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#277788 - 08/09/06 09:15 PM what style should i train in?
Pong Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 12
Well I train in tae-kwon-do, but never with swords..I study swordsmanship on my own time with books and the internet(thank god for google!)and i am very good at spinning motions,slashes, and deep thrusts, Im looking for a style that will help me perfect these as well as strengthen the rest of my skills, so what sword art would be best for this?
(I use a standard curved 40" bokken)
Please leave the name of the style and a link to a website about it..or just the name if u dont have the time..
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#277789 - 08/09/06 10:00 PM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: Pong]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
spinning motions? hah. maybe you should look into XMA.

In any case, what I'd recommend is you completely forget everything you've taught yourself to do. It's quite apparent that it's not doing much good because you didn't use any of the correct terms for those movements.

Find a kendo dojo or an iaido dojo in your location and train there, then self training will become worthwhile.

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#277790 - 08/10/06 12:56 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: Pong]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Paradox, there are two times I ever do something that can be called a spinning motion with a blade. The first is my salute, which involves several 360 spins in various directions, the number depending on the amount of caffeine I've imbibed that morning. The second time, and only time during a bout, is when I pass my opponent and do a quick 180 spin with my arm to stab them in the back (being left handed has advantages). However, one of these is merely for showing off, and the other is a simple 180 degree swing of the arm and wrist, nothing to practice. The only other possible time that you should do anything spinning is when you are inches from your opponent and both blades are pointed high in the air, spin 180 and stab their foot before they get the same idea. How you practice that is practicing not getting into such a precarious situation.

Pong, you may think this is an odd question, but how's your footwork? Have you even thought about the lower half of your body? Don't be ashamed, most people don't when they pick up a blade. This is why you do not train without a teacher.

Sword footwork is extremely different from hand to hand footwork, and the various styles of swordsmanship create entirely different styles. Footwork in hand to hand is based on mobility and giving you power (note: generalization). Footwork in fencing is based off of getting you in and out quickly while keeping a stable platform for your upper body so you can aim and swing correctly. If you don't have a good foundation of proper footwork, you can forget everything now. For example, in traditional fencing instruction, we don't even give you a blade for months, it's entirely footwork. I don't know about my kenjitsu cousins, but I hope that the focus is there as well. If your footwork is improper, you might even injure yourself. I've heard stories about dislocated kneecaps and sprained/permanently damaged ankles from bad lunges, and my knees are getting sensitive to the weather despite having decent footwork.

Finally, swordsmanship isn't about killing as much as not getting killed. Parries, binds, and distance are as or even more important than the attacks, and they cannot be practiced alone (one of the weaknesses of kata based learning compared to bouting based). Learning from descriptions in books, pictures, or videos will lead you to failure, quite likely breaking your knee due to bad footwork.

My advice, there are six major ways.
Kenjitsu
Kendo
Iaido
Fencing
Kung Fu
Escrima

Pick one, learn from your instructor. Don't think you can learn everything from a book, because knowing the move is one thing, doing it is another, and doing it right is a whole 'nother ball game.
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#277791 - 08/10/06 01:26 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: Benjamin1986]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Since you mentioned fencing, we might as well mention ARMA as well, which although rare, usually has something pretty interesting to offer if you can find a place that does it.

http://www.thearma.org/

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#277792 - 08/10/06 09:50 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: paradoxbox]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Unless you are very very fortunate, happen to live in Seattle, or are willing to move across country or even to a different country, you won't have a lot of style's to pick from.

The sword arts, including fencing, arma, et all are fairly few and pretty far between. There is likely to be one or two sources of instruction near you, but that's about it.

Searching for the perfect style doesn't do you any good if it's not nearby. Perhaps the perfect style you settle on is Tenshin Katori Shinto Ryu. Unless you move to Seattle, you're pretty much screwed. Or Hoki Ryu, which is only available in Bloomington, Indiana and Japan so far as I know.

Typically the advice is to find out what training oppurtunities are available in your area, do some reasearch on those oppurtunities, and choose from that list.

And kiss the flashy spinning moves goodbye. You are not going to find a lot of spinning in the traditional sword world. Swords are made to kill people and they are very very good at it. Flashy things look good on camera but are very likely to get you killed in a real encounter. Addmittedly real sword fights never happen anymore, but the traditional world still trains as if they might. What would be the point otherwise. Without that focus on the reality of swordfighting, what you are left with is sword dancing.

If you tell us where you are, perhaps we can help you find something in your area.


Edited by Charles Mahan (08/10/06 09:51 AM)
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Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#277793 - 08/10/06 10:32 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: Pong]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Pong

What styles are available where you live????

You going to fly to Japan to study if I suggest a style that is ONLY available there?????

Let us know where your located (roughly) and maybe we can help you find something near there.

Oh, say it with me, say it with feeling!!!!

"YOU CAN'T LEARN MARTIAL ARTS FROM BOOKS, DVDS, OR THE INTERNET!!!!!!"

You might get "good" enough to impress equally clueless folks.
But to anyone that actually trains---you'll just be a joke.

Your choice.


Edited by cxt (08/10/06 10:37 AM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#277794 - 08/10/06 11:34 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: cxt]
Pong Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 12
Quote:


"YOU CAN'T LEARN MARTIAL ARTS FROM BOOKS, DVDS, OR THE INTERNET!!!!!!"

You might get "good" enough to impress equally clueless folks.
But to anyone that actually trains---you'll just be a joke.



OK first let me explain this to everyone... SPINNING MOTION meaning the Tansetsu Ransetsu move from the Yagyu style.I am pretty good at those kind of techniques. and no Im not good at technical terms, because ive never had any decent sword training.. I believe Kendo is available where i live, and I agree SOMEWHAT on the above quote.. Books, if you are a good learner and DO train with other similar martial arts, can do quite alot, but yyou are right that it is not as good as training.. WHICH I EXACTLY WHY I PUT THIS POST HERE!! TO FIND OUT WHICH STYLE TO TRAIN IN!!!!
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#277795 - 08/10/06 11:41 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: Pong]
Pong Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 12
and when that 180 degree turn u mentioned for me is called Gokui, LIsten I AM TRYING to find a school, and also the only names i know are from the Yagyu style from a book, and also from my EXTREMELY limited Bahng-Mahn-Gi training( I believe i spelled it right)in Tae-Kwon-do.. and please do not mock me for trying to LEARN...who knows, someday i may surpass you..when im like this=
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#277796 - 08/10/06 11:49 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: Benjamin1986]
Pong Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 12
Quote:

Parries, binds, and distance are as or even more important than the attacks, and they cannot be practiced alone (one of the weaknesses of kata based learning compared to bouting based). Learning from descriptions in books, pictures, or videos will lead you to failure, quite likely breaking your knee due to bad footwork.




I agree with you(and sorry for posting so much in a row.. Lots of stuf to reply to) but i never said i practiced alone.. I practice with a good friend of mine who is learning with me. also you CAN learn to do something correctly from a book if there is a good enough description and a diagram or 2. Defense is also very important to me, as I practice short-scale parrying, and long scale parrying, more than i do techniques. I use a HUGE amount of time practicing stances and footwork, while defending and atacking. And remember i dont use the correct terms, because they have different names in different styles, even within the same country!( EG. In tae-kwon-do you have your round kick, but in Hwa-rang-do its caled a chop-kick.. both Korean, different names)
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#277797 - 08/10/06 11:52 AM Re: what style should i train in? [Re: Pong]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Pong

No, nobody is "mocking" you for trying to learn.

Not doing so now, but I will be happy to "mock" you for asking for help--then not listening to the exact information your asking for.

You say you don't know, you ask the questions.

You really should be paying attention to the answers.

Folks around here DO KNOW.

Your just not happy with the answers your getting---so you want to argue about it.

What your doing by training from a book is NOT helping you--its HURTING you.
You may "think" your doing a cut from a book correctly---but your probabaly not even close.

AGAIN--where do live????????

(roughly---like which city or State would help)

We can't very well point you in the right direction if we don't say the city/State you live in now can we???????


Edited by cxt (08/10/06 11:56 AM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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