People have been posting videos of all sorts of styles, but very few of the weapon forms. The staff, of whatever size, is the weapon almost every culture has in common. Post videos of various staff styles to compare here.
These are all Long Staff forms (Bo)

Okinawan Kobudo
Shuji no Kon
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-660150175740904100&q=kobudo&hl=en

Ufugusuku no Kon bunkai
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2844893345094632988&q=kobudo&hl=en

Choun no Kon (rty to ignore the music)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6896457208527856597&q=kobudo&hl=en

Yammani Ryu, Sakugawa no Kon (a little grainy)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5472760035365269476&q=bojutsu&hl=en

Japanese Koryu

Katori Shinto Ryu
comparison of the same kata demonstrated by students of two different teachers.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3611713097133357413&q=martial+arts+staff&hl=en

Chinese

BaXian Gun, Eight Immortals Staff
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6204755941355219769&q=martial+arts+staff&hl=en

Modern Wushu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycmYyRYyCOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZS5y-f5Wz0

Pigua Zhang Feng Mo Gun, Crazy Devil Staff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ipwVvmAYQ

Pap Kar Moon Long Staff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7hf1rqnsi4

No one has anything to share? No comments, or videos, or anything? Is the staff a primary part of anyone's training?

I'm sorry mate, I've been too busy this past week to have a look at all those videos you've kindly put links to but I will try to have a look this week when I get a bit of free time.

Hopefully they will be good!

Have had a look at some.

No 2 is like our basic bo drill
the others all have elements of the bo kata that we have in our syllabus.


Japanese Koryu

Katori Shinto Ryu
comparison of the same kata demonstrated by students of two different teachers.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3611713097133357413&q=martial+arts+staff&hl=en


This one above looks like bokken and jo drills rather than bo. The handling of the jo is identical in parts to the 12 jo/bokken drills that we practice.

That's interesting. Katori shinto ryu was founded in the middle of the 15th century, one of the oldest Japanese schools. If they are the "originals", their staff technique may be where some of the jo techniques came from. Muso Gonnosuke, who was said to have been inspired to create the jo techniques after his defeat by Miyamoto Musashi, was a student of the shinto school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenshin_Shoden_Katori_Shinto-ryu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_(weapon)

The staff is one of my favourite weapons and the only one I extensively work with. For various reasons I've ended up just dabbling over the years with different styles however the staff is something I pick up regularly and spin round and find things to do with. Sadly I can't locate anyone else local to me (Bristol, UK) who also works with the staff (any style). Currently I've got 2 red oak staffs and a graphite screw in half version (just acquired, great for practicing awkward tricks).

Was searching for dense woods to have a new staff made from-this strictly would be for endurance/strength training rather than sparring. Thanks for the video links, I've been after media on the subject for a while.

One thing I do like is to practice "tricks", spins, passing behind my back stuff like that. I'm not practicing to be a top staff fighter, I just enjoy the feel of using it, spinning it and doing moves in general. If anyone's got any info they can point me towards regarding such I'd be immensely grateful.

Apologies for not replying earlier. I'm not qualified to comment, really, as I am a beginner and only trained in one style (Matayoshi Kobudo). Personally, I found the Okinawan videos most interesting, and always enjoy watching Japanese Koryu! Choun no kon was the only kata I was familiar with, and I thought it was done nice and crisp. However, I've been taught the 't-stance' move differently...with a higher stance/more power.

Staff is my primary interest...but right now is suffering due to a shoulder injury. Most of the katas I learn are heavily 'right handed'...so now I am trying to work the traditional katas from the left side.

Quote:

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No one has anything to share? No comments, or videos, or anything? Is the staff a primary part of anyone's training?

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Posting on here left me with some inspiration for my next google search :-). So for anyone else into throwing these about and doing tricks and forms here's my contribution.

http://www.weapontricks.com/weapons_bo.html

I think a lot of practicioners are learning MA from a non-utilitarian viewpoint...and when they start to learn weapons...they bring that POV to weapons.

I looked over the bo videos, and tried to be unbiased (or maybe I'm still green/ignorant)...but I see baton-twirling. Or, were they meant to facilitate hand switching exercises?

The spinning "tricks" have the use of making you more familiar with the staff, I think that's about it. Some spins are also components of classical Chinese forms. It does enable you to change directions, switch hands, and generally intimidate and hold at bay someone who might want to get close to you. For me, the spinning is more about learning to handle the staff, becoming so familiar with it that it moves without you needing to consciously aware of how it moves...the way you move your arm or leg.

I regard the tricks and spins in the same way. The better I am at handling the staff the less likely I am to drop it and the more options I have if I were by some strange chance to actually use it for real (the most unlikely possibility ever!).

The only thing we do to acclimate ourselves to the bo is basic hand switching, flipping (keeping hands on bo...sliding), and some stuff that could basically be termed as warmups/basics for kata. Since there are no twirls in our system...we don't use it. Of course, it is a rather pragmatic system.

k.i.s.s.
basics, basics, basics.

There is only one move I can think of in our kata that has only one hand on the bo. I think it is Sushi no kon (forgive the spelling and I might have the kata name mixed up as well). It is a one armed block, of the rear leg, in long stance. Of course, one is using one's body/frame and arm for stability. But frankly, I'd be scr*wed...because that is a really weak stance/technique with me.

Cardinal rule: both hands on the bo at all times.

Harlan

I think it may be another kata you're thinking of. I've been introduced to several Matayoshi kobudo versions of Suishi no Kun and I have not been shown any one-handed movements. For that matter I have not been shown any one handed movements as part of the Matayoshi syllabus for bo.

Like you said “Both hands on the bo at all times.”

Yes...well...ahem...I do have a few items 'in the way' of a two-handed grip for that technique.

*snort*

I'm not talking about twirling like a baton here. Look at this instructional video for basic staff techniques in a Chinese method.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1885335810447276611&q=martial+arts+staff&hl=en

well endowed eh?

Jim,
This is an exceptional videoo and I'm posting the entire series linked there on the kung fu section.

bump

Not good video quality, but recent youtube additions of private/home tape. Matayoshi kobudo.

Tsuken No Kun

Sushi no kun

More staff videos have appeared!

Hung Gar Eight trigram staff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG5wJYSWa5Y&mode=related&search=

Choy Li Fut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlAHHP-8wXM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qAc2e4js-s&mode=related&search=

Lau Gar rat tail staff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vEtJH6b0v0&mode=related&search=

looks to be during the late 80's or so.

bo vs. sai demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8XEu6ZpgYs

Shaolin staff work

In Chinese historical documents and literature, Shaolin martial arts was known especially for its famous staff techniques

a couple different monks performing
Yin Shou Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up2iJryOFYc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNfd3fPF6e8&feature=related

36 form staff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tlHmh29FYo

Here's a video demonstrating a few martial applications from a form known as "feng mo gun" ("crazy demon staff"). This particular staff form from pigua-quan is indigenous to the city of Tianjin, and Zhou Jingxuan, the guy teaching it, is the the master I studied under when I was there.

FENG MO GUN

I hope the guy who posted the video (an amazing Israeli who's been training with Mr.Zhou pretty much everyday for the past seven years and whose skill I really envy) will post a video of the full form soon. It's one COOL form.

Just found a full video of the form. Here you go:

FENG MO GUN (full form)

Enjoy!

That is an awesome form. It's the same video I have in the very first post in this thread.

Whoops!
How could I miss that?

Awesome form indeed. I'm sooo learning it next time I go to Tianjin.

I wanted to comment on the two hands on the staff thing. One hand on the staff works just fine for techniques where the other end is braced against your back. There is also useful one handed techniques where you hold the staff close to the end with one hand and make long sweeps (do not have a ridged wrist with this). There is also a series of attacks and defenses where one end of the staff is planted in the ground and the other is cupped behind the staff (staff is vertical).

Here's a couple bo kata that I did for my shodan test. It was a very long test, so you'll have to excuse my fading.

Oyadomari No Kon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu-obRjA33U


Chatan Yara No Kon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saF0tlJtFiE


I have a total of 8 kata on youtube - 4 of which are kobudo

Interesting. I haven't been studying Matayoshi kobudo for very long, but it seems to entirely lack a technique I see in your bo katas. The repeated circling...is that technique meant to be a wrap??

Thanks

they're parrys to counter thrusts to the chudan or jyodan area.

My eyes aren't so keen...thought I was seeing circular motion of more than one revolution...and hadn't seen that before.

Shorinjiseisan,very interesting kobudo kata.The first one would not play well for me but the second one(Chatan Yara no Kun)worked very well.It appears to be a version of Tokomine no Kun to me,very small differences.
A funny story:A guy from an American kempo school was at our dojo and demonstrated a bo kata for one of my kobudo sensei.In his kata he did similar circular techniques,when my sensei questioned him about those circles he stated he had been told that technique was to represent"searching in the hay".My sensei replied"Hmm thats odd there's no hay on Okinawa"
I have to agree with Harlan,one circle could parry and throw,trap or redirect the bo.Multiple circles are new to me.
Tom Hodges

There are similar multiple circling actions in my kug fu forms. However we were taught to practice them differently, primarily moving the rear arm while keeping the front hand more fixed (also, the grip is with both hands palm down, instead of one up and one down).
In my experience, the multiple circles happens sometimes as a way to attempt to control the opponent's staff until you can make a decisive strike.
For example, your opponent thrusts in at you, and you respond by deflecting and circling out of the way. At the bottom of the circle, you feel him prepare to swing back up at your head, so you continue the circle deflection down again. This could go on until you feel him withdraw, or he loses control opening him up for an attack.
This isn't a great description, it's something you sort of have to feel. It's like sticky hand sparring with a staff, where you use contact with the opponents staff to read their intention and follow them into an appropriate action.

So, basically a wrap.

If that's what you want to call it, sure

After the first circle how do you know who is parrying who?After the first circle you are helping the opponent target yourself straight down the middle so to speak.If you are parrying in this fashion of circling the tip of the opponents bo what is to keep him from striking you with the other end?This is if it is bo against bo.If it is your bo against a set of sai or tonfa for example your bo is occupied while your opponent is free to attack with the second weapon.If you practice weapons kumite you will see how fast things happen,this circling is not likely to happen with a desired outcome.
Pretty for show but not effective technique.
Tom Hodges

I didnt watch the oyodomari no kun, but I agree with Harley that the Chatan yara no kun bears striking similarities to the Tokumine no kun that we study minus the multicircular wraps.

Well, whatever the technique is called, or it's surmised purpose, it is intrigueingly different and something new for me. Thanks, ShorinjiSeisan, for posting it...and making for some interesting Friday conversation.

You don't do it unless it's appropriate. It would obviously only be appropriate against another staff or other long pole weapon, like a spear. That's what most staff techniques were designed to deal with, I believe.
You deflect their weapon down when it is thrust at you. If they use that motion to continue their attack by circling up to strike you, you maintain contact with the weapon to control and circle it down again. If you manage to trap their weapon down at some point, or otherwise make them lose control or pause, then you strike. If they do something else to attack you, like bring around the other end, then you react acordingly.
Alternatively, you may just be reacting to repeated thrust attacks (which are easy to deliver in rapid succession).

I see the forms as a representation of a strategy, not a technique to be repeated verbatim. In other words, the form may have you performing five circles in a row, this does not mean you must always do five circles in a row. You do as many as you need to...maybe one, maybe ten. The form simply addresses the possibility that you might have to do more than one circle before countering.

Interesting discussion. This is good... I think it's important to challenge and question your art.

From what I've been told, Chatan Yara No Kon is an old kata, from the early 1700's. I'm sure that Tokumine No Kon and Chatan Yara No Kon are related... they might be looked at as one being a challenge, and the other a response. I don't know which is the which, or if it even matters.

The Tokumine No Kon in my style has a series of three stepping in, thrusting pokes that are the offensive counterpart movements to the three stepping-back circular parrys that are in Chatan Yara No Kon.

There's another kata called Tenryu No Kon, that has a combination of three in-place thrusting pokes that would be an excellent offensive bunkai for the three parrys that have been the point of discussion. Could be just as simple as that, but I like how this conversation has forced me to look deeper.

I really like what WuXing said in the last post. That's exacly how this combination was described. The succession of circular parrys were like pakua or taichi pushing hands. When learning this kata, we worked with a partner on this.

The kata that I'm currently learning (Hama Higa No Kon) has two series of these parrys as you're walking a quarter circle - just like the pakua pushing hands.

This is great. Now I have a bunch of questions for my sensei.

An interesting bo video.

Shinshinkan Isshin Ryu Karate - Urashi Bo no Kata

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvxbl1EUQL8

Hi Narda,

If you ever make it up to Derry I'd be glad to share it (in part or all) with you. It's the 2nd of our 3 bo kata and is an interesting challenge.

Hi, ill post some jogo do pau videos here:

this one is long but is good, it shows traditional technique and free sparring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cr_12hdKJs

this is a great exercise, even if it is a demonstration we usually do this to practice blocking, with random and powerfull attacks in the chair to not move back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBBmokN6Kg4

same exercise, but you can notice here he is having more difficultly blocking, but its great none the less
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlxWt6sIq3k

here are a set of different videos, even with armor and against multiple adversaries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSDSsereOdg

and some videos i made, from a free practice/get together:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHBX7sZOY7o
if you like you can join the youtube group i created about jogo do pau, hope i can make more videos in the future:
http://www.youtube.com/group/jogodopau

any question just ask,
cheers!

Interesting, I've never seen the Portugese style before. The way the weapon is used reminds me of sword fighting a bit. I wonder if it's methods dervied at all from the two handed sword of the renaissance era.

Hi, that isn't actually possible to prove, but many people believe that.
I was told by my masters that it do probably derives from medieval sword fighting, where the poor people didn't have swords or even the sword techniques for that time swords(not very sharp and relying on smash hits) make alot of sense with jogo do pau techniques of today.
And there are actually some books of that time that resemble in some way the jogo do pau technique, as other European sword fighting books of the time register.
As far as we can trace it was an usual weapon for shepherds, and was used and developed for many years in as a self defense/dueling weapon. Then groups of people started to join and practice together and that made the art really flourish and refine, without losing the real final goal of self defense and effectiveness because it was still used in real situations.
It makes all the sense that the link between medieval sword fight wasn’t broken and that jogo do pau developed from that period’s fighting techniques.

Hello,

here is a nice video of Yamanni-Ryu Shuji-no-kun:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=ypVvFb3TVnI

and two ohter bo katas:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=CmDIEItYzfs
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=yVNf84L0oaQ

at his channel you find some nice bo fighting videos:

http://de.youtube.com/results?search_query=bo+shiai&search_type=&aq=f

Thomas

staff fighting competition example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFucsRevxCw

Thanks for sharing the videos! I love training with the staff!