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#280407 - 08/19/06 11:55 AM Aikido vs etc
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
I realise that aikido is considered a non competitive art, but i was wondering, of all the aikido practioners out there, there must be some who took up the art for self defense purposes, and probably some who took it up to be able to fight like Steven Seagal. Now, bearing in mind the arguments that come up, with different opinions on whether aikido is effectice as a self defense art, or would it be able to hold its own agaisnt other arts, i cant understand how there hasnt been an aikidoka who has wanted to challenge a practioner from another art. if he beleive his art is effective, and doesnt like the bad views it gets, it would make sense for him to stand up for it. i realise that some aikido techniques are banned in the ufc, kotegashi for example is a small joint technique, which isnt allowed, but a challenge match would be agreed that the techniques could be used. you see alot of impressive displays of aikido, but you rarely see any tidy attacks. personally i'd love to see a top aikidoka go agaisnt a top (insert art here) and i'm pretty sure most people would. i know people may say its the art not the artist, but you need an artist to stand up for the art. whether they won or lost, it doesnt really matter, people still have their own views, but i'm sure it would attract alot of interset

what do you think?
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Rob

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#280408 - 08/19/06 12:06 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I aggree it would be interesting, but isn't competition somewhat antithetical to the very nature of Aikido? That may explain the lack of interest in "stepping up" from the Aiki folk.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#280409 - 08/19/06 01:22 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: MattJ]
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
i know what you are saying, but i dont want that 2 be the answer 2 my question, but you cant possibly say that there isnt a high grade aggressive skillful aikidoka out there, who is sick of having his art ridiculed. if i was a high grade i think i would give it a try
_________________________
Rob

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#280410 - 08/19/06 09:56 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Ah yes, Grasshopper... there are plenty of Aikidoka that will bury you in the mats... but they aren't going to come out and challenge anyone. Everyone is welcome to Aikido, and the ones with the challenges can get moved to the front of the line by telling the instructors what doesn't work...

GREAT CHALLENGES IN AIKIDO... Show me...

Now... before you make the mistake of telling someone who's actually versatile in Aikido that something doesn't work, please make sure you have your insurance card with you, and good coverage... Hospitals hate charity cases...



_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#280411 - 08/20/06 07:35 AM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
I know people are going to come back with what you just said, we will put you in hospital we wont challenge you because of what we can do 2 you bla bla bla, but that isnt good enough for me, correct me if i'm wrong, but when you use aikido to defend yourself, the whole point of it is to leave your attacker immobilised but unhurt. Surely a good aikidoka is willing to show how aikido can compete with a resisting opponent, because i know i'd love to see it
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Rob

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#280412 - 08/20/06 02:37 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
Umbra_777 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 148
I think that one has to be very carful when comparing two arts because often they have different advantages. For example aikido is desighned to not injure the opponent which makes it much harder (but likwise makes it much more defendable as self defense in court) so a hypothetical challenge would have to take that into account. Aikido focuses on multiple attackers so the fight would have to be a multiperson fight to represent all the extra work that goes into training to defeat multiple people. Etc. It's not as simple as saying if the martial art is less effective, each person has to ask themselfs "Is this (possible) loss of effectivness worth it to gain the unique benefits of Aikido (nonviolence, multiple attackers, etc.)"

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#280413 - 08/20/06 02:42 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Well Slick, you can't have it both ways... you don't get the "gentle treatment" if you're coming in with the "this stuff won't work" attitude about it. What pops out in your conversation is that you want to challenge the art, but if somebody plants you with force, you want "better treatment"...

I have total control of my techniques all the way from start to finish, and I can put you on the floor gently or leaving a hole in the mats. When you challenge the art, you get the "deep" planting treatment... In Aikido, we teach you to adjust attitudes by adjusting altitudes... so when you open that mouth about "nobody ever proving Aikido has anything"... don't complain when they leave your face stuck to the floor...

...And before you start with the "peace", love and harmony routine... there's nothing in the philosophy of Aikido that is inconsistent with "hard" techniques... You just need somebody to give you some better "understanding"...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#280414 - 08/20/06 05:37 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: wristtwister]
Robaikido Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Wales
the thing is, aikido is meant to be used as an art where you dont hurt your attacker, and that means ATTACKER, not some guy your training with that is giving you rubbish attacks to work with, which are known to the defender before hand which means they are easy to defend. If you are going to use aikido to defend yourself, the attack is going to come out of the blue, your not going to know what side its coming from, whether its a headbut, punch, kick elbow weapon etc. You can give me your silly responses about how you can put me into the ground bla bla bla, I'll just laugh them off. Aikido looks great, but it needs something behind it to show its an effective art, and that doesnt mean displays of flashy techniques with telegraphed attacks. The way it looks to me, that aikido has alot of naive people training in it, alot of people taking aikido are there for the self defense purposes, and all I see is people getting the idea that they can defend themselves with this art, but really have no proof that it works on resisting opponents. Dont get me wrong, I liked aikido when I was doing it, but I always had the doubt in the back of my mind, if I am taking up an art, I want to be able to think to myself, that the instructor is a guy I wouldnt want to fight, now, when i was doing aikido, and I went to 3 different clubs, there wasnt 1 person in any club that I thought yea they are pretty tough, not 1, thats why I'd love to see someone using it agaisnt resisting opponents, surely you'd love to see someone from aikido toss a jiu jitsu stylist or thai boxer around, I know I would.
_________________________
Rob

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#280415 - 08/20/06 05:52 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
EvilKi Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 47
Loc: Rolling around Colorado
Wrist your response actually made me laugh out loud here, reminds me of the first time I attended an aikido class, and I asked a smaller guy smaller than me and im 5'7 140lbs how effective is it in comparison to live arts such as judo boxing grappling all arts i participate in regularly. We sparred and what started out as a soft rotation turned into a very abrupt and hard wrist lock straight to the mat, from then on all i had was enormous respect for aikido. This is coming from someone who pracitces live sports or whatever rob wishes to call them, trust me aikido has its place, especially with the right individual.
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Gentleness always overcomes strength. Kyuzo Mifune.

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#280416 - 08/20/06 10:46 PM Re: Aikido vs etc [Re: Robaikido]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

You can give me your silly responses about how you can put me into the ground bla bla bla, I'll just laugh them off. Aikido looks great, but it needs something behind it to show its an effective art, and that doesnt mean displays of flashy techniques with telegraphed attacks.




It's clear that you've never trained with anybody doing aikido for any length of time or at any depth of study, or you wouldn't be making such stupid statements.

Quote:

The way it looks to me, that aikido has alot of naive people training in it, alot of people taking aikido are there for the self defense purposes, and all I see is people getting the idea that they can defend themselves with this art, but really have no proof that it works on resisting opponents.




What that shows me, is that there's no reason to argue with an idiot... the only person who's naieve here is you...
You're a legend in your own mind...



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What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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