FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 24 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BUJU, Pilsungkarate, ALF, old1, Leonar
22928 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ronin1966 3
futsaowingchun 2
ergees 2
GojuRyuboy13 2
AndyLA 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Forum Stats
22928 Members
36 Forums
35584 Topics
432513 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#274168 - 07/23/06 06:35 AM Silat Stick fighting clip
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrN_0Vvs3dc&search=silat%20stick

It starts off a little slow, but then the poor guy assisting has to put a helmet on.....
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#274169 - 07/23/06 10:22 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Prizewriter]
JustGuess Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 72
Loc: Indiana
Not bad, even though it just looks like Escrima to me. I guess that's to be expected considering both arts have influenced each other to a certain degree.

I've never done those types of drills with a guy wearing armor. It looks like a good way to practice technique at something approaching full force, which is always a plus. Too bad there wasn't a sparring demo. Thats where the real test of skill is.

Top
#274170 - 07/23/06 11:02 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JustGuess]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Another good "demonstration" of 'art'.

Otherwise, 90% of it was garbage.

IMO of course.


-John

Top
#274171 - 07/23/06 03:49 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JKogas]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Looks more like some of our mid ranked students do when warming up with a few disarms and some strike patterns.

The sinawali wasn't particularly flash.
Some of my orange belts [6th kyu] do it a lot better IMHO!
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

Top
#274172 - 07/23/06 04:12 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Reiki]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I couldn't stop laughing at the sounds the "targets" were making when they were practicing with the armor!

Top
#274173 - 07/23/06 07:01 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: ShikataGaNai]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Quote:

I couldn't stop laughing at the sounds the "targets" were making when they were practicing with the armor!





Loved the sound effects, "ping, pang, oooof!"

Top
#274174 - 07/23/06 08:22 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Prizewriter]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Here is what *I* call stick fighting:

Real Contact



-John

Top
#274175 - 07/23/06 08:42 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JKogas]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
I liked how he got to whack that guy's head in the demo, hahah, what I would give to do that a few times!

And John, nice video. MMA expanded even more. I like he says you can fight with any kind of weapon you want. Nunchaku, boken, tonfa, sticks, staff, endless choices!! It represent alot of what Kali fighting is I guess. Starting with a weapon and then eventually you progress to when you no longer have a weapon, which is empty hand fighting. Nice find.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

Top
#274176 - 07/23/06 08:53 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: IExcalibui2]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
It IS the ultimate expresion of MMA anywhere! No judges or scoring system, referees or trophies. About as perfect as you can get.

And for those who don't know, that is NOT training session. Training is toned down. They don't engage like that but twice per year.


-John

Top
#274177 - 07/24/06 04:13 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JKogas]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Yep, and they have to "know" you for you to be admitted to fight in a gathering, and you can't be a "dog" without doing a few gatherings. As cool as it would be if everyone trained this way, it will never happen. The dog bros are carefully regimented as to not allow for the suckerfish of today's letiguous society to infiltrate their ranks and possibly do harm to their organization. However, if you go to their site they do offer the opportunity to train with them for a day or more exclusively. Even if you don't go "full contact", I would imagine it would be immensely helpful for your stick/knife fighting and I plan to take advantage of this as soon as possible. Just don't forget it's ok to have fun with kali too. The back alley behind your house, some pals and padded sticks can always make for an exciting sunday afternoon.

Top
#274178 - 07/24/06 08:50 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JustGuess Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 72
Loc: Indiana
Quote:

Just don't forget it's ok to have fun with kali too. The back alley behind your house, some pals and padded sticks can always make for an exciting sunday afternoon.




You LARP don't you?

Top
#274179 - 07/24/06 09:38 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JustGuess]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Oh yeah. All the time. Only with bruises and lots of sweat. Even some blood. Yep, nothing but live action dungeons and dragons in my kali. Just keepin it real

Top
#274180 - 07/24/06 10:06 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Just don't forget it's ok to have fun with kali too. The back alley behind your house, some pals and padded sticks can always make for an exciting sunday afternoon.





Couldn't have said it better myself. We're actually working a lot more of that into our rotation (although we've not had the chance over the past couple of weeks, I hope to get back to that).

Nice post!


-John

Top
#274181 - 07/24/06 10:40 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JKogas]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
its kind of crazy that one of those guys took several puno (butt end of the stick) shots into the back...musta hurt like crazy. I wonder what are the more "wierder" weapons people bring in there.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

Top
#274182 - 07/24/06 11:49 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: IExcalibui2]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
The kicks to the groin after bonking his head are pretty funny.

Top
#274183 - 07/25/06 12:30 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: IExcalibui2]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Quote:

I wonder what are the more "wierder" weapons people bring in there.



They often bring garden hoses to whip the crap out of eachother with. I guess that's pretty weird.

Top
#274184 - 07/26/06 09:47 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JustGuess]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

Quote:

Just don't forget it's ok to have fun with kali too. The back alley behind your house, some pals and padded sticks can always make for an exciting sunday afternoon.




You LARP don't you?




I sort of do too, except with us its serious stuff and we use proper steel armour, shields and swords. And we do it from horseback at the gallop. Nothing beats that for fun!
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

Top
#274185 - 07/27/06 06:10 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Reiki]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I was kidding about LARPing, just for clarification. Not that there's anything wrong with it AT ALL, I just don't actually do it and don't want to be a poser.

Top
#274186 - 07/27/06 07:24 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: ShikataGaNai]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
whats LARPing?
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

Top
#274187 - 07/27/06 10:36 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: IExcalibui2]
JustGuess Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 72
Loc: Indiana
Live Action Role Playing.

LARPers are the people D&D nerds make fun of. Actually I hear the German LARPing can be pretty good, mostly because they actually hit each other hard enough to almost make it a real fight.

Top
#274188 - 07/27/06 11:11 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JustGuess]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
D&D make fun of LARPing??...I'm sure some of them do it themselves
thanks for the info
I find it extremely wierd, especially when they start to live the lives of their characters rather themselves...
Now imagine a person with weapons training LARPing...UNSTOPPABLE
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

Top
#274189 - 07/27/06 11:22 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: IExcalibui2]
JustGuess Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 72
Loc: Indiana
Quote:

D&D make fun of LARPing??...I'm sure some of them do it themselves




Some do, and some don't. It doesn't stop them poking fun though.


Quote:

I find it extremely wierd, especially when they start to live the lives of their characters rather themselves...
Now imagine a person with weapons training LARPing...UNSTOPPABLE



I think most of the ones that actually start training tend to end up in actual reenactment groups where they try to recreate actual Medieval and Renaissance fighting styles, rather than the movie versions.

----------
that's basically what we do.

Serious sword, spear and lance work all on horseback.

No moviestyle stuff, its all proper weapons and armour and technique.


Edited by Reiki (07/29/06 10:00 PM)

Top
#274190 - 07/28/06 12:23 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JustGuess]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
It is cool - like civil war reenactments or samurai battles. But somehow I don't think many of them are into Kali silat. Speaking of which, what were we posting about again?

Top
#274191 - 07/30/06 07:40 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
yes we'd best keep this on topic hadn't we.

Back to the stick fighting chaps!

Just as a general comment it is interesting to see so many similarities in all the different styles of stick fighting.

Mainly because there are only so many things you can do with a stick and a pair of hands and feet. They all end up looking similar but have different names for the techniques.
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

Top
#274192 - 07/31/06 12:48 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Reiki]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
That brings sort of an interesting point to my attention about Kali (I call it all Kali for my own convenience) - the stick techniques don't vary that much in execution. Angles are angles, the wing/roof block is pretty universal - I think we're all aware of that. There is great range in combinations of course: modern arnis seems to utilize straightforward, beautifully simple techniques while say Inosanto Kali crams as many strikes into half a second as it can and can make your head spin. Both are equally effective. That being said, has anyone noticed any drastic differences in the FOOTWORK from system to system? I've noticed a lot of people who incorporate Kali into their "core art" often just adopt their respective styles footwork when stick fighting. Boxers tend to go left leg forward, wing chunners stand square - you get the idea. Are there any styles that utilize a very specific footwork? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

Top
#274193 - 07/31/06 05:10 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Excellent post!

Ok chaps lets get this discussion fired up!
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

Top
#274194 - 08/03/06 12:37 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Reiki]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
well doesnt Kali have its own set of footwork itself? Basically stepping out to the sides, its pretty similar to southern mantis in my opinion in terms of footwork. But with my encounter with Modern Arnis they encorporated Karate into their empty hand system so their stance is alot lower than when they are striking with a stick (just from my experience from sparring the the Arnis guy). Stick they stand taller while empty hand they're lower.

And WC guys do stand very square ish. But from watching I find it very limiting in terms of the striking of the weapon . And also the stance seems to give the attacker lots of space to comin and strike with the stick. Or maybe it was just his inability to be more adaptful and skilled with the stick....thats probably it

Anyhow I believe that the footwork doesnt seem to change all that much because the stick is a projection of a persons arm. This idea seems to be pretty common across most martial arts out there. Therefore hand techniques would be similar thus the footwork remaining relatively the same as well.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

Top
#274195 - 05/29/07 07:26 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: IExcalibui2]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
Nice videos. NIce way to train like that. I miss the good old days. The only ones tougher in the training than the Dog Brothers are the guys from Sayoc. Really tough dudes. Hope I can get a chance to see or participate in of their gatherings.

Top
#274196 - 05/29/07 08:54 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: shantungks]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I've heard about the Sayoc guys but I don't know how you get any tougher than "real contact".

I suppose you could do "real contact" knife fighting....



-John

Top
#274197 - 05/29/07 10:36 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: JKogas]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Sayoc Kali got a really big profile boost when the american chief instructors got involved with training Benicio Del Toro and Tommy Lee Jones for the film 'The Hunted' (it was a sort of update on First Blood, but with loads of CQC instead of explosions). they took that exposure and ran with it; and i have to say that my initial investigation into filipino arts was inspired by the concepts portrayed in the movie. As it happened there was no Sayoc in my area, but we did have Doce Pares, so I went with that and it proved to be a good move. sayoc as a style of kali/escrima is not inherently 'tougher' than any other, indeed, much of the technique will be very similar to the many other family variations of FMA available, and will also be part and parcel of what the Dog Bro's do. The big difference is that the Dog Bro's encourage controlled full force work to help you seperate what is good in reality from what is good in theory.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274198 - 06/04/07 03:20 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
True Cord very true. Dog Brothers encourage the full force work but the SAYOC guys once you are ready to go higher on the ladder you must do certain things that is best that it not be mention here. But Involves blood and beyond. The system is not tougher than any other is just the training at a higher level gets, lets just say crazier.

JKogas about the real contact knife fighting yes it does involve that at the higher level. TRain with them very hard and take everything they give and give everything you got and dont complain and yes they might let you into more.

Top
#274199 - 06/04/07 06:00 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: shantungks]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Nice videos. NIce way to train like that. I miss the good old days. The only ones tougher in the training than the Dog Brothers are the guys from Sayoc. Really tough dudes. Hope I can get a chance to see or participate in of their gatherings.




in this post you make it clear that you have not reached the 'inner circle' of Sayoc (if such a thing exists), so if it is this 'hush-hush' live blade slice fest, then how exactly are you privy to this info? If you have yet to experience it in person, how can you offer it as fact?

I am afraid I am treating such claims with a pinch of salt, simply because live blade training would cause so many severe injuries that frequency of training would be impaired due to healing time, and irregular training with increasingly damaged tendons/reduced fine motor function would leave the 'advanced' completely unable to function in a fairly short time.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274200 - 06/07/07 02:53 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Ask Tom Sotis about live blade training. Some do it, & they are few and far between, but they are out there.

Top
#274201 - 06/07/07 06:41 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Some do it, & they are few and far between




I wonder why?

Probably the same reason that military training exercises involving combat simulation are never live fire- ITS A SIMULATION. No good killing your troops before they even see a real enemy.

i have a metal training knife, it is blunt and safe. This allows me to train injury free, and you know if metal touches skin that your technique has failed, or that you would be injured in real circumstances. That is enough.
Training live blade does nothing to enhance the experience, as what you need to recreate accurately in training is the resistance and intent in the attack you are dealing with. The injury is symptomatic, and secondary to the attack itself. I can be attacked much more ferociously by a partner holding a knife that he knows cannot harm me than by a partner who is always mindfull that if he or I f*ck up I am likely to collapse in an arterial spray. live blades can only be used with true full resistance by someone who actually wants to harm you with it. Training partners dont (usually) come into this category, thus rendering live blade training an ego trip or demonstration gimmick.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274202 - 06/07/07 06:44 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
good point.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

Top
#274203 - 06/07/07 10:15 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Quote:

i have a metal training knife, it is blunt and safe. This allows me to train injury free, and you know if metal touches skin that your technique has failed, or that you would be injured in real circumstances. That is enough.




I was amazed at how, even though I knew it was fake, my body/mind reacted differently to a metal practice knife than a wooden one. Not only do you feel the cold metal when it touches you, just seeing it makes your body have more of a realistic physiological reaction.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

Top
#274204 - 06/07/07 10:44 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Quote:

Some do it, & they are few and far between




I wonder why?




Agreed with Cord. Live blade training is ridiculously dangerous.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#274205 - 06/08/07 05:08 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Saisho]
KJ63 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Midwestern U.S.
I do agree. Live blade is almost pointless. There are plenty of training methods that create the same fear or stess response.

We use a shock knife: http://www.shocknife.com/

Getting shocked isn't fun (although the level of shock can be adjusted), but its a HELL of a lot better than losing the use of an arm or even death.
_________________________
You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war.

Top
#274206 - 06/08/07 05:16 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: KJ63]
Saisho Offline
more than just a pretty face

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 620
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Quote:

We use a shock knife




That is the coolest thing I have ever seen

However, for $500 I will stick to my aluminum blades from Keenedge Knives. They have a tactical folder that is perfect for defense against the typical folding blade.
_________________________
Tony Partlow Shogen-Ryu Karate-Do Minamoto Shibu Dojo http://martialartsfriends.com/Shogen

Top
#274207 - 06/09/07 02:07 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Quote:



I wonder why?

Probably the same reason that military training exercises involving combat simulation are never live fire- ITS A SIMULATION. No good killing your troops before they even see a real enemy.



You don't know much about military training if you are saying this
Maybe the basic grunts don't go live fire off of the range, but elite troopers (SEALs, Delta, SAS, etc) do live fire, often with team members playing the part of hostages in kill houses while their team mates breach and come in shooting, killing everything else.

Quote:


i have a metal training knife, it is blunt and safe. This allows me to train injury free, and you know if metal touches skin that your technique has failed, or that you would be injured in real circumstances. That is enough.



Maybe for you. Some folks train beyond that level and introduce an actual threat of live blades to the game. According to them, it opens up a whole new world of sensitivity development and realism when training in very controlled situations with folks that you trust. It might not be for everyone, though...
Quote:


Training live blade does nothing to enhance the experience, as what you need to recreate accurately in training is the resistance and intent in the attack you are dealing with. The injury is symptomatic, and secondary to the attack itself. I can be attacked much more ferociously by a partner holding a knife that he knows cannot harm me than by a partner who is always mindfull that if he or I f*ck up I am likely to collapse in an arterial spray. live blades can only be used with true full resistance by someone who actually wants to harm you with it. Training partners dont (usually) come into this category, thus rendering live blade training an ego trip or demonstration gimmick.




Some would disagree. But, that's okay, it's not for everyone, obviously.

Top
#274208 - 06/09/07 02:43 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Quote:

You don't know much about military training if you are saying this
Maybe the basic grunts don't go live fire off of the range, but elite troopers (SEALs, Delta, SAS, etc) do live fire, often with team members playing the part of hostages in kill houses while their team mates breach and come in shooting, killing everything else.




....how would you know that

Quote:

Maybe for you. Some folks train beyond that level and introduce an actual threat of live blades to the game. According to them, it opens up a whole new world of sensitivity development and realism when training in very controlled situations with folks that you trust. It might not be for everyone, though...



you didnt read cords post!!!!!

and lets say it does.
It "opens up a new world of training" for 3 hours til someone slips and gets a knife in the jugular
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

Top
#274209 - 06/09/07 02:48 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
You know, I took a look at that Shockknife and I must say, that thing really bridges the gap between trainers and live blades very well.

I'm gonna look into those, definitely.

Top
#274210 - 06/09/07 03:01 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: crablord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Quote:

Quote:

You don't know much about military training if you are saying this
Maybe the basic grunts don't go live fire off of the range, but elite troopers (SEALs, Delta, SAS, etc) do live fire, often with team members playing the part of hostages in kill houses while their team mates breach and come in shooting, killing everything else.




....how would you know that

Quote:

Maybe for you. Some folks train beyond that level and introduce an actual threat of live blades to the game. According to them, it opens up a whole new world of sensitivity development and realism when training in very controlled situations with folks that you trust. It might not be for everyone, though...



you didnt read cords post!!!!!

and lets say it does.
It "opens up a new world of training" for 3 hours til someone slips and gets a knife in the jugular




How would I know?
First off, I was in the military & witnessed such training. I never participated, however.
& also, I believe that anyone can look up such vids on YouTube...

& I did read his post & *suprise* I agree with his opinion for the most part. But after awhile, the effect of "intent" can wear off. Some folks that are very skilled up the ante with live blades. You don't have to. It's okay. It doesn't make you a wuss or something.

Top
#274211 - 06/09/07 10:35 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

First off, I was in the military & witnessed such training. I never participated, however.




Always the bridesmaid never the bride eh?

Anecdotal on sayoc, anecdotal on SAS. Forgive me if that pinch of salt is still being taken by yours truly.

special forces training is not a spectator sport, having had family involved with such concerns, and a good friend currently serving with the SBS, i stand by my opinion- based only on my own anecdotal evidence of course
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274212 - 06/09/07 03:11 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Quote:

Quote:

First off, I was in the military & witnessed such training. I never participated, however.




Always the bridesmaid never the bride eh?

Anecdotal on sayoc, anecdotal on SAS. Forgive me if that pinch of salt is still being taken by yours truly.

special forces training is not a spectator sport, having had family involved with such concerns, and a good friend currently serving with the SBS, i stand by my opinion- based only on my own anecdotal evidence of course




That's great. Your mileage may vary, of course

To be perfectly honest, the closest I came was all of the SEALs that I knew in SD, and my time rubbing elbows with III MEF SOTG and my time with 1st LAR / FORCE.
You should try getting out there and playing sometime instead of just hearing it from friends and family. Then maybe your word might carry more weight.

Top
#274213 - 06/10/07 10:51 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

That's great. Your mileage may vary, of course

To be perfectly honest, the closest I came was all of the SEALs that I knew in SD, and my time rubbing elbows with III MEF SOTG and my time with 1st LAR / FORCE.
You should try getting out there and playing sometime instead of just hearing it from friends and family. Then maybe your word might carry more weight.




So, like me, your experience of special forces is through social association, not experience. That puts us on an even playing field.

As for the 'weight' of my word, it is what it is, but around here it seems good enough for most.

Have a nice day
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274214 - 06/11/07 01:02 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Actually, NO. Sorry if there was some confusion, but usually, I try not to sound like some bragging a-hole

My experience comes from my being through kill-houses & having been the sole medical coverage on kill-houses. I've even set the TNT for simulated dynamic breach entries. I've witnessed some of the harriest shi-stuff one can imagine.

You have stories from your friends.


Even playing field? You gotta be jokin'.


Top
#274215 - 06/11/07 01:11 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Sorry for the thread drift...

Top
#274216 - 06/11/07 06:10 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Even playing field? You gotta be jokin'.





Well, that is the downside of the net is it not? you can claim anything you wish, as can I, and it is then down to the reader to make a decision as to the validity of that claim.
Thats an even playingfield.

And how exactly does any of your post validate your statement as fact regarding live blade training that you have not done?

Thanks for your service to the free world and all that, but I remain sceptical regarding both the specific claims, and the validity of the concepts behind live blade training.

(why do some people insist on putting these things after a passive-aggressive post? Thought i would try it myself see if it makes me feel any better. Time will tell)
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274217 - 06/11/07 06:47 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Quote:

Quote:

Even playing field? You gotta be jokin'.





Well, that is the downside of the net is it not? you can claim anything you wish, as can I, and it is then down to the reader to make a decision as to the validity of that claim.
Thats an even playingfield.

And how exactly does any of your post validate your statement as fact regarding live blade training that you have not done?




It doesn't. I posted more facts about my military history, that you brought into question in your oh-so-subtle internet-savvy manner, to qualify my experience with life-fire training, which you somehow believe doesn't exist.

Quote:



Thanks for your service to the free world and all that, but I remain sceptical regarding both the specific claims, and the validity of the concepts behind live blade training.

(why do some people insist on putting these things after a passive-aggressive post? Thought i would try it myself see if it makes me feel any better. Time will tell)




That's okay. For me, skepticism has more often than not stood in the way of progress. At least you won't be in my way...

Well, you used , & I used
What's the difference? & have none of your posts been "passive aggressive"?
(I get the context, but you should really look up "passive aggressive" before you use it any more. Mostly because my use of was pure sarcasm. Kind of like the following...)
Quote:

"Thanks for your service to the free world and all that, but I remain sceptical blahblahblah wahwahwah..."




If you will look at my original post on this subject, I mentioned Tom Sotis as a FMA-ist that had practiced live blade training at some point. I've been told of others from my Decuerdas instructor. I personally know others that do it in Silat, & I will probably do it at some time in the near future. At this moment, I use ground-down folders and other metal trainers, & I'm trying to get some folks to go in with me on two of those Shock Knives.

& as for qualifying every gall-darn thing that I say on the I'net... well, I'm sorry, but I can't be bothered with folks that won't believe what I say w/o a YouTube video or me knocking on their door with a box full of service records, rank certs, and whatever the hell else they need.
If you like, you can just file this as anecdotal, that way nobody's feelings get hurt. I don't care.

Point being, some folks take it to the limit. Folks do train with live blades. People take it to the limit, like the Dog Bros, but just with sticks. But hey, they have Paramedics at all of their meets to take away the injured. Why? Because they go all out. I've heard plenty of people that talk smack about them, how combat isn't sparring with sticks, and that if those were blades they couldn't trade blows like that. Well, you know what, they're right. But, how often do you have a sword on you? Compare that to how many times you can pick up a stick of some sort, or a hasty replacement? Tells me that the Dog Bros are training for practical reality, at least as weapons choice goes.

edited to fix quote


Edited by MattJ (06/11/07 10:31 AM)

Top
#274218 - 06/11/07 06:14 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


If you will look at my original post on this subject, I mentioned Tom Sotis as a FMA-ist that had practiced live blade training at some point.




Not you.

Quote:

I've been told of others from my Decuerdas instructor. I personally know others that do it in Silat, & I will probably do it at some time in the near future. as for qualifying every gall-darn thing that I say on the I'net... well, I'm sorry, but I can't be bothered with folks that won't believe what I say w/o a YouTube video or me knocking on their door with a box full of service records, rank certs, and whatever the hell else they need.




OK

Quote:

If you like, you can just file this as anecdotal




i couldnt possibly file it as anything else. In fact, my taking it as anecdotal is exactly what irked you in the first place.

Quote:

I don't care.




Clearly you do.

Quote:

Point being, some folks take it to the limit. Folks do train with live blades.




People are individuals and prone to doing strange things. Your intial post inferred that live blade training was part of the advanced syllabus in sayoc, and uniform across the art. I dispute this.

Quote:

People take it to the limit, like the Dog Bros, but just with sticks. But hey, they have Paramedics at all of their meets to take away the injured. Why? Because they go all out. I've heard plenty of people that talk smack about them, how combat isn't sparring with sticks, and that if those were blades they couldn't trade blows like that. Well, you know what, they're right . But, how often do you have a sword on you? Compare that to how many times you can pick up a stick of some sort, or a hasty replacement? Tells me that the Dog Bros are training for practical reality, at least as weapons choice goes.




Look at what you have written above closely. Now look at what I wrote, and that you disagreed with:

Quote:

what you need to recreate accurately in training is the resistance and intent in the attack you are dealing with. The injury is symptomatic, and secondary to the attack itself. I can be attacked much more ferociously by a partner holding a knife that he knows cannot harm me than by a partner who is always mindfull that if he or I f*ck up I am likely to collapse in an arterial spray. live blades can only be used with true full resistance by someone who actually wants to harm you with it. Training partners dont (usually) come into this category, thus rendering live blade training an ego trip or demonstration gimmick.




No willingness to back up your claims, a condescending manner, and a tendency to contradict yourself from post to post. You didnt used to be 'Stealthdozer' by any chance did you?





_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274219 - 06/11/07 09:38 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
Jim_Judy Offline
wants to be loved

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
Quote:

Not you.



Nope, not yet. However, my silat teacher said that we can do it when the time comes. I'll make sure an post a YouTube video for you to laugh at.
In the meantime, we're looking into the Shock Knives...

Quote:

i couldnt possibly file it as anything else. In fact, my taking it as anecdotal is exactly what irked you in the first place.



Actually, no. But that's okay, you see it how you like. I'm sure you always will.

Quote:

People are individuals and prone to doing strange things. Your intial post inferred that live blade training was part of the advanced syllabus in sayoc, and uniform across the art. I dispute this.



No, big guy, I never said anything of the sort. The closest I've ever come to Sayoc was dabbling in Atienza Kali.
You can dispute some figment of a post all you want, it won't affect me in the slightest. In fact, it makes me care even less

Quote:

Look at what you have written above closely. Now look at what I wrote, and that you disagreed with:




I'm not disagreeing with that method of training, I practice it now. But to think that folks training with live blades are simply satisfying some ego-driven need to show off is not correct. It goes against everything that I have ever read or been told by folks that actually train or have trained with live blades. For me, your Internet voice of how live blade training is at best an ego trip and at worst certain death flies in the face of what my 60yo Silat teacher has to say about it. So, with that in mind, considering the fact that you don't train live blade & therefore have no idea of the benefits, who are you to talk about it? You're no one. You have no point of reference, beyond condemnation of something you've never done.

So, that being said, good luck in your training. I'm out. Feel free to get in the last word. Only if you feel the need, of course. You will, won't you...





Top
#274220 - 06/12/07 03:19 AM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Jim_Judy]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

[No, big guy, I never said anything of the sort. The closest I've ever come to Sayoc was dabbling in Atienza Kali.
You can dispute some figment of a post all you want, it won't affect me in the slightest. In fact, it makes me care even less




At this point i must apologise, it was not you, in retrospect that made the inference earlier in the thread, in the enjoyment of the debate, i got my wires crossed.

Quote:

But to think that folks training with live blades are simply satisfying some ego-driven need to show off is not correct. It goes against everything that I have ever read or been told by folks that actually train or have trained with live blades. For me, your Internet voice of how live blade training is at best an ego trip and at worst certain death flies in the face of what my 60yo Silat teacher has to say about it. So, with that in mind, considering the fact that you don't train live blade & therefore have no idea of the benefits, who are you to talk about it? You're no one. You have no point of reference, beyond condemnation of something you've never done.




I am never going to agree with the concept of live blade work, that is not a sign of my ignorance of it, merely that, for reasons I have stated, I do not see any value to be gained from the increased risk it involves. One of the reasons the MA are 'arts' is that they are open to personal interperetation, and two peoples take on the same art can be wildly different. We disagree on this particular issue, and that is fine by me- do be carefull should you go ahead with live blade work though, yesterday in the UK a police officer was killed by a knife wound to the shoulder. Doesnt have to be a traditionaly thought of 'vital point' to cause life changing damage.

A specific apology, and an 'agree to differ'. I hope you see this as reasonable 'last word'.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#274221 - 06/12/07 12:10 PM Re: Silat Stick fighting clip [Re: Cord]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
Wow, Interesting argument here. Very interesting. Well all I can say is that if you are a blade practitioner and at one point you want to be considered a blade instructor and true blade or knife practitioner than yes at one point you have to train with a live blade. You cant say you are full-contact instructor if you have never even been close to that type of fighting. Live blade training instills a lot of respect for the blade and opens your eyes to the reality of this part of the martial arts and to teach that is not a playing tool even if at the beggining is only out of wood or plastic or steel.

Aslo in the use of the stick, yes is nice to use padding once in a while but also once in a while without padding. Padding reduces the ability to apply many techniques that do work.

But I guess everyone is free to train anyway they want but I think is not fair to call martial art a style that is not train that way. Martial art means art of war not of dancing or choreographic moves that look like dancing or make believe striking. But everyone is free to choose.

Yes Sayoc advance training is very hardcore and that is why they are known for being hard core. Sayoc is not for everyone. I believe they like that.

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga