FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 35 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 15
cxt 7
trevek 6
futsaowingchun 3
JKogas 2
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Throwing
by
04/23/05 10:58 PM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
Yesterday at 12:04 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/29/14 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:53 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432456 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 6 of 10 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >
Topic Options
#280457 - 08/27/06 06:38 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: MattJ]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Thanks Matt,
I appreciate the sentiment.

What most people overlook is that there is nothing I could ever tell someone in a book that didn't need practice to mean anything. It would have to become action before it could be seen as instruction... and that's true for any teacher in any art.

Martial arts are learned through the body, not from intellectual study... but that doesn't preclude anyone from learning tactics, angles of attack and defense, etc. from written sources. By concentrating on basics, most students can master the best techniques out there, but they won't learn the "feel" until they know application and timing... which are only taught by a teacher and through randori. By following their example and learning their timing sequences, they can indeed "master" a technique. When every technique they do is "that well done", they can indeed be deemed "masters"... but not from their own description, but the analysis of their peers.

In Japan, there are tests for "master" titles, and not much room for error or "invention", but when a teacher masters what they know, they can pass it on... which is the real mission...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#280458 - 08/27/06 07:17 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:


I read and study martial arts at least as many hours out of the dojo as I do in practice




I think this is EXTREMELY important! An instructor can only show a fraction of what he/she knows in a classroom setting. The student must expect to do their own research, enquiry, analysis, reflection and synthesis in their own time. It's like going to Open University.

Quote:


First, unless your body works a different way from everybody else in the world, the body mechanics of ANY art are going to be the same. Your arms and legs move from the same points, your hips and backbone work the same way, and your parts are all located in the same places... so what makes one art different from the other?





I don't have the exact quote, but I think Bruce Lee once said, martial arts are all the same, unless you have 4 arms and 4 legs...

Quote:


To answer that question, I teach students that "karate is a hitting art", "Judo is a grappling and throwing art, as is jujutsu", Aikido is a blending art based on swordsmanship and jujutsu. From that, you should understand that some arts are force delivery, others use body mechanics to manipulate the body, and others use blending techniques to "accompany" the attacker's body in creating a technique.





Now, how's that for MMA?

I think it's important to note that each art/system/style tends to focus on a small part of a larger whole, although certain arts like jujitsu and kempo are fairly well-rounded - containing essential elements of striking, kicking and grappling. Some tend to focus more on different aspects than others. It's basically strategic specialization - developing one's strengths to counter someone else's weakness.

Again, it's up to the student to discover this outside of a normal class setting. Cross-training is perhaps one option, but I won't go into the arguments for and against cross-training. That's an argument for another thread.

Quote:

there are a lot of preconceptions out there, and it's a real surprise when they suddenly are attacked back with hitting techniques in aikido or judo or jujutsu... first reactions... "Oh, but that's not (insert art of your choice)"...




It really cheeses me off when someone says that... It just shows how much or rather how little they understand. There is a heck of a lot of atemi waza in judo and aikido - or at least opportunities for it. Just because it is not usually practiced in a classroom setting, doesn't mean they don't exist. Certainly, when one is just learning a specific technique, one doesn't expect to be smacked or choked. Usually that is up to uke to decide if nage's technical holes need plugging. And nage should thank uke for "teaching" them.

The role of uke cannot be understated. It is the more important half of the art. When I'm uke for my students, I really make them work, otherwise they get smacked, kyusho'd or countered. And I expect them to do the same when they are uke for me. Sometimes they get lucky... mostly they don't.

Top
#280459 - 08/28/06 02:36 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Robaikido - asked Andy, have you actually tried to put a wristlock on someone who doesnt want you to, I'd be suprised if you could put 1 on me let alone professionals.

I see why they are saying you are inexperience, quite simply if any Aikido practictioner/or any system wanted to apply a wristlock on You or another skilled or non skilled opponent. It doesn't start out a wrist lock, you have to get close enough to work the lock that usually take what they call softing up. Usually after stomping the instep, elbow to the face, striking the grion and kneeing in the ribs, a wrist lock is very easy to attain. Where have you trained for 2-4 years of combined Aikido and Jujitsu and you don't know that. A simple Jab to a guy's nose and catch his arm trying check for blood to apply the lock.

All the stuff you don't see is whats important in Real situations, Very rarely will you or anybody try to lock up an alter resisting person.

Point being made Aikido has soften techniques, laymen terms =(will beat you down) to enter=(get close enough) to apply the locks or throws.

Most people that I applied a wrist or arm lock on, after I kick them in the balls gave me =(which mean they didn't resist much in laymen terms) their arm. I could have applied, whatever I wanted. Do people let you punch them in the face? No you got to take it, the same with a lock.

Almost like talking to a white belt, but I know you are not because of your training 4.5 years in Aikido and Jujistu, plus striking skills. I'm just wondering how you missed that?

Sorry I misunderstood that you were using the UFC as a reference point, but I think I understood that. Anyway I beg your pardon.

Eyier I concurr.



Edited by Neko456 (08/28/06 02:50 PM)

Top
#280460 - 08/28/06 08:51 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Neko456]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
HI Neko again you go straight to the heart of the matter.
good.
\We Train how we figth,We fight how we train

I didnt bother mentioning what you wrote because as you say any body who has trained/fought wouldnt have wrote could any body put a wrist lock on any body. I think the guy needs to keep training and studying.


Top
#280461 - 08/28/06 09:01 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Andy, I guess I'm addressing Rob's arguments and your question at the same time, but with that situation in place, do you really think another book of instructions is going to make any significant difference? The information's out there... it's a matter of training it and understanding in your body how it works and how it's applied.


HI there

Yes I do. Sure there are plenty of books out there. sure there are plenty of so called instructers who dont know jack #### earning vasts amounts of money.

I am a striker. People come and want to train with me because of my striking skills. I wont train with them because of ethics and past experiences.

So a person with arm/wrist locking skills?
That I need.


Top
#280462 - 08/29/06 05:35 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: ANDY44]
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
Of course I am aware of the use of atemi, but as I think eyerie mentioned, you dont always see it, but it can be used, a few comments later, some1 said you train as ou fight, so you fight like you train, or words to that matter. Well, if you dont use them in training, you prob wont when using the art for real.

Another question, for the higher grades, when doing (insert technique here) do you find that applying atemi can interupt the flow and balance breaking, you have to be pretty quick to take the balance and to clock them one, I guess it comes with practice.

Going back to my first point, I have realised something, believe it or not I dont really care about self defense, I dont go looking for trouble, and its rare that it comes looking for me. I know how to throw a punch and am pretty strong so who cares if an art is practical bla bla bla. I've come to realise now that I think aikido looks cool, and is interesting, I love trying to flip someone as they extend. The funny thing is, that the people from boxing and jujutsu came in with black eyes all the time, as they used to look for trouble, whereas the aikido people never did. So thanks for all you replies, I had fun anyway
_________________________
Rob

Top
#280463 - 08/29/06 06:11 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
When done within the context of sword/staff, everything IS atemi. So, everything I do IS atemi - whether it is implicit or not. It is an integral part of the movement, rather than an adjunct to making the technique work.

It also doesn't have to a "punch" or a strike with the hand... some part of your body is always entering, striking, or turning and cutting. In fact, I don't "punch" and "strike" as such, it's more like "hit" with kokyu.

Nor does the strike and cut necessarily have to physically connect with uke.... it can be a striking motion to the empty spot or "open gate" - usually whilst holding some part of their appendage....

Top
#280464 - 08/29/06 10:16 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Going back to my first point, I have realised something, believe it or not I dont really care about self defense, I dont go looking for trouble, and its rare that it comes looking for me. I know how to throw a punch and am pretty strong so who cares if an art is practical bla bla bla. I've come to realise now that I think aikido looks cool, and is interesting, I love trying to flip someone as they extend. The funny thing is, that the people from boxing and jujutsu came in with black eyes all the time, as they used to look for trouble, whereas the aikido people never did. So thanks for all you replies, I had fun anyway.



Good

Now can we get to some interesting conversations about technique as such?






Top
#280465 - 09/02/06 03:07 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
jonnyboxcutter Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320
Wristtwister, I would be interested in your perspective (not an X vs Y scenario) of Hapkido. Unfortunately where I am from there are no Aikido schools so my exposure to it, is limited to a one weekend seminar with Toshishiro Obata – the focus was Shinkendo and we only lightly touched on Aikido. I have however trained in Hapkido for a few years and it seemed similar.

As far as the “real life” questions, after having Obata Sensei’s (at the time) 14 year old son toss me around like his B**** for ˝ an hour I don’t doubt it’s validity (I have a funny anecdote about Yukishiro but I wont go into it now).

-JBC-
_________________________
-- -JBC-

Top
#280466 - 09/02/06 02:43 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: jonnyboxcutter]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
From what I know of Hapkido and Aikido, they have very similar mechanics, but not "practice" systems. Hapkido seems to either be a "grab my wrist" or "fight" scenario, while Aikido is more of a "partnered" (i.e. balanced) approach to training.

Both use the same dynamics of throwing, takedowns, and pinning, but I think the Hapkido folks are a little "shorter" with their techniques than the Aikido ones. Short-cutting the techniques makes them extremely painful, but doesn't allow the uke a chance to protect himself very much, and while they have similar dynamics, I would suspect that Hapkido would incur more training injuries because of that... JMO

Hapkido is more of a blend of TKD and Aikido and the "angular" techniques of karate based skills is usually sharper than those of throwing based techniques because part of the training is to help the uke learn to protect themselves with ukemi as well as to teach the nage to throw or pin. Hapkido gives such little consideration to that side of the equation, I suspect that you "do what you can" and hope for the best... but both arts can be brutal at the level I'm accustomed to playing.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
Page 6 of 10 < 1 2 ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga