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#282888 - 09/02/06 04:07 PM Kata, cat stance, and power generation
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
One important aspect of power generation in matsubayashi is to shift weight off of one foot and then back to it to add weight to waza. This is initially trained in Pinan kata with the transition from a cat stance to a flat cat stance. It is then developed further in Naihanchi. And then finally developed even more in the classical kata. This practice brings together several principles of power generation and can be very useful in creating amazing power. At the higher levels the weight shifts become less noticeable and movement is very subtle. Any thoughts?

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#282889 - 09/02/06 04:12 PM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: medulanet]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
WHile I do not practice Matsubayashi Ryu, I do try to incorporate this principle into my shotokan. There is just an amazing diference in the kind of power that you can generate. Plus if you are using your hip rotation as well, it can be devastating
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#282890 - 09/02/06 05:42 PM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: medulanet]
ANDY44 Offline
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Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Plenty of thoughts.

I can see how it should work in the pinans and naihanchi


Ok using cat stance
IM trying to apply the techniques on my heavy bag work.


Ok Im in flat footed cat stance facing the bag

Weigth transfer from the front to the back foot as well as hip twisted to rear foot


Technique thrown punch for example as the rear leg is flexed(coil spring sort of thing) with a hip twist forward.(all together)
but the weigth is then on both feet as opposed to just the front when the punch lands?.

Then I pull off using hip twist pushing the weigth back to the rear leg



thats it.





Edited by ANDY44 (09/02/06 06:09 PM)

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#282891 - 09/02/06 07:02 PM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: ANDY44]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Not quite what I am referring to. As you step, shift, slide, or sink into a cat stance your weight is directly above the heel of your back foot. This action is usually in a situation where you are shifting of the way by utilizing tai sabaki and deflecting/blocking an attack. As soon as the front leg recenters pointing at your target you sink, engage koshi to produce gammaku, and shift weight forward slightly. It is a technique similar to the power generation in Naihanchi kata. It is why in Matsubayashi we practice Pinan kata first. It really begins to develop power generation in a small area. It is the difference between hitting someone with a chain or a chain with an iron ball at the end of it. In american football when you hit someone people talk about bringing your hips or putting your hips into it. This is very similar to that. The hips or koshi don't move forward very far, but it greatly amplifies the power. It also helps you maintain good mobility to continue the attack, grab your opponent, throw them down, move around, or whatever.

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#282892 - 09/02/06 10:31 PM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: medulanet]
ANDY44 Offline
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Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Think I might have got it.



Its why I like weight training. Its not complicated.
Some weight trainers might be complicated but weight training isnt.


Edited by ANDY44 (09/02/06 11:05 PM)

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#282893 - 09/03/06 12:09 AM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: ANDY44]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Actually this is not complicated but second nature to people who move naturally. Unfortunately in the U.S. its all about strength. Trust me I know, I played fullback in college. I got my bench up to 405 and my squat up to 520. I was able to dominate LBs because of my strength and my hard head. In okinwan karate it is about how to gain maximum power with minimum effort. Why hit someone with only your arm which weighs maybe 15 or 20 pounds when you can hit them with 70 or 80% of your body weight. Even with the hip rotation if you don't put your body weight into your waza you will not get maximum power. Matsubayashi is all about natural movements that are second nature to natural movements. That is why okinawan karate is cultural. It helps if you move like the okinawans to make it work. They have a great awareness of their center and use it in everything. Americans/Westerners usually do not.

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#282894 - 09/03/06 01:07 AM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: medulanet]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
I totaly agree with you..But to me at the moment it means changing my training(complicated to me) some what but it will be worth it.

I have used around the poundages you descibed in the past.I still rep now with two by 145 pound dumbels on a dumbell below chest, dumb bell bench press. I can also strike quite hard and the speed is getting back to some where near where i want it( bare knuckle) bare handed strikes.(isnt there yet)

My hip action is as far as im concerned not bad.Needs more work but slowly getting there But I know it isnt where it should be.

And i see the okinawans using body mechanics that I would like. I also know that the double hip action when aquired is good.

What i also have to consider is I am 53 years of age.
so in years to come my strength might diminish.I hope it doesnt,hasnt of yet but it might.With that in mind I am looking for other methods of power speed production.
Looks like i will be training till im 72
One of the reasons I am following/ interested in this training process.

Another thing i have been doing is re studying the katas pinans(heians 1 to 5) naihanchi and kushanku(kanku dai)
with some of their variations.
with different bunkia. again in more detail.

some of the bunkia I have seen is total rubbish.\some good
some very practical.
Thanks

ANDY


Edited by ANDY44 (09/03/06 01:42 AM)

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#282895 - 09/03/06 08:12 AM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: medulanet]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
HI

Morning session.
Looks like its there. Had to slow things down but seems less use of upper body muscle power.

More like a whipping action..



Edited by ANDY44 (09/03/06 08:13 AM)

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#282896 - 09/07/06 07:52 AM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: medulanet]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814




Edited by ANDY44 (09/07/06 12:00 PM)

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#282897 - 09/07/06 07:21 PM Re: Kata, cat stance, and power generation [Re: medulanet]
Alejandro Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Nice posts!

Is gammaku something that is produced? I understand gammaku as an area of the midsection toward the back, part of the system of back muscles. I would think of gammaku as being engaged not produced. Were you referring to chinkuchi? Just wanted to clarify.

I like what you say about this being more in tune with natural body motion. The more I train kata, the more I see and feel such pcinciples. The cat stance(s) definitely take advantage of this, especially when viewed as a short intermediary position rather than "kamae" (as you know, of course). I feel that cat stance-like positions are usefull in "recentering" the moment before the execution of a technique, aiding in power generation. Even boxers will use similar body positions before the execution of a hard cross.
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