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#284018 - 09/12/06 07:40 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: WuXing]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
I wouldn't say time, enlightenment, rationalization, logic, religion, etc are illusions...they are just tools. if in each incremental phase of using these tools brings a sentient closer to realization, then they ultimately no longer need the tools to 'see'.

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#284019 - 09/12/06 08:20 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Loving this thread, BTW.

I've met people that were clearly enlightened, I mean just shining like lights, and yet had no clue. Perhaps seeing their 'Buddha nature'? I'm of the camp that there is a pre-process that goes on before any epiphanies occur...that people are unaware of the minute changes that lead up to major worldview changes. Inherently enlightened...but unaware...unawake. So, when an epiphany occurs, when the 'bottom of the bucket' gives way...that this becomes clear to the individual.

Up till then, the illusions/tools are part of the world we perceive. Using these tools, we build our internal world...and lose sight of the horizon.

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#284020 - 09/12/06 08:23 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Quote:

I agree...but still leaves the thinkers in the audience stumped.




When will they allow a tree to be a tree? The leaves rustle and they jump to chop it down. This is why they're stumped. Rustling and stillness are the same.

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#284021 - 09/12/06 08:26 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: harlan]
oldman Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Some people believe I am a tool.

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#284022 - 09/12/06 08:35 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: oldman]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
So...another illusion to ignore?

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#284023 - 09/12/06 08:48 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: harlan]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
No, I'm pretty much a tool.

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#284024 - 09/12/06 08:59 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: oldman]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I'm not much of a tool user.

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#284025 - 09/12/06 09:24 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: harlan]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
I am a user and a tool.

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#284026 - 09/12/06 10:37 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: WuXing]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
philosophy by itself is nice and all, but to deny some realities of our own lives doesn't make it a particularly useful philosophy to me.

an example would be trying to deny the use of mental constructs to assist in life, yet conveintly taking for granted and not addressing the constructs in which that denial is based upon.

it would be self-defeating to say: "logic is not a perfect representation of reality, so therefore, I won't use it."

whoops - but you needed it to come to that conclusion.

"tool" indeed. lol

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#284027 - 09/12/06 10:43 AM Re: Gradual and Sudden Enlightenment [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
But who said that Enlightenment was useful?

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