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#277933 - 08/15/06 09:14 AM Re: katana sharpening [Re: paradoxbox]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Paradox

I guess it comes down to if you "need" to use it.

Given the situation described, the pro's and con's of the self defense, the respective laws involved.

I would say that a less than lethal response is what is "needed."

The plus side is that if you "need" to--you can kill a intruder with a baseball or criket bat if you "need" to.

Bokken are evry bit as deadly as a "live" blade in the right hands.

I'm still trying to figure out how someone that is too "small" and frail to weild a ballbat effectively expects to be able to use a katana.

Oh, and in the situation described, I think you would be VERY hard pressed to tell if someone was using a zinc alloy iaito or a "live" blade.

Were not talking about a row of katana all set up and laid out under bright lights for display here.
Where tallking about dim rooms, very heightend situations, with split seconds to make choices.
Even then you can do serious damage with a zinc alloy blade.


Edited by cxt (08/15/06 09:18 AM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#277934 - 08/15/06 11:20 AM Re: katana sharpening [Re: cxt]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
You want a taser, yeah, that's what you want.

Swords WERE meant for ONE thing...well..two things - War and civilian duels. They're not self defense weapons, they're not good at that.

Furthermore, if you DID want to use a sword for self defense a Katana probably isn't the best choice. I can't think of anything better than a cutlass, it was designed for tight spaces and makes for a better thrusting weapon than the Katana, it's balanced for one handed use.

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#277935 - 08/15/06 11:25 AM Re: katana sharpening [Re: Charles Mahan]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Charles, I believe what Paradox meant was that it's simply theater if you aren't willing and able to actually use the sword. I agree, to a point. You should never draw steel, gun, or any weapon on an intruder unless you are willing to kill them, stand in front of a jury, and admit to it. Otherwise, you might as well pistol-whip yourself and hand them the gun along with the rest of your possessions. You may bluff the intruder, but intent is a huge part of your appearance.

And Subedei, my choice would be either a bowie or an Arkansas toothpick. Nice, compact, good stabbing damage, and more deadly than anything else on the street.


Edited by Benjamin1986 (08/15/06 11:28 AM)
_________________________
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#277936 - 08/15/06 11:32 AM Re: katana sharpening [Re: Benjamin1986]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
I dunno Ben, if a burgler attacked you with a cutlass I think you'd be at a large disadvantage.

I urge you to rethink your decision, it could cost you your life!

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#277937 - 08/15/06 01:10 PM Re: katana sharpening [Re: corsair]
shinsetsu777 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3
Even Samurai did not use their katana to defend their homes. The blade is simply too long to be effective indoors. They would either use their shotou or a specially made shortened katana known as a chisagatana, which were specifically for indoor fighting. The katana was hung up in the shrine at home.

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#277938 - 08/15/06 04:34 PM Re: katana sharpening [Re: shinsetsu777]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

I dunno Ben, if a burgler attacked you with a cutlass I think you'd be at a large disadvantage.



If a burgler attacked me with a cutlass, I'd think I was in a bad pirate movie! Sorry, but that is an absolutely ridiculous statement!
Quote:

They would either use their shotou or a specially made shortened katana known as a chisagatana, which were specifically for indoor fighting. The katana was hung up in the shrine at home.



Ummm .... no!
Chisagatana were not made specifically for fighting indoors. Katana were not hung up in shrines as nobody worshipped their swords. The katana was placed in the stand by the door that was there for that reason. You are correct in that a shoto would be used, if necessary, indoors.
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#277939 - 08/15/06 08:02 PM Re: katana sharpening [Re: pgsmith]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
As can be seen in this thread there's a huge variance of opinions.

For those of you who live in or near Vancouver, I'm sure you have heard of the home invasions that happen basically every day, where the victims are either beaten badly or tied up and left to rot as their belongings are stolen.

There have been numerous incidents this year where senior citizens were tied up and killed by intruders in their home.

Last year, about 11 months agp to the day, someone tried to invade my home and was definately armed with something.

It's a lot easier to justify your actions if someone breaks into your house with the intent of doing you harm. No, it's not good to cut off the head of someone who walks into your home unarmed without explanation.

But it's definately not good to try to take on 3 knife wielding thugs with a bokken or iaito who probably plan to tie you up and perhaps kill you.

I'd rather err on the side of caution. Besides, an armed 'guest' in your home is breaking the law to begin with. The courts are not going to see them in a positive light especially if you're a senior citizen, disabled, etc.. regardless of if you killed them. They broke into your home, they brought knives, they were going to commit even more crimes. Swords may be big and bad and scary to stupid juries full of sheep, but if you were really justified in using lethal force, it will be cut and dried.

Again, if the situation didn't require use of lethal force, you shouldn't have brought the sword out in the first place, deal with it some other way.

As for swords not being for self defense, well I beg to differ. The katana could be seen as the original Japanese sidearm. There are better sidearms available now, but various legalities and drawbacks prevent them from being viable alternatives. I.E. guns - illegal in many places, illegal to use even in life or death self defense. Knives are good but don't give you range from an aggressor. Short swords are good too but offer shorter range from an aggressor.

Katana are long and give you a good 3 or 4 feet of distance from an attacker, they're heavy enough to get the job done, good ones won't break, but even if they do the broken part still has an edge and can cut people. And even the dumbest criminal is not stupid enough to try to grab your blade, so provided you have some kind of skill, that means you're sitting behind a shield the attacker probably won't try to get past, at least with his own body.. Doesn't stop anyone from shooting you or throwing something..

Yeah there's drawbacks, but there are pro's and con's to every self defense solution.

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#277940 - 08/15/06 10:28 PM Re: katana sharpening [Re: paradoxbox]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Sounds like what you need is a shotgun. Not a sword. It's a heck of a lot more intimidating. Don't even have to load it.

BTW, you shouldn't sell the iaito short. Paul is fond of relating the story of a guy at one of the Orlando Taikai who picked up the wrong sword before going out to cut in a tameshigiri competition. Did pretty well. Placed in the middle of the pack. Bent his iaito all up, but cut just fine.

Add that to the fact that most people can't tell the difference when looking, especially in poor light under the heightened tension of a combat situation...

Iaito are still too long to be used in the average modern house. There are walls, furniture, lamps, other people, etc. All of which can get in the way. A shotgun is a far better choice.

Somebody points a sword at you, and maybe you think about grabbing a pillow off the couch, or a lamp and taking the chance that you might be able to rush them. Or maybe they just pull out the saturday night special and shoot you. A shotgun strikes a ridiculous amount of fear into people. Any weapon which can blow you, quite literally into pieces... Well lets just say it's gonna make people run for the hills. Just hearing it cocked.

BTW, if you are so worried about an untimely death, I'm wondering what you are doing to prepare for traffic accidents. Far far more people die in traffic accidents every day than are killed in home invasions. Have you thought about having racing brakes installed in your car? how about a safety seat and a roll cage? Perhaps some extra defensive driving courses?


Edited by Charles Mahan (08/15/06 10:36 PM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#277941 - 08/16/06 01:24 AM Re: katana sharpening [Re: Charles Mahan]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
No need to give the shotgun talk on me, I already have 2, one specifically for blowing people away the minute they threaten me in my house (A 14inch barrel remington 870 12gauge shotgun legal in Canada but not the US! Go figure). But that's not an option for everyone.

Some countries have a policy where if you defend yourself with a gun, no matter the circumstance, you're going to jail for a long time. It would make sense to use an alternative in that case. Europe comes to mind.

It's also not the best option every time, or it could happen that the shotgun's on the other side of the house and you just happen to be near your dojo room, etc etc.

Swords may not be ideal for indoor defense but they're no slouch. As long as you're mindful of what's around you, you can still chop someone to bits, even inside your own home.. heh.

Keep in mind as well that a strong cut will go right through drywall very easily and unless you have terrible cutting skills, the kissaki probably cut through or bounce off of any studs in the wall.

The ceiling is a different story, but I've actually never had a problem with hitting the ceiling in my practice. Just keep your posture low and don't go crazy on the daijoudan thing.

There's a good scene in Tasogare Seibei (Twilight Samurai) where a samurai gets his sword stuck on a rafter inside his home after trying to strike down the main character in his home. Remember situations like that and you won't do it in real life either, whether in practice or real defense..

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#277942 - 08/16/06 08:50 AM Re: katana sharpening [Re: pgsmith]
shinsetsu777 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 3
Quote:

Quote:

I dunno Ben, if a burgler attacked you with a cutlass I think you'd be at a large disadvantage.



If a burgler attacked me with a cutlass, I'd think I was in a bad pirate movie! Sorry, but that is an absolutely ridiculous statement!
Quote:

They would either use their shotou or a specially made shortened katana known as a chisagatana, which were specifically for indoor fighting. The katana was hung up in the shrine at home.



Ummm .... no!
Chisagatana were not made specifically for fighting indoors. Katana were not hung up in shrines as nobody worshipped their swords. The katana was placed in the stand by the door that was there for that reason. You are correct in that a shoto would be used, if necessary, indoors.




Sorry, pg, went back and checked my sources. Seems I was blowing smoke about the chiisagatana. Thanks for the heads up

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