FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 32 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 14
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 3
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Throwing
by
04/23/05 10:58 PM
Recent Posts
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/29/14 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:53 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
07/24/14 11:35 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432455 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#276779 - 08/03/06 12:42 PM Text book perfect!
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I'll let the clip speak for itself, but just add an "Oh yes baby!".

http://www.psfights.com/details.php?image_id=592

_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#276780 - 08/03/06 12:48 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Nice hit, right on the button. Lights out!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#276781 - 08/03/06 05:14 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: MattJ]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I liek the headbutt, too!
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#276782 - 08/03/06 05:23 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
so was the guy that won, defending his girls or what? It looks like the one guy was talking to the chic then the guy comes off the bar. Then it lays out the guy talking to his chic and takes out the other too. Is that how everyone else saw it?
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

Top
#276783 - 08/03/06 05:25 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
Ayub Offline
heartbreaker, lifetaker

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: London, UK
He got out of there pretty quick too. Hes an allrounder ;-)
_________________________
Cut me Mick!

Top
#276784 - 08/03/06 05:27 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Ayub]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I watched is serveral times. NIICE!! That last guy that fell out was too funny....
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

Top
#276785 - 08/03/06 11:36 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.
Not only did that guy get ko'd,but he got owned aswell.
_________________________
http://www.hotforwords.com

Top
#276786 - 08/04/06 07:07 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Just goes to show that if a situation is getting nasty then get your fence up. If the guy who copped the headbutt had got his hands up he could have stopped the guy from connecting.
Easy to sit here and judge though.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

Top
#276787 - 08/05/06 09:12 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: McSensei]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Well, you don't let anyone into your "space" for one thing. Kind of hard to do in nightclubs where EVERYONE is in your space. But it shouldn't be too hard to read aggression or a situation that's going south quick. Physically, you don't let anyone come into your space without having your hands in front of you.

Honestly, things like this often come as the result of someone not staying aware / alert and using their brain.


-John

Top
#276788 - 08/06/06 10:31 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JasonM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
This is what might have happened
The story of Kid candle or the guy in the vidio!!!

Man with two women at the bar kissing one and the other woman touching/making hand gestures to them for security/protection. and because she is being partly ignored

His body language indictes him showing his dominance/protection over both women
Now includes second woman in to his attention.

meanwhile

Small guy dancing with a man other mans choice.
Small man decides he wants a woman indicated by body
language.

Decided its crap because man at the bar has two women and he has none
Body language indicates small man strutting to get the courage to speak to one of the man at the bars women

Small guy taps women on shoulder asks her to come and speak to him while man at the bar is talking to her.
Small guys body language indicates contempt/confrontation
with the guy at the bar

The “what has it got to do with you attitude" for the guy at the bar is indicated by the small guy tipping his head /chin up
Wrong move small guy indicating confrontation in his body language to get the guy at the bar to back down so he can talk to the woman

Wrong move in trying to steal the guy at the bars second woman.
Man at the bar might have said something to small guy
Small guy might have answered back

Woman turns talks to small guy hands gesturing as if to say what do you want? body language indicating to the small guy
"well realy im talking to him but you sort of look ok and he is with my female friend? sister? lover?? etc.

Man with two women walks around the woman now talking to the small guy
Small guy sees and hears the threat so moves to the side showing submissive behaviour by attempting to hide behind the woman.

His attempt by using body language on the guy at the bar has failed and now he cant back it up.
Guy grabs and head butts small guy who is now knocked out
and getting attention from a woman albeit the wrong woman and not much use because he is out cold. But I suppose he got what he wanted a woman to pay him attention.

And on awakaning the small guy might have heard the dreaded one liners from the female of;

Me and my friends are going to call you

Kid Candle.

One blow and your out!!!

Or

was your mind intentionally left blank???

Meanwhile

Passer bye gets hit because he touched the guy who did the head butt on the shoulder
The punch to the passer by was so so slow in coming that he should have reacted first

Talk about stupid . It was telegraphed.
Mean while the man at the bars woman is dancing away
untill her friend tells her what her lover has done

Small guy should have asked the guy at the bar if it would be ok to chat with the 2nd woman as well as asking the woman if she wanted to chat? In a none threatening
Manner. She had turned and talked to him indicating some form of attraction
Small guys should have seen that the guy from the bar was going to do something from his body language .

The guy def need some form of training.Both in his self defence and in his chatting up women routine.
That kind of head butt would only work on a none fighter.

I Like the way the doorman arrives after the event!!!!
The doormen should have been looking for this type of event to happen.
Unless the night club/pub was undermanned of course???




Edited by ANDY44 (08/06/06 01:09 PM)

Top
#276789 - 08/06/06 10:52 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


The doormen should have been looking for this type of event to happen.

Unless the night club/pub was undermanned





Or the doormen were just big and stupid. I've encountered PLENTY of that variety.


-John

Top
#276790 - 08/06/06 11:08 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Nice guess, Andy, more than likely wrong, though.

Top
#276791 - 08/06/06 01:12 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JoelM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Quote:

Nice guess, Andy, more than likely wrong, though.




Does than mean you dont think the small guy was called KID CANDLE??

One blow and he is out?




Top
#276792 - 08/06/06 01:15 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Both people went down after one shot. I'm not disagreeing with that, but with your fanciful analysis of the events based off of a fuzzy security camera with no sound.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#276793 - 08/06/06 02:10 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JoelM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Hi there


My conclusions were based on body language some thing I have had to learn to read over the years and one of the reasons why I am still around and healthy and in one piece.

I dont think apart from the specualtion/jokes that any thing was fanciful but rather from the reading of body language and experience.

Courts go by body language not just by the spoken word.

The shots were on the scale of good to bad

Bad

The guy who threw them was bang out of order he could have settled the argument with out them.

As regards the technical aspect

He grabbed and then head butted. Stupid move.

One defence to a head butt is to lower the head so the head butter ends up getting head butted in the face.

The punch.

Took to long in throwing it.


Both were against un trained fighters
un prepared people so the techniques looked good.



I think if this vidio went to court then the head butt would be guilty go to prison

the punch well border line


The small guy no charge what ever



Ous.









Edited by ANDY44 (08/06/06 08:15 PM)

Top
#276794 - 08/06/06 08:26 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JoelM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
From J Kogas

Well, you don't let anyone into your "space" for one thing. Kind of hard to do in nightclubs where EVERYONE is in your space. But it shouldn't be too hard to read aggression or a situation that's going south quick. Physically, you don't let anyone come into your space without having your hands in front of you.

Honestly, things like this often come as the result of someone not staying aware / alert and using their brain

Or the doormen were just big and stupid. I've encountered PLENTY of that variety.



Hi John Kogas.

I agree totaly with your above statement.Both the guys who got hit should have been thinking like that then the guy doing the hitting couldnt have done what he did.

The doorman/men should have seen the signs and stopped it before it got to the hitting stage
Although in this country they have tried to train doormen by making them do courses before they get a doormans badge which includes reading the signs for problems.

.






Just an after thought,




If they were all jumping about and talking to each other in fairly close proximity that would indicate loud music there fore voices might be difficult to understand.

All the more reason to be aware of body language.



Edited by ANDY44 (08/06/06 10:00 PM)

Top
#276795 - 08/06/06 08:39 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JoelM]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Hi Joel. I am curious what you think went down. I still have no idea.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

Top
#276796 - 08/06/06 09:04 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JasonM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
so was the guy that won, defending his girls or what? It looks like the one guy was talking to the chic then the guy comes off the bar. Then it lays out the guy talking to his chic and takes out the other too. Is that how everyone else saw it?


Answer
No he wasnt defending his girls.
The chick decided to talk to the guy
Yes he did lay out the guy talking to one of the chics
Yes he did lay out the other guy( the one who got a punch) because the other guy put his hand on his shoulder,




Edited by ANDY44 (08/06/06 09:48 PM)

Top
#276797 - 08/06/06 09:48 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JasonM]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I have no idea. We have no idea who is with who, although it doesn't seem that the headbutter is there with the headbuttee. The headbuttee does not seem to congenially approach the girl, but more of an aggressive move from behind. But of course we can't even tell if he makes comment to the female or the male or he entire group.

The guy who gets punched out to me seems to have been with the guy who was headbutted. Why else would he stay in contact with the aggressor?

As for the security force, nobod knows how big this place is or if the security was dealing with other problems. As for them seeing the problem and intervening, there was only 12 seconds between when he approaches the man and woman and gets headbutted.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#276798 - 08/06/06 10:13 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JoelM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
There was the signs of tension between the two
the head butter and the head buttee for some time with glances etc



The fact that the other two as passer byes(one of whom got punched) walked up when the head buttee made his move on the girl was
another sign.Yes

Security should have picked up on the postering/Body language of all of the people who were involved.

I dont think it matters where the sucurity were

The place where the incident happened wasnt to crowded.
If the complaint goes in to the police of constant fights then the licencee loses his licence.

More than likely the two who got knocked out would have had to be logged in an accidents book and would have been seen to by an ambulance crew etc.

Just my thoughts
Still think it is poor security.





Edited by ANDY44 (08/06/06 10:30 PM)

Top
#276799 - 08/07/06 07:18 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

Bad

The guy who threw them was bang out of order he could have settled the argument with out them.

As regards the technical aspect

He grabbed and then head butted. Stupid move.

One defence to a head butt is to lower the head so the head butter ends up getting head butted in the face.

The punch.

Took to long in throwing it.


Both were against un trained fighters
un prepared people so the techniques looked good.




I can't even be bothered to address some of the comments about the security you mentioned but the above comments are obviously coming from someone who's never worked a real door.

So for the technical. Firstly the headbutt. The guy used the ploy of deception to close the range, letting the girl distract the guy he nutted. In grabbing (apart from closing his hands down) he ragged him forwards whiplashing his neck jolting chin out for a perfect set up for being sparked out (like he was!). This guy has definately used his head before.

As for the punch the guy hardly broke out of a walk to do it. No winding up a punch and was able to throw it without taking a stance. Perfect short off angle shot that landed perfectly. I've meet very very few MA's who could repeat that feat. Most need to drop into a stance and raise their hands before they can fire. This guy had a perfect natural punch that done exactly what it was supposed. Again I've meet very few MA's who can fire from the hip like that.

This guy is an experienced fighter who knows how to use deception, positioning, natural body movement and escape routes. He'd demolish your average MA or self defence dude before they even knew they was in the fight. I've had the distinct pleasure of working and knowing some very effective street fighters who for the most part move like this guy did and have taken out trained fighters. I remember working a door with one very good friend who had a boxer squaring up with him whilst he was on the phone (ringing for backup) and sat the guy straight on his behind the hand he wasn't on the phone with.

In my opinion that clip shows more about the realities of how to knock someone out and fight in real life than virtually all of the MA clips I've seen (including my own!). My opinion is take notes and train to move like that. Anyone who isn't impressed with the technical side of that is severely deluded and hasn't got a clue what they are talking about, IMVHO ofcourse.

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#276800 - 08/07/06 11:18 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Hi Gavin

Some people have worked security. In fact part of one of their jobs was to sit and watch a TV screen in Glasgow and look for signs of poss violance.
Body language from would be violant scenarios.
The other part of the job was to be on the floor in a team re acting to the guys observations sitting in front of the TV screen .

And the guy in the vidio if his standard of fighting is all you have to bother with then you have an easy job.
The two guys he ko,d were total none fighters
If you say this guy could beat most MA,s then all I can say is the MA, s need better trained.

The head butt
The headbuttee the small guy had already seen the guy coming around the girl and backed off looking partly down
There is a pause between the guy getting his distance and the head butt.

The only reason the small guy was grabbed was because he didnt want to fight.
Look at his body language
Your head butter isnt quick enough.
You might think he is but I dont.

The punch
The guys reaction time from the the guy putting his hand in his shoulder to the strike was to long.
Again the guy who got punched showed no indication of fighting.

The guy who did the striking ran away but dumber than dumb forget it was on vidio.
So he is recorded head butting a guy who was moving backwards from him indicating he doesnt want to fight

Total guilty in court.

If the small guy was moving to him then he might of got away with it in court there again he might not have
Not so clued up then is he?

Do you have any more?
Except this time some what better fighters please and not guys who like to hit none fighters.
Regards punching!!
The late Sensies Kimura and Enoeda
had them down to a fine art.If you would like to improve your speed in your punching skills might I suggest you seek out any body who trained with him?

I have seen MA,s throw faster punches than your man.
Could name a few but I wont,
And regards he would demolish your average self defence dude?
I don think so least ways not the people I see training. Must be different levels of fighting around this country?

What pay are you doormen getting where you live??
Any jobs if it is high pay?


Just a small point I was wondering why are you looking towards so called
street fighters for inspiration? To work technique against perhaps.
I wouldnt want to move like your man.He is wide open and to slow .

If most green belts had a mind to strike someone who wouldnt hit back I think you would see the same results.
Difference is green belts wouldnt.Well the ones I know wouldnt

Ous





Edited by ANDY44 (08/07/06 11:47 AM)

Top
#276801 - 08/07/06 11:50 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I concur with Gavin.

And Andy, u assume alot from a vid that is not perfect and no sound. U have no idea what the headuttee said or may have had in his hands. I would have hoped to acted the same with. I feel threatened, even with his hand down I am going to react. You have got to be stupid to put your hands on someone that just laid out your friend or whomever with a headbutt. As a defender you have no idea who the person is touching u, so you should react. I think he handled it perfectly.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

Top
#276802 - 08/07/06 12:02 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
In most clubs and this one looks to be quite small most do not have a dedicated man on the cameras usually someone sitting on a reception with an eye on the cctv and the other dealing with members of the public. Either that or you have it in the managers office who will be more busy cashing up the till and watching that barstaff aren't skimming. Admitedly the guys who got done should and probably were being watched that being said from the intial contact of the 2 guys to point of assualt was about 15 seconds. This is hardly enough time to put a shout out and for the guys on the floor to asses the location the situation and those invovled let alone get to it.

Guy wasn't being aggressive? The bloke called it on, went to shift position when the bloke approached round his girlfriend and got nutted before he could reposiotion himself to give it some more verbal. The guys (who got nutted) body language to me was that of an oppotunist who gives it the mouth from a distance and cracks when confronted. A weasal who'd more than likely snipe you later on in the night.

As for the dumber than dumber getting caught on camera I very much doubt he thought about the cameras. Once the adrenaline dumps that would be the last thing. What he did, under stressful conditions was dispatch 2 guys very quickly (one of whom had called it on) and got out of dodge. Kudos goes out to the girl who was with him aswell. Slips very discreetly out of the frame. The video footage is not clear enough to secure a conviction and the girls who knew who he was discreetly left the scene. The old bill don't like work and I very much doubt whether this guy got nicked.

As for what makes better fighters? Those that don't fight and finish them before they start, exactly what you saw in these clips. The straightner or one on one is a myth. The more time you spend fighting the greater the odds of you getting hurt. You've got two choices, fight or flight. This guy picked fight and finished ir quickly.

The headbutt was fine in my books... ever thrown and landed one out of interest?

As for punching if I get a chance to hook uo with any of Kimura's students I will, all though no one has ever said my punches were slow. As for seeing faster MA's throw punches, completely agree. How many have you seen throw shots and land them positively on the street? As you were kind enough to suggest a path of further study I'll return with a suggest of reading some of Dennis Jones's stuff. Dennis is probably one of the best people I've trained with at explaining how to KO on the street, if you ever get a chance to train with him I'd highly recomend it.

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#276803 - 08/08/06 06:05 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JasonM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
The head butter wasnt threatend
The headbutter might have picked up the headbuttees body language wrongly.
Either way the headbutter approached /
went to the headbuttee
I dont think he handled it perfectly plenty of room for improvement in his fighting skills, for starters he is a rigth hand wonder, no gaurd when he punches, he punches off line, leaves him self wide open and has major flaws in his methods that would be picked up on by a seasoned expereinced fighter.

The only good thing is it would make a doormans job easier providing they were trained


Question is what would the headbutter types do if they were?



Edited by ANDY44 (08/08/06 06:38 AM)

Top
#276804 - 08/08/06 06:18 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
The headbutt was fine in my books... ever thrown and landed one out of interest?

Yes I Have Gavin, enough of them.
But I am not going in to a testostorone over drive.I save that for the gym/dojo

HI there.Gavin
I will read the dennis jones article later thanks

I think you intended the vidio as a learning method so here are my thoughts.

The man the head butter made to many mistakes to be an experienced fighter. I have outlined what I think as regards the fighting/self defence aspect.

But
Again the head buttee did not want to fight
I don’t agree with what the head butter did

Either way

His body language was strutting for a female.
Regards the head butter using the girl for cover he did at first then he got it wrong
He had nothing in his hand or made any move to attack the the headbutter.

Regards the technical aspect of this head butt he only got away with it because the head buttee was passive.
First mistake the headbutter did was to
Walk towards the head buttee using the girl as cover but then lost the cover allowing the head buttee to see his intentions and leaving his face wide open.

If the headbuttee had have been a fighter he could have got his first body weigth loaded strike in here.

Poss a right hand
The head butter was at this point at a disadvange in that the woman was in the way so all he would have had was a left hand arm shot.No weigth behind the punch because the woman was in the way. He had no use of his right fist, feet head etc.

There fore the head buttee could have won a confrontation at this point.
The headbutter continues around the girl showing the head buttee more of the head butters body /target area, groin face etc while still putting his self in to a bad position although now having the use of his left hand with weigth now available.Th head buttee is still at an advantage, he has full body weigth for his strikes.
The second mistake was the head butter positioned his self so that he allowed a person to be directly behind him,while facing the headbuttee..


Third mistake
Head butter still moving around the girl
Head butter gave the head buttee his face/neck/chin jaw/he was so close and wide open on his approach . His face angle was wrong..
Fourth mistake the head butters right punching hand was going to be interfered with by his to close positioning to the girl .
Fifth mistake the head butter has grabbed head butte with two hands, The head butter has lifted his own head up again giving his face chin neck to the headbuttee. The head butter is leaning slightly backwards with out neutralising the headbuttees hands while stepping back with his foot.
The had butt is thrown I will give the head butter his due he did seem to use use the top of his head to head butt with. He got that part correct. and the head buttee is pushed on to the floor.another correct move from the head butter.


The two men behind him try to stop him he brings up his fist from the hip to hit the smaller one

.
So he showed his intention
Slips in to a stance left foot forward no cover whats so ever. Gaven
The guy he is about to hit could have hit the headbutter here with a left hand he was wide open.He didnt because he didnt want to.
The head butter got the shot in

All in all a guy who has something,not much but im afraid it was against people who couldnt figth or didnt want to fight.

I dont think the headbuttee was capable of jumping anybody if he did he would have been a joke.
He was not a fighter
.

Give the headbutter some training he might become good.
But i am not sure his types should be trained.
.

Thanks Gavin.



Edited by ANDY44 (08/08/06 06:52 AM)

Top
#276805 - 08/08/06 07:28 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Proof is in the pudding with me. I've heard lots of people talk and break things down, explain the theory and then fail badly to land stuff when done so against a live resisting opponent in the dojo... take it to the street and the stuff goes out the window even more. My opinion is this is a great clip to look at on how to land shots in a live environment. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#276806 - 08/08/06 08:57 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
You saw the head butter made many mistakes. But he is the one that fled injury free. It comes down to if the headbutter felt threatened. We can watch and assume all we want, but have no idea on the words that were exchanged, etc.

Like Gavin said, we agree to disagree.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

Top
#276807 - 08/08/06 11:43 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Andy,

I've got to agree with the others and as Mr Moyer said, the headbutter is the one who walks away from the situation.

You've pointed out several mistakes the guy made, but I'd rather be the guy who makes loads of mistakes and walks away than the guy that is technically perfect and spends the night in hospital.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

Top
#276808 - 08/08/06 01:35 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Proof is in the pudding with me. I've heard lots of people talk and break things down, explain the theory and then fail badly to land stuff when done so against a live resisting opponent in the dojo... take it to the street and the stuff goes out the window even more. My opinion is this is a great clip to look at on how to land shots in a live environment. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


Hi Gavin
I have heard the BS from theorists exactly as you describe
I have trained on seminars with BS people you describe.
But at the end of the day if I was in that situation( and I have been plenty of times) and an attack simular to that one was coming at me and I had to defend my self then the attackers commonly made fundimental street fighters mistakes would be his down fall.
These mistakes are common to lots of street fighters.

But as we say we will have to agree to disagree

As regards not coming up with the goods in the dojo

I train with a good set of lads.Gavin.

.
We avoid Bs where we train
To many experienced handy guys.
and some that arent.


Thanks




Edited by ANDY44 (08/08/06 02:02 PM)

Top
#276809 - 08/08/06 01:41 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: McSensei]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Andy,

I've got to agree with the others and as Mr Moyer said, the headbutter is the one who walks away from the situation.

You've pointed out several mistakes the guy made, but I'd rather be the guy who makes loads of mistakes and walks away than the guy that is technically perfect and spends the night in hospital.


Hi there.

Well I can see your point but if a person made the mistakes the headbutter made on the vidio against a decent fighter then that person technical or not is going to lose




Thanks



Edited by ANDY44 (08/08/06 02:39 PM)

Top
#276810 - 08/08/06 01:51 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: JasonM]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
You saw the head butter made many mistakes. But he is the one that fled injury free. It comes down to if the headbutter felt threatened. We can watch and assume all we want, but have no idea on the words that were exchanged, etc


Hi there

Yes you are correct, I think he mis took the head buttees strutting for a woman to be aggresive behavoire but the definite article here is that the headbutter made basic fundimental mistakes.
He was lucky the head buttee wasnt a fighter.

I have pointed out his flaws. These flaws are common to a lot of street fighters.


If Im going to be attacked then I would rather the attacker had these flaws.
I would rather not be attacked but I dont make the rules.
But isnt that what self defence is about?



Thanks

Andy


Edited by ANDY44 (08/08/06 01:58 PM)

Top
#276811 - 08/08/06 02:10 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Gavin]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
What I saw was a lack of team work the bouncers in the same colored T-shrits look like them were caught off guard. When he grabbed the smaller guy and began this assualt, before the head butted him, they should have been on the aggressor, while verbal commanding the smaller guy to stand down.

As they both of them held the aggressor. Which would have stopped the head butt and the bouncer from being KO'd.

If things happened too fast, radio the front door for more help, the bouncer were in T-shirt and jeans look like a rolling block or dbl leg, would have tackled the guy as he approached. I had a buddy staggered by a face blow, bc he was too nicely dressed to hit the floor.

I mean protecting the clients & establishment is not the only reason bouncers, bounce. There are perks being KO'd is not one of them, but it happens.

Lag in responce time and Lack of Team work. The why, It happen is unimportant. Tell it to the judge or the cops, you're out of here. Till tomorrow night.

The guys technique I won't rate him, it worked and thats all that count in a bar fight. My 2 cent.


Edited by Neko456 (08/08/06 02:13 PM)

Top
#276812 - 08/08/06 02:36 PM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: Neko456]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Lag in responce time and Lack of Team work. The why, It happen is unimportant. Tell it to the judge or the cops, you're out of here. Till tomorrow night

Hi Neko

Yep. Def getting fired from the job material.
Most observant doormen would have started to pick up things when the headbuttee was doing his woman strutting stuff long time before the headbutter approached the headbuttee.
Then slowly headed in that direction and watched as the scene unfolds.


Top
#276813 - 08/09/06 03:43 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: McSensei]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Hi just an after thought

In a street fight or any fight for the matter positioning is everything.
I have pointed out the headbutters bad positioning based on the vidio therefore what happend.
So I dont think that is classed as a theory more reality.

Either way its there if required.

Thanks


Edited by ANDY44 (08/09/06 03:44 AM)

Top
#276814 - 08/14/06 02:12 AM Re: Text book perfect! [Re: ANDY44]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Andy444 wrote - Yep. Def getting fired from the job material.


Neko456 - They won't fire you for getting Ko'd thats sorta like earning your stripes. Usually these places are short handed as you can tell initation is not kind, but thats what you get paid for to take one so the customers don't have to.

The only time I rememeber a guy quitting not fired was after being KO'd and left in a car wash. Poor team work he was big and thought he didn't need team work. WRONG!!! His wife asked that he quit, Little George (of course a big ole dude) didn't want to but she feared for his safety because they had just had a baby boy, Lit.. George jr.

Getting rough up is part of the job, even with good team work, in some of those Cat fights, a girls almost bite your fingers off, trying to get back at the other woman!!
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  Cord, Dedicated1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga