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#283527 - 09/05/06 11:39 AM High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling!
Eternal_Student Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 59
Ed Morris suggested this as a discussion topic (high kicks, effective or not in REAL combat).

I would have to put myself squarely on the "don't do it" side!

1st: They take longer to fire out (& especially to pull back in), leaving the person throwing one open to counter-attack.

2nd: While a round-house to the head can be devastating (I've seen quite a few PRIDE & UFC matches where they caused a KO)- there are a multitude of other techniques that can be just as devastating. (a stomp kick to the side of the knee- which breaks an opponent's leg- comes to mind)

3rd: It may be difficult to ask your attacker to wait a minute while you warm up your hammies to kick him in the jaw.

I've got lots of ideas on this subject, & would love to hear your input, people!

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#283528 - 09/05/06 03:54 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: Eternal_Student]
MikeC Offline
Dragon

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 130
Loc: Kingston Ontario
Why would you risk exposing yourself with a high kick when you could take their legs out: or kick them in Kenteki. Use of knees also comes to mind.There are better ways to use your legs and in a real situation showing off is not smart.

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#283529 - 09/05/06 04:02 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: Eternal_Student]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
I find there is not a simple answer.

I was once discussing this with an indonesian martial artist, and was explaining the superiority of isshinryu kicking, being lower to the ground and harder to stop. Before I finished talking he exploded back into a shotokan front stance and finished by putting his foot in my mouth, with no warmup or leading key motion.

As a general rule I think lower kicks make more sense, but honestly the tam tui'e ones of 1"-3" off the ground may be the best for that <GRIN>

But depending on one's level of execution, one's method of conditioning, one's style of practice, say northern shaolin systems, kicking (or any technique) is nothing more than an issue of correct timing, leading an opponent to set up an opening, and then interrupting the opponent appropriately.

I believe in the lower leg focused kicking of Isshinryu, but I also belive in people who define the boundries by their training.
_________________________
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#283530 - 09/05/06 04:27 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: Eternal_Student]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#283531 - 09/05/06 04:52 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: Eternal_Student]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
The more something is practiced the more effective it becomes. I wouldn't say not do do it,but if the opportunity presents itself then why not do it?
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#283532 - 09/05/06 05:00 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: Eternal_Student]
Xibalba Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Lansing, MI, USA
The right technique for the situation could be anything. If a high kick just "happens" (without thought, instinctively), and it works (i.e., saves your be-hind), then great. I, however would not want to enter a self-defense situation consciously planning on doing high kicks.

On second thought, that goes for any technique. Ideally, one would not 'plan' on anything in a SD situation. The correct response should just 'happen', right?

Mike

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#283533 - 09/05/06 05:28 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: MattJ]
Eternal_Student Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 59
Matt:

I'm certainly not debating the devastating effects of a head kick. However, the video you refer to shows them in controlled Muay Thai competition.

When you eliminate MANY potential target areas from your choices of potential targets (groin, knee, etc), the head kick certainly becomes more appealing.

ALSO, when you make grabbing illegal (as in Muay Thai), you make a head kick harder to defend.

In real world fighting, it is simply not very "economical" (considering the amount of damage done to an opponent can be matched or exceeded by other easier to reach targets + you do open yourself up to a vicious counter-attack with your groin area exposed).

Also, I certainly don't argue that there ARE some martial arts practitioners who can perform head kicks with tremendous speed & efficiency, I would argue that they could strike other (lower) targets (that are just as devastating or more) with even more speed & efficiency than the high kicks.

Also, they may not have to fear ME counter-attacking their lightning fast high kicks, but another martial artist AT THEIR OWN SKILL LEVEL would obviously have a better chance of counter-attacking them successfully.

I am not arguing that different martial artists don't have different capabilities when it comes to high kicks.

I am arguing that the same martial artist can strike lower targets faster & more efficiently (with AT LEAST the same level of effectiveness) than he can high targets.

Besides, with that in mind, if you are not sure of your street fighting opponent's skill level (which you almost never are in a real fight), why not do the most "economical" technique?

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#283534 - 09/05/06 05:34 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: MattJ]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Cool Vid. I just don't like the matches when they can kick their opponent while down.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#283535 - 09/05/06 05:42 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: Eternal_Student]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
While I actually agree with the thrust of your argument, I think the MT match is a good indicator of the possible utility of high kicks.

Quote:

When you eliminate MANY potential target areas from your choices of potential targets (groin, knee, etc), the head kick certainly becomes more appealing.

ALSO, when you make grabbing illegal (as in Muay Thai), you make a head kick harder to defend.




Just to be picky, MT does allow kicks to the thigh (inside and outside), and kicks can be caught for sweeps and trips.

But I do agree that high kicks on the street, for the most part, are a bad idea.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#283536 - 09/05/06 09:10 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfilling! [Re: MikeC]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Just yesterday I finished a work out in my garage, and was tired but I thought "lets throw one last kick" I through my round house kick (head hight) and my supporting foot slipped and I fell to the ground.

If I did the same thing on the street I would of been in a lot of trouble.
_________________________
YAY pepto bismol! No... not... kryptonite

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