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#282955 - 10/10/06 06:04 AM Re: american kickboxing [Re: Tom2199]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

I think we have all been to thailand im not disrespecting him im just point out that maybe he is being a little outdated in his info.




I lived in a gym, 24/5 for 3 years. That's a lot of training per week. As taught by the standard curricilum, hand is not emphasized. This is fact, known from experience and training.

Quote:

Maybe this is because he lives in thailand


I live in Thailand, yes. So that makes me out-dated?

Quote:

alot westerners focus largly on boxing skill, some dont- most do. Fact sorry


Most westerners have background in boxing before MT. This is normal because boxing has been in the west for a long time. It's natural people will be more acustomed to boxing than MT. Another fact is that most Thai boxers start at a very young age, thus become more proficient at kicking, whereas western MT boxers start at a later age, thus making punching more natural for them. But sometimes you get good kickers due to different background.

Quote:

if taison doesnt belive in his art anymore then maybe he isnt a 'thai boxer' anymore.



How about you shut up? I've spent a lot more time in this art than you'll ever do in your life. 8 years seems like a short time, but I spent many hours a day not 6-8 hours a week. I've never lost my faith in MT, nor will I ever do. The only flaw to this system will be the practitioner, and it is his duty to improve himself, even if it means going to another system.

No disrespect but If you don't stop attacking me, the Thai people and the art, you won't be saying much in this part of the forum.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#282956 - 10/10/06 09:46 AM Re: american kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 834
Loc: England
Quote:

Most westerners have background in boxing before MT. This is normal because boxing has been in the west for a long time. It's natural people will be more acustomed to boxing than MT. Another fact is that most Thai boxers start at a very young age, thus become more proficient at kicking, whereas western MT boxers start at a later age




thats a generalisation

Quote:

most modern day MT boxer would rather be able to kick hard enough to break bones (idiots).





im not attacking anyone u are the one who was discrediting thai boxing (especially thai style) 'some AKB kickboxers hit as hard if not harder than pro boxers' where exactly are you coming from here? can a thai boxer not hit as hard as a pro boxer? like you say its down to the practitioner, your the one discrediting the thais with your punching theorys not me.

In my opinion and this is only mine, thai boxers are more likley to get proper boxing training. over here in the uk the scene is more closley related to the boxing scene than any other style of kickboxing.

thanks for your time
_________________________
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#282957 - 10/10/06 11:07 AM Re: american kickboxing [Re: Tom2199]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
For your information, another of the few reason that Thai boxers don't really depend on their punches is that they have elbows, knees and clinch in close range. Rarely will you see a boxer get close just to punch. He'll start grappling and use his elbows and knees in close range.

AKB you're not allowed to do that. Even in K-1, no elbows is allowed thus people are forced to use punching techniques in close range. Classical Kickboxing, knees and elbows weren't allowed so you're left with 2 things; kicks and punches.

There's another difference for your info. In AKB you can duck forward; while if you do that in MT, you'll end up getting kneed in the face.

Quote:

can a thai boxer not hit as hard as a pro boxer? like you say its down to the practitioner, your the one discrediting the thais with your punching theorys not me.


I'm not saying Thai boxers can't punch. There is really little need to emphasize it in MT if you play by their rules. I'll list what techniques that is virtually non-existant in MT;

1.Shovel Hook
2. Horizontal hook
3. Lead Hook
4. Corkscrew Hook
5. Backfist
6. Swings

What do they all have in common? Most of them are short-ranged weapons use in close proximity. If you're using the logics of a MT boxer, those techniques could be ignored and replaced with sharp knees and elbows.

I'm not saying Thai boxers doesn't punch hard. They just have a lower range of punching techniques. They however make it up with strong stand-up grappling skills, elbows and knees.

Quote:

over here in the uk


Been said twice in this thread. You're making generalization of UK. I've seen quite a few places there and they all train more or less as the owners were trained in Thailand. Strong kicks and skillful grappling are usually emphasized. If you're doing MT with restriction on elbows and knees, then you're not doing MT. Simple as that.

Quote:

thats a generalisation


Name me one boxer of non-Thai ethnicasy that started MT at the age of 8, lived in a camp and fought to feed his family. From the top of my head, most people I know that practiced MT usually started at a later age around 17. Most Thais that are boxers always start at an earlier age.

Quote:

In my opinion and this is only mine, thai boxers are more likley to get proper boxing training.


If you're training in MT, this isn't a necessity. You might possess 15 different close-range techniques, but they're usually all thwarted when you get into the clinch. Then it's always elbow and knees that decide who's the winner until broken up.

Like I said; it's usually rules that determines the need for training. If you're practicing for K-1, it's not a bright idea to train elbows, but rather to emphasize fists. If you're going for Lumpini and Rajadamnoern, all those punching techniques can be thrown into the carbage can. The only punching you'll be doing in that ring is from medium-long range, rarely in close-range.

Here's some highlights from MT matches here in Thailand;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPfukurJdw
Watch carefully and you'll see most matches; the ko's are from either elbow or kick. There were some impressive punchers in that highlight as well but most of them as you can see, punched from long-range and usually got countered with a kick. (Personally I like the 3rd Ko, throw to ground with follow up.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT-Lkqz_dnk
A clip of Benny Urquidez, one of the best representative of classical american kickboxing. In one match, he punches way more often than any Thai boxer would ever do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZuL7KCupc4&mode=related&search=
Masato of Shooto. A kickboxing style. See how his guard is very western in comparison with the open guard of MT? And the frequency of punches?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3di6HpvWas&mode=related&search=
Far more punching in AKB than MT.

I consider this argument closed. Have a nice day.

-Taison out


Edited by Taison (10/10/06 12:13 PM)
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#282958 - 10/10/06 11:39 AM Re: american kickboxing [Re: Taison]
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 834
Loc: England
Quote:

thats a generalisation


Name me one boxer of non-Thai ethnicasy that started MT at the age of 8, lived in a camp and fought to feed his family. From the top of my head, most people I know that practiced MT usually started at a later age around 17. Most Thais that are boxers always start at an earlier age.

liam harrison, thats why hes peaked at 18-19

i understand where your coming from taison and i didnt really think about the whole no elbow and knee rules in K1 but if you look at bawkaw matches you will see they allow knees aswell? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=einZ010-cb0

im not sure whats going on there but his improved boxing skills show what a complete fighter he is looking as the 2006 champ also with knees allowd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agi_ygP8mP0

i think those close range tools are vital otherwise you will miss opportunities going in and especially out of the clinch.
_________________________
Vet

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#282959 - 10/31/06 12:41 PM Re: american kickboxing [Re: Taison]
teampnshmnt Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 1
actually yes Muy Thai heavybags are great but after you feel good on the heavybags then Thai boxers step it up to the makiwara board to condition shins and fore arms as well as fists,elbows, and knees.

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