions:

1. Yes, you're allowed to kick below the waist, also use sweeps and whatnot. Naturally groin kicks and kicks towards knees, etc. are not allowed.

2. As far as kicking towards the head goes, you're only allowed to use circular kicks towards the head. We all want to stay pretty don't we? . So to answer your question, no, I very much doubt you'd be allowed to grab a persons head and knee it. There are however tournaments where any kick/knee/leg technique towards the face goes.

3. Well I'm actually not sure about this one, but I'd say yes, you can elbow the body if you want. Doesn't seem very practical to me though.

Overall this might vary depending on school and whatnot. Generally when sparring, we're all trying to look out for each other.

However sometimes we do train with head contact. This is done with MMA type gloves on and pulled punches towards the face, and we try to aim high towards the forehead, so as not to mess each other up entirely.
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meh.

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#285026 - 09/12/06 11:42 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: Kysogkram]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Basically, I agree with Kysogkram. Pretty much the way it goes.

I also think that people have a strange view of what full contact means or can mean. Just as in any martial art style that allows full contact, you are not out there to "blow away" the opponent with strikes.

Look at boxing or MT for instance, in training yes there's contact and full range of movment, but the intent is not to go out there and hurt the opponent in training (then you are too banged up for the "real" fight).

Similarly, in styles of karate that extoll full contact, you are allowed to hit--and occasionally hit hard, but you are there to help each other improve and not there to send each other to the hospital (even though I have gone a few times ).

-B

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#285027 - 09/22/06 07:58 PM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: Mr_Moogle]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
I'm starting in Kyokushin soon...from my understanding, most everything towards the body is allowed (save the really dangerous stuff) and kicks to the head are allowed. Other than that I'm not sure of specifics.
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Gladiators, I solute you.

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#285028 - 09/25/06 11:12 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: TheFinalOption]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
take a look at Fighting Black Kings, fantastic fight scenes in the movie, to include the dojo kumite.

Mike
_________________________
First Degree White Belt

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#285029 - 09/25/06 11:01 PM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: Mr_Moogle]
nelsdogg Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
As I am only a junior, I cannot be sure of the exact rules of Kyokushin kumite but as I understand it:
- Full-contact
- No punches to the face
- No elbows or knees
- No kicks to the groin
- Generally, no gloves are worn
- All kicks to the head are allowed
- No grappling?

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#285030 - 09/26/06 02:50 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: nelsdogg]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
So are you in or getting into Kyokushin, nelsdogg?

I wasn't sure what you meant by being a junior...
_________________________
Gladiators, I solute you.

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#285031 - 09/26/06 02:57 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: kensai1]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
And kensai1, I shall have to check out that movie...I love martial arts movies. Everything from van damme flicks to Ong Bok (my favorite.) But it sounds like a documentary, which is even better. I just hope I can find it somewhere online, or at least a dvd (I've only seen it on vhs and I don't have a vhs player. Pity.)
_________________________
Gladiators, I solute you.

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#285032 - 09/26/06 03:25 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: TheFinalOption]
nelsdogg Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Hey TheFinalOption,

Yes, I currently practise Kyokushin Karate and I am a 2nd kyu (brown belt), due for grading for a black belt within a month.

I'm under 18 so I am not allowed to participate in full contact fighting.

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#285033 - 09/26/06 09:23 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: nelsdogg]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
the final option,
the cool thing about fighting black kings is it has kancho joko ninomiya in it training for competition. he did not compete because he slashed his hand with a katana. kancho ninomiya helped developed ashihara karate here in the states. then he started his own schools called enshin karate (the honbu is denver, co). he also started the sabaki challenge.

i brought up the fighting black kings because it shows jiyu kumite in the dojo and the competition excellent. some things change in the dojo, but i think most stay the same.

fighting black kings is a documentary about a kyokushin competition in japan that allows other styles of ma to compete. it also shows the various disciplines training for the tournament. kungfu pretty much gets decimated.

mike
_________________________
First Degree White Belt

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#285034 - 09/26/06 03:38 PM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: kensai1]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
He slashed his hand with a katana? Man, he's lucky he didn't just chop the thing off completely...katanas are serious business...

As for kung fu getting decimated...I've seen it happen before...but it seems to happen more often in high-level sparring, where the karate guys are really good. It just seems like a really flashy system like kung fu is kindof at a disadvantage fighting a simpler, more to-the-point karate system. Not that I have anything against kung fu- I almost got KO'ed by a kung fu guy once. Me and my silly clear belt
_________________________
Gladiators, I solute you.

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#285035 - 09/26/06 03:58 PM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: TheFinalOption]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
First, I think one has to be open to the reason for the movie, the Fighting Black Kings. It was a marketing instrument in many ways similar to an info-mercial.

That said, Kyokushin is a good style and Mas Oyama was basically expressing his idea of hard hitting karate and wanted to demonstrate this concept with respect to the point tournaments that were the matches de jour in the karate world at that time.

Also, Kung Fu was dramatized in a poor showing for a reason. The selection of these Kung Fu practioners does not reflect the adeptness that others practioners show. Again, healthy marketing. Would you show someone else's product to be equivalent or better than your own?

As for the demo with the sword. That is crap and would/should never be attempted by someone. It's a demo and the sword weilder does marginally slow down as he makes his cut toward the karate-ka.

What the Fighting Black Kings does have for it is showcasing early Kyokushin. BTW, the technical abilities and movements of the higher level modern Kyokushin player far surpaases what is seen on that video.

-B

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#285036 - 09/26/06 04:20 PM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: butterfly]
kensai1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 52
Loc: Ohio
hi butterfly,
i totally agree with you it was very much a movie on marketing kyokushin but it was highly entertaining for me.

as for the kungfu guy it was really sad, and i agree with you there are much better disciplines in kungfu that would have faired better. i have dabbed a bit in wahlum kungfu, so i definately know what you mean.

i apologize i did not mean to get into the discussions of movie documentaries. i just was to pointing out that i remember the dojo kumite scenes in the movie and how they might relate. but on the quick discussion can you get budo: the art of killing on dvd yet.

thanks
mike
_________________________
First Degree White Belt

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#285037 - 09/26/06 05:40 PM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: kensai1]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Hey, Kensai!

No problem on my side. I posted my take on this video for the simple reason that some folk viewing this might imbue it with more importance than it deserves.

I have practiced with a few Kyokushin people in my time and they don't go out and bust heads for fun and sport, but they do practice well and I appreciate their take on karate.

However, some might look at the movie and feel awkard about what is being presented or take exception to it...especially if comparing this to their own styles.

I just wanted to bring a friendly reminder that not all videos are there as impartial expressions of a particular art, but serve the purpose of embellishment, or at least high lighting certain aspects of a style over others.

-B

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#285038 - 10/14/06 01:24 AM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: butterfly]
Emeraldstorm Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 1
Hey guys,

Does anyone know of any Kyokushin schools in Ohio? I searched yellowpages but that was horribly futile. Thanks for any info!!

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#285039 - 10/14/06 08:16 PM Re: Questions about Kyokushin/others sparring [Re: kensai1]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
No, Ninomiya did compete and took third place.

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