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#282580 - 09/01/06 07:51 PM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: Xibalba]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
There seems to be a deafening silence from Silky...

Hey kid, don't go away. Just open your eyes & ears before you open your mouth.


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#282581 - 09/01/06 09:44 PM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: Xibalba]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Mike,

"Sheesh, how many times do we have to say that!!!"

Probably a few more times yet.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#282582 - 09/02/06 02:19 PM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: McSensei]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
gee I didnt even realize he said TMA sucks....

yea you tell em Mike!!
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#282583 - 09/02/06 04:14 PM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: Xibalba]
Crash Offline
Buckle up!

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 627
Loc: Ontario, Canada
We still haven't got past the style vs style or traditional vs modern crap.

The martial arts are vast, you can train for self defense, spirituality, a sport, learn history and culture or other things. The UFC was first created to see how styles would match up against each other and eventually fighters figured out that being well rounded was the way to win but eventually MMA sort of became a style in it self. They are almost still one style, they don't train weapons etc but I won't get into that.

Still Kung fu people, Karate, Hapkido etc didn't do well in the begining of MMA, and today they don't really have a place in MMA, why? The common excuse is that real masters would not lower themselves to compete in such events, well yeah exactly! If you were a Master of what ever traditional MA, why would you? Mabey it's just me but when I picture a true martial arts master I think of someone fairly old, with students who feel priveliged to learn from them because mabey they can wipe out attackers with no wasted energy or kill bulls with a single punch etc. If you had this kind of power and had a world of respect already why would you Jump in a cage or ring and fight? It would be like lowering yourself or something. Real masters of traditional MA just wouldn't really have an interest, and they respect other masters as well so you just don't see them fight in real life.

I don't know, I'm not very good at explaining this type of thing really. Mabey someone will have better insight.

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#282584 - 09/02/06 05:15 PM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: Crash]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Hi There

Interesting. Cant realy answer that one.
MMA/UFC is good. What I do(trad) I find good.
Although this modern versus trad verses style etc thing I find some what boring. Most techniques in MMA/UFC are found in trad martial arts. So I think i would much rather discuss technique counter technique etc.
Training for speed /power regard less of which style uses the technique being discussed.

I think Bruce Lee amongst others use to critise other martial arts. Then he would be seen using a technique common to most martial arts.

Ego thing I think


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#282585 - 09/02/06 07:56 PM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: ANDY44]
Xibalba Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Lansing, MI, USA
Quote:


Although this modern versus trad verses style etc thing I find some what boring. Most techniques in MMA/UFC are found in trad martial arts. So I think i would much rather discuss technique counter technique etc.
Training for speed /power regard less of which style uses the technique being discussed.





Exactly!

There are no new techniques under the sun, really. MMA is a blending of the techniques of traditional martial arts - hence the name: "Mixed Martial Arts". And since grappling seems to be all the rage, does anyone really think the Gracies "created" a super-unbeatable style? Someone had to teach them, and they pilfered their techniques from Japanese ju-jitsu and judo. Not to say they aren't good at what they do - in fact, they are great. But to deny the "traditional" roots of their style is just short-sighted.

And as for the poor kung-fu fellow in the video in the original post - the fact that he was spanked doesn't mean that all kung-fu stinks. It means that he stinks. No, I take that back - he may not stink, but this kind of gladatorial no-holds barred combat may not have been the focus of his training. It is obvious that he didn't train to fight like this. If he had, even with his "inferior" kung-fu technique, I guarantee he would have fared better.

It is the fighter, not the style. Train hard enough, smart enough, against enough resisting opponents that force you out of your comfort zone, and you will become a better fighter. Not invincible, and definitely not good enough to prove that your style is the "best", but better. Period.

Sheesh, 'nuff said.

Mike

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#282586 - 09/03/06 06:50 AM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: Xibalba]
migo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 573
Loc: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Quote:

Someone had to teach them, and they pilfered their techniques from Japanese ju-jitsu and judo.




Ugh, they were taught Jiujitsu, that's why they called their style Jiujitsu, that's what they were told it was called. There wasn't any pilfering going on, although Rolls was branching out and incorporating techniques and training methodologies from other styles.

Anyway, the video was between John Marsh and a Kung Fu San Soo representative (can't remember his name, but a search should do the trick if anyone cares that much), it was a $5000 challenge match, winner takes all, and dirty techniques such as eye gouging explicitly allowed. I think the more important lesson from this video is: "No, you can't just eye gouge a grappler, it won't work. You actually need a solid base in grappling fundamentals and how to move your body when it's being restricted by a skilled grappler first."

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#282587 - 09/03/06 08:17 AM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: migo]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Good grief, another TMA/MMA debate- yippee!

putting on a Gi and kiai'ing up and down a hall, or shaving your head, getting tattoos and training in a cage, or anywhere inbetween - none of these make an effective fighter. They are tools that a fighter can use if learned properly, but the 'fighter' bit is a mindset that usually exists long before any form of unarmed training takes place.

crossbow or long bow? neither if the person holding them cant aim for sh1t, and shows no natural aptitude.

want to be teh de4dly fye-tor? get your game on in whatever style you have available, and stop flogging dead horses.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#282588 - 09/03/06 08:35 AM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: Cord]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
an effective fighter. They are tools that a fighter can use if learned properly, but the 'fighter' bit is a mindset that usually exists long before any form of unarmed training takes place.

crossbow or long bow? neither if the person holding them cant aim for sh1t, and shows no natural aptitude.






Maybe why I have problems communicating with some types.



Edited by ANDY44 (09/03/06 08:36 AM)

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#282589 - 09/03/06 08:38 AM Re: Traditional vs Modern techniques [Re: SilkyFighter]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
You have gone very quite for some reason?


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