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#280437 - 08/24/06 05:51 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Dobbersky]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Although I have practiced many styles previous and I teach/study Ashihara Karate and study Wado Ryu. These Aikido techniques take years to perfect I believe 8 years to First Dan. It is the pacifists way (no strikes) and I love the techniques and read many books on Aikido. Maybe when I am older and feel I do not need to use a finishing technique I will take up Aikido again.



Interesting

From what I see and I am learning aikido and karate meet at some point then it becomes hard to see the difference.

But check back in the future.


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#280438 - 08/25/06 04:52 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: ANDY44]
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
sorry 2 sound like someone who is ufc / k1 mad, I'm using them as examples as we know they are good fighters. From your point of view, at your level and of your experience, in a street setting, concrete, plenty of room for example, do you think you would be able to defend yourself agaisnt any of them? Basically agaisnt some1 from bjj, who is going to be lookin for a takedown, or some1 from thai boxing, whos stand up skills are good??
_________________________
Rob

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#280439 - 08/25/06 05:26 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
sorry 2 sound like someone who is ufc / k1 mad, I'm using them as examples as we know they are good fighters. From your point of view, at your level and of your experience, in a street setting, concrete, plenty of room for example, do you think you would be able to defend yourself agaisnt any of them? Basically agaisnt some1 from bjj, who is going to be lookin for a takedown, or some1 from thai boxing, whos stand up skills are good??



Hi there.

The answer to your question is YES
I have fought some good people in my time.

Have a read on the self defence forum.
Some of the conversations on there.

Dont realy see the point of the question but I suppose you will have your reasons.

Ooops
I do see the point of your questions, You had a bad expereince with aikido and you want to tell every body the downside of aikido or how bad it is?

For what reason?.

well first I know what I need.I also know that there are different levels of tuition and fighting abilities in all fighting arts. If you had a bad expierence then your going to have to find the person who can give you what you want.

You say proving ground for aikido is the UFC? why is that?
Why should som eone who practices aikido enter a competition? To prove to you that it works? Why should they do that?

Ok here are some questions. Can you apply a wrist lock that would put som eone down?Yes or no?
Have you looked in to the different aspects of aikido?
I have and I need what they offer. So I am looking in to what style I want to practice. do you do bag work?
do you practice judo?or ju jitsu?

What exactly do you do training wise?


Edited by ANDY44 (08/25/06 11:31 PM)

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#280440 - 08/25/06 05:30 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Rob,
I hate to sound preachy, but you seem to think that people who do BJJ are the only ones who ever do any groundwork, and that nobody in martial arts does any contact work except the UFC and K1 gang... all of which are "Johnny come lately's" as far as martial arts are concerned.

We were kicking a$$es and taking names with Judo and karate before any of the now glamorous "full contact fighting" had even been heard of, so don't sell us short. We were making lumps and bruises when everybody else was getting their diapers changed...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#280441 - 08/26/06 02:22 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Method of training and time put in, brings about results in UFC and MMA. But there is a big difference in fighting in the street and in the safety of a cage/ring with a referee and Doctors. This type fighting would be effective in a fair fight or on the street. But also lead one open to other attacks on the street. Such as defense against knife multiples, unarmed and armed or make use of shifted weapons. If they know you have training they are not going to fight you fair. I found that out years ago.

Aikido is not a competitive art; It is a Self defense system. There is a difference and there no need to prove anything if it works in there its own arena.

Wristwister - As you mentioned MAs were surviving long before the UFC/Pride/MMA epidemic ever happened. Serious fighting is different then what happens in MMA.


Edited by Neko456 (08/26/06 02:28 AM)
_________________________
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#280442 - 08/26/06 04:28 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Neko456]
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
I used ufc/K1 as an example! everyone here knows about it, I dont know about your background, what you were doing before they came around, I picked a group of fighters that every1 on this forum would know and be able to comment on, I also said in a street setting, not a ring. Now wrist twister, you may cross train, but I dont think that you will see groundfighting in many aikido dojos, the whole point of aikido is to stay on your feet and on balance, all I asked is that do you think you, yourself would be able to use aikido effectively agaisnt attackers of this type, and to ANDY, have you actually tried to put a wristlock on someone who doesnt want you to, I'd be suprised if you could put 1 on me let alone professionals. My background, aikido for 2 1/2 years, jujutsu for 2 years, boxing for 1 year, weight training for 6 years. I'm not lookin 2 bash aikido, because to be honest I would like to return to it, but I have to find a dojo that train the way I want to train, with the peiple in the class who want to train the same.

To go back to what someone said, you said aikido is self defense only and there is no need to prove it 2 any1. Well, if you are going to use aikido to defend yourself, what you get to work in the dojo agaisnt an uke with good ukemi, you might find it a different story agaisnt some1 who wont react in the same way to your techniques, or some1 who doesnt attack in 1 of the three main attacks you see in aikido. Thats why I want to find a dojo like the 1 wristtwister speaks of, who train properly but also cross train with other arts, for good practice, but also to experience other forms of attack, and to take some1s balance who is not going to let you.
_________________________
Rob

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#280443 - 08/26/06 06:29 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814



You seem young and very in experienced and havent seen what MA,S has to offer.Also you are thinking that because you cant do something then every body else cant.The next thing will be you will be telling me that you can do a one handed press( shoulder dumb bell press overhead one handed) perhaps 60 kg and no else can and if they could you will be surprised. (can you?)

If you have been boxing for 1 year and ju jitsu for 2 years can I suggest you keep training?
Weight training for 6 years?

Rob aikido. I have a pair of sock poss older than you at home.They are clean no holes and have been around longer than you have trained.

Years ago I trained with a lot of thai boxer's. I wanted to work on some of the techniques they had to offer. They had "certain" techniques that I needed to train harder.Had nothing to do with who can beat who on the street.
Or where would I apply this in a self defence scenario



So here is a suggestion. keep training.
Forget ego and train hard and get good. Some where along the line you will need what aikido has to offer. You cant see it yet but in the future you might.

I am new to aikido but from what I have seen you are describing the training/learning methods ?


Better still why dont you describe, in detail,every detail, on here the way you were being taught aikido.
All of it and stop knocking or comparing who can win what with the art.


Let people on here who know what they are doing have a look at how you are being trained in Aikido

Your choice?


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#280444 - 08/26/06 08:42 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: ANDY44]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Andy,
this guy's problem is that he is inexperienced and has typical illusions of martial arts being instant fixes and instant technique abilities. His whole concept of fighting is apparently off the UFC style of MMA and has never seen the other arts practiced at anything other than the television stereotypes.

None of us will ever erase his preconceived notions... and he is doomed to learn the hard way... by getting his teeth kicked in. I've had students like that before, who simply wouldn't listen, and were all about "bringing the fight" to the art, rather than learning how to fight. Results are normally because they don't want to listen or learn... they have their preconceived ideas, and have to get hurt before changing their mind.

Rob, my friend, you are in a very dangerous situation... there is a lot of stuff out there that is a hell of a lot more dangerous than the MMA practices you seem so endeared to... punching, kicking, and choking somebody out are BASICS to fighting... You're like putting someone in a race car with no brakes... you're going to go fast, but you're going to learn about steering after you hit the wall...

My sympathies for your parents and your teachers...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#280445 - 08/26/06 11:50 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Wristtwister -

Quote:

typical illusions of martial arts being instant fixes and instant technique abilities.




Good point, and unfortunately, one that will probably never go away. Study of XYZ style or training paradigm does not guarantee that YOU will ever be any good at it. Hard, serious work in most any style will likely result in a good fighter.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#280446 - 08/26/06 02:56 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: MattJ]
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
you didn't answer anything i said, all you did was say how wonderful i think ufc is. i used the fighters from it as EXAMPLES of people who would be difficult to defend against, seems like you are dodging questions and just giving me BS about keep training your young and you know nothing. I'm only here to ask you some questions, if you get offended by them then thats you, just correct me, if you can put a good point across. As far as I'm concerned, telling me that an art like aikido which doesnt train in a 'live' fashion will make you able to defend yourself if you stick with it, and comparing it to arts such as thai boxing, judo or boxing, which do train in 'live fashions', is silly because without ever trying it you wont know. Its like buying something from a shop, never using it, until you need it, what guarantee is there that it will work. I know no art gives you a guarantee, but surely training in a 'live' fashion gives you as close as you can get to realistic.
_________________________
Rob

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