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#280467 - 09/02/06 06:49 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
jonnyboxcutter Offline

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320
My understanding of Aikido is you use bigger circles, where we use much smaller circles. As far as injury goes, yea, I could see it getting bad but it just requires control from both sides, you really need to understand your partner’s strengths and weaknesses. Both sides need to have some respect or it gets ugly.

Please go a bit deeper on this if you could.


Hapkido seems to either be a "grab my wrist" or "fight" scenario, while Aikido is more of a "partnered" (i.e. balanced) approach to training.

Specifically the “"partnered" (i.e. balanced) approach” aspect, I am not sure what you are saying here.

I really wanted to disagree with you on this

because part of the training is to help the uke learn to protect themselves with ukemi … Hapkido gives such little consideration to that side of the equation, I suspect that you "do what you can" and hope for the best...

But then I realized that I did not learn how to take a fall in Hapkido class, rather from the old Japanese style instructor I used to work out with in my free time.

As far as both being brutal, I have seen when good Hapkido technique goes bad; or gets better (depending on your perspective). I’m not too sure in medical terms what happened but the guy’s wrist made several popping sounds a split second before he hit the mat and it was blood red from mid forearm to finger tips. I have never seen that guy in class again. I felt bad but he was repeatedly told to slow down. I just could not let go fast enough…

-- -JBC-

#280468 - 09/03/06 10:01 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: jonnyboxcutter]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina

Specifically the “"partnered" (i.e. balanced) approach” aspect, I am not sure what you are saying here.

In Aikido, you have as much responsibility to your uke as you do to "being able to do the technique", and while it's up to them to practice good ukemi, it's up to you not to drive them through the floor with techniques that are like being in a train wreck. It's a matter of giving someone a "balanced attack", not simply driving through the window of opportunity to wreck the store and leaving the uke in the path of destruction.

Many of the Aikido techniques can destroy joints and limbs, and it's the responsibility of both parties to keep it balanced so they can keep training. The uke needs to have good ukemi, the nage to balance the technique and give the uke an opportunity to respond and dissipate the force without injury.

What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

#280469 - 09/03/06 11:28 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
jonnyboxcutter Offline

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 320

it's the responsibility of both parties to keep it balanced so they can keep training.

Kind of where I thought you where going but not sure.

As far as the above noted injury, I was intending to show a counter to the only technique that he had any faith in. The guy was part of the “this stuff doesn’t work” crowd (it didn’t help that I was much younger than he was). It was attack, defend, counter with me starting. The guy took off at light speed, so when it came time for me to counter he was doomed, like I said I couldn’t let go fast enough. I had told him several times to GO SLOW!!! Other than this one (and maybe a bad fall every now and then), I honestly don’t remember any other injuries, so I would just say that we go about it differently I guess, and I would say probably a bit slower than you like.

Next time I am in the SC area I want to look you up, if you leave me with one good arm I’ll even buy the beer. Honestly, I have wanted to train in Aikido since the first time I saw it, but like I said no access…

Thanks for the info,
-- -JBC-

#280470 - 09/05/06 03:04 AM Re: Aikido vs any fighting art [Re: jonnyboxcutter]
Atreu Offline

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 11
Loc: under the southern cross
ok there are some aikidokas like me who dont mind getting into a biff once in a while. Infact Osensei's early students used to go to the red light district of tokyo and pick on street thugs and try their aikido on them.

My fellow aikidoka would start preaching the indoctrinated concept that aikido is a monk's martial art hence we should not fight at all. I say bullocks to those self righteous evangelical hippies.

Aikido versus kicks (taekwondo). irimi nage works well on round house kicks especially. Kumi nage or Neck pinning throws are very effective to high kickers.

Aikido versus muay thai clinch. blend to the left and right turn tegatana the knee cap then koshi nage(hip throw)

Aikido versus Judo. atemi atemi atemi atemi

aikido versus kung fu et wu shu- circular irimi and kokyu nage.

Aikido versus karate- my favourite is kote gaeshi when they do a front punch then the quick pull. shiho nage for over commited punchs and kicks.

aikido versus kendo- I'll ask for the same armour but I would use my Iwama tipped kamagong boken.

Aikido versus Jodo- I will use my Kamagong boken for offense and used jo dori and kentai jo or 31 jo movement to break their jo (or head or hand).

Aikido versus tanto jutsu- Aiki tanto waza techinues...I prefer using two knives at the same time.


Aikido versus Ninjitsu- Aikidokas consider themselves as samurai. Ninjas are the classic antagonist of such warrior spirit bukiwaza (weapons) or taijutsu (hand to hand)bring it on.

Otherwise...I would rather drink sake with you and sing to power ballad karaoke songs.
Sumorai Speak softly Kiai loudly carry a big kamagong boken

#280471 - 09/05/06 05:59 AM Re: Aikido vs any fighting art [Re: Atreu]
xuzen_628 Offline
Unknown MA champion

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 102
Loc: Malaysia
And you are speaking from personal REAL (TM) experience right?

Knowing one technique that will surely work is better than knowing hundred that will probably work.

#280472 - 09/05/06 07:25 AM Re: Aikido vs any fighting art [Re: Atreu]
ANDY44 Offline

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
What is a biff?

not another boring thread i Hope
You dont by any chance practice other martial arts like Mauy thai or ju jitsu do you?

Any how just to cheer things up
How to get onthe good side of the ref

Edited by ANDY44 (09/05/06 07:41 AM)

#280473 - 09/05/06 07:43 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
ANDY44 Offline

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
HI wrist twister what do you think to this guy?

#280474 - 09/05/06 07:26 PM Re: Aikido vs any fighting art [Re: ANDY44]
Atreu Offline

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 11
Loc: under the southern cross
Hi a biff is an aussie term for a fight (it is the sound of a punch hitting a body) yes living in Australia for 25 years can land you in a lot of biff especially as the only coloured guy in all white school. Plus guns and carrying knives are illegal here in Australia so if there is a fight it is hand to hand most of the time

yes I did karatedo, judo, muay thai, arnis, wing chung, pa qua, shing yi, BJJ, chen style tai chi, and boxing.

I stayed with aikido because it really challenged me. It is a bloody hard art to master. Plus it offered me the AWASE skill- that is the ability to use someone elses strength, power, force, and intention against them. Also aikido teaches you how to use and manipulate KI. I think aikido is the only art that offers these skills. I also think that is why we cannot have comps and we're supposed to be peaceful because if we become trigger happy with aikido...there will be a lot of us ending in jail for man slaughter or murder.

So peace mate
Sumorai Speak softly Kiai loudly carry a big kamagong boken

#280475 - 04/12/07 09:00 AM Re: Aikido vs any fighting art [Re: Atreu]
sl000w Offline

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 7
It should be said that traditional aikido does not have any katas for kicks. Modern aikidokas have improvised.

Re aikido vs judo, that would be the ideal attack for an aikidoka because that is how randori works -- ie, the attacker lunging towards your body in an attempt to grab you.

Re aikido vs punches, that is fairly straightforward. Ikkyo and its variants, shiho nage, kotae gashi all work well.

Then there's irimi nage which can be used in practically every situation, including defending against kicks.

Re bjj or wrestling style shoots, what about kaiten nage or a tenchi nage with hands on the biceps or shoulders if the approaching person's arms are wide open; otherwise, an ikkyo going after the elbow.

Worst case scenario, you can always invite the other side to use a weapon such as a baseball bat, a metal bar, a knife or a broken bottle, in which case the defenses will be stock standard aikido. ie, There are only so many ways to swing a sword or a knife.

#280476 - 04/27/07 08:05 AM Re: Aikido vs any fighting art [Re: sl000w]
sandan Offline

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 8
I can only speak for myself but as i was developing my Aiki/jitsu skills over the years i tried to visit as many clubs which practised different styles as possible, so that i may learn how to deal with the various styles.

all i can say is Aikido practised properly with the right amount of agression is in my opinion one of the most effective arts around.
if you doubt me i lived in Thailand for 2 years and practised with the trainer of the Thai champions at the siptolek Gym in Pattaya.
I also run my own class here in the Uk, I mainly teach doormen these days as my style is slightly more Aki Jitsu, all the doormen i teach are fairly big lads the biggest been 6" 8" and 20 stone.
now i deal with him and others effectivley. as for me Im a mere 12" stone and 5" 7". i dont throw down challeges as my ego is way past all that and im 46 years old, but i have always dealt effectvley with all attackes ive had the fortune/mis fortune to come up against.
furthermore i was attacked last year by a bjj fighter who took me by supprise and he did get me on the ground but soon let go when i nikkioed him rather aggresivley. although Aikido is non aggressive do you realy think that if you attacked myself or any other Aikidoka in an aggresive manor youd be getting peace and harmony! remember o"sensi said 90% of Aikido is Atemi!.

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