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#283557 - 09/08/06 08:36 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: crablord]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
crab,

How effective someone is kicking with shoes on depends on how they train, not just the Chinese styles I've mentioned. While I originally was taught bare foot, and most of my students, except the older ones, still practice that way, we have regular outdoor training where shoes are mandatory too.

I also know of some karate clubs that only practice in shoes.

Shoes don't really slow kicks down, and using the dynamics of the shod foot, it actually enhances some kicks. Front kicks people are conditioned not to throw because of elbows dropping on them are much easier when the foot's protected.

The shod foot also provides more precise striking edges, and more intense pain.

In fact in the US, the state of Massachusetts considers a shod foot a weapon and its use in fights is a chargable offense, and I've seen reports of fights where those charges were included in the chargable offenses.
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#283558 - 09/08/06 08:53 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: Victor Smith]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
We used to always train in shoes. For two reasons. One was so our toes did not get twisted in the puzzle mats. And the other was because if you are in a confrontation of some kind, its a good habit to be able to kick effectively in shoes. Your attacker is not going to wait for you to remove your shoes. I have a size 13 shoe so sometimes wearing shoes is a great way of adding some weight to my legs. Great for strength training.
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#283559 - 09/08/06 08:55 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: Victor Smith]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
what about people who dont train in shoes? ive been to lots of karate schools and ive never seen a class train in shoes, normally its just the gi and barefoot. Im just saying that for people who train without the shoes they are going to find it very hard to pull off even a good roundhouse to the head. By the way what ma do you teach?
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#283560 - 09/08/06 09:47 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: crablord]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

what about people who dont train in shoes? ive been to lots of karate schools and ive never seen a class train in shoes, normally its just the gi and barefoot. Im just saying that for people who train without the shoes they are going to find it very hard to pull off even a good roundhouse to the head. By the way what ma do you teach?




Well Mr Crablord when you train at home on your bag? perhaps in shoes? trainers?

Self defence in the street means?



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#283561 - 09/08/06 10:33 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: crablord]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Sir crab,

Any martial artists abilities are a function of how they train. I understand your concern when one's practice does not include shoes, but that's a school's individual choice after all. Perhaps the okinawan traditions about bare feet came from wearing sandals, and being easier to move stepping out of them? I've never seen the why documented.

As to which arts I instruct and practice.

Isshinryu Karate - younger students practice bare foot most of the time, except for specific training, older students wear footware as appropriate for their circumstances, and they also get outdoor training where shoes are manditory.

Yang Tai Chi Chaun. I've practiced it wearing shoes for 30 years.

My studies in the Chinese arts always were wearing shoes.

My studies in other arts (Shotokan, Shorin Ryu, Goju Ryu, etc.) on the whole were barefoot in the dojo, and outdoor training was always wearing shoes.

I've had instructors (and several students) who could pull off a roundhouse kick to the head in any circumstances, but invariably, their skill aside, they would most often choose another response for tactical reasons.
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#283562 - 09/08/06 10:44 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: Victor Smith]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Oh I see. In our style noone wears shoes at all. And I do train on the heavy bag most nights with shoes, but I still dont see how its practical to attempt high kicks with heavy footwear on for most. Although front kicks seem to be unaffected by shoes. Not to say I dont see what your getting at, but I just dont think shoes and high kicks mix.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#283563 - 09/08/06 11:02 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: crablord]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Oh I see. In our style noone wears shoes at all. And I do train on the heavy bag most nights with shoes, but I still dont see how its practical to attempt high kicks with heavy footwear on for most. Although front kicks seem to be unaffected by shoes. Not to say I dont see what your getting at, but I just dont think shoes and high kicks mix.




Mr Crab lord

Yes they might depending on the person.
In the old days(and even to day) Japanese karate ka would train with an iron/ metal sort of sandal called a tetsugeta. They weighed about five kilograms each.

I have at some time seen photos of them practicing high kicks with these iron shoes.
Your average shoe doesnt weigh that much.
But I wouldnt recommend any body to do this kind of training with out advise.



Edited by ANDY44 (09/08/06 11:04 AM)

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#283564 - 09/08/06 03:32 PM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: crablord]
jonnyboxcutter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320
We don’t do this too often but at my school we have street cloths classes for this very reason. What ever you walk in with is what your uniform is. The GM does not give any advanced warning for these classes either so you may be in your work cloths or in shorts – the only ones that get an exception is if one of the girls walks in, in a dress (she gets to put her pant on under it). The best part is the looks every one gets when they find out…

-JBC-
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#283565 - 09/11/06 12:22 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: crablord]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
I never trained in shoes and every time I had a confrontation oops I had shoes on. One sec. Wait! I need to take off my shoes so I can kick you in the head! Well I never said that or took off my shoes but I have kicked people in the head with shoes on. The best one or I like to think the worst one was a round kick to the head with combat boots on. I almost killed the guy. Not with the kick but with the throw after he got up a few seconds later.


Edited by BulldogTKD (09/11/06 12:24 AM)

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#283566 - 09/11/06 05:48 AM Re: High kicks... look great, but less fulfillin [Re: ANDY44]
PaulHart Offline
banned member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 192
Loc: The Real
Yes, in a traditional Dojo this falls into Hojo Undo, or Supplementary Training. It is still done in very traditional Dojo's. You can see the Tetsugeta at this Tsunami Dojo Web Page as well as the other equipment used for this training. I do not do high kicks, not because I cant, but because they do not make sense in a combat situation. However, what would be the purpose of doing high kicks if you could not use them no matter the clothing?
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