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#273866 - 08/31/06 08:56 AM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: Craze]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
really? I was always told to use the full extent of my reach. Surely if you have to stop your shots when they're nearly at full extension, then you're going to lose speed and power because of the contraction of the biceps and the other antagonistic muscles.
Do you do JKD, and if so is this something your instructor has taught you, or has it evolved as a result of your own training? Has anyone else heard of this?
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#273867 - 08/31/06 06:34 PM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Craze Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 8
I do study jkd and it is something which my instructor taught me and it makes complete sense. you wouldnt want to throw your arm out in a fight. In the beginning it will take a conscious effort to not go 100%, but after doing it for a while it will be come part of your muscle memory and not something you even have to think about doing or not doing.

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#273868 - 09/05/06 07:20 AM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: Craze]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
yes, but if you contract your biceps muscle at all during your punch, it WILL entail a loss of speed and power, not to mention reach and possibly even concentration (this part is NOT merely an opinion, it's scientific fact). I have always been taught to completely relax all the muscles that are counterproductive to your punch. This is also evident in the wing chun system, siu lim tao and chum kiu. In fact, it is widely known throughout the the martial arts world.

I CAN see your point though, and it is an interesting one. Maybe it IS better to aim to preserve you joints and ligaments. It may also increase your chances of longevity in you MA training.

I guess this is another one of those find your own truth debates where there is no correct answer, just opinions. For me though, i feel it is my responsibility as a MAist, to be able to hit with ALL my speed, power, reach etc, regardless of the fact that i may miss and injure myself. If you hit slower and with less power, you are more likely to get hit back. In fact, i would go as far as to say that you will never be the very best you can be.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#273869 - 09/05/06 01:05 PM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: jkdwarrior]
QuietGal Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 177
Loc: Missouri
Injuries? You mean I might get *hurt* doing this stuff???
Sorry...my sarcasm gets out of hand at times...its the meds, I swear.

I would look at the point of the training and/or drill that you are doing at that moment. If you are wanting to focus on shape and form, then obviously don't go all out and throw yourself into a punch or kick. Slow down and make sure that what you are doing is correct. But if you are going for power, then have fun and go all out, but at the same time don't sacrifice shape and form. Being sloppy is no excuse for working on power/strength. You may be stronger tham me, but if my form and technique (and the fact that I am a dirty fighter) are right on, I most likely will be the one coming out on top.

Expect to be injured and sore from training. I've dislocated my knee a couple of times and my jaw, broken fingers and my nose. Black eyes, split lips, bloody noses, bruises everywhere, microfracture in the legs, etc. However, none of the injuries have been life threatening, they just tend to look really bad. While they hurt, and some have forced me into resting a bit more, I've always come back for more. I'm sick that way...
_________________________
QuietGal "I'm torn between the desire to create and the desire to destroy." - Lucy Van Pelt

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#273870 - 09/27/06 12:05 AM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Craze Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 8
One of the things we live by is, maximum power, maximum speed, maximum control. To throw a punch so hard and fast that you cant stop it at 95% means that you dont have the utmost control. It would also mean that you are very much over committed to the punch you are throwing, such that even if you knew half way through the punch it wasnt going to be effective you couldnt do anything about it. Let alone counter a counter offensive move by the person which they started because of the original punch. (when i use the term you, im not directing this at anyone in particular)

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#273871 - 09/27/06 12:09 AM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Craze Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 8
another thing... its not that your contracting your bicep during the punch.... your doing it at the end of the punch. Might seem like a small difference but in actuality its a big one. You are also using this to create the whiping motion of the punch which gives the punch more power kinda like the examle of getting hit with a ball and chain or just a straight bat.... the ball and chain can create more energy..

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#273872 - 09/27/06 12:45 PM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: Craze]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Well you are entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is, your view. I think your're wrong to not use your full reach. You can use it without overcommitting, which simply means that you move your centre of gravity too far, not that you're extending your arm out too far. The whipping motion of the punch actually comes from the direction of your body turning round and moving towards either foot, NOT the pulling of it.
I think i know what you're trying to say though, some people don't punch directly down the centre line which can lead to the jarring of the joints although it gives them a little bit more reach. This is just because they haven't learned to punch with the power of the entire body yet and they hit out from their side.
What i'm talking about is using the full reach directly down the centre line, which may not have the same reach as the above mentioned incorrect technique, and which you may think i'm talking about, but it is still 100% of your reach.

Anyway, these kind of debates become tedious very quickly and cannot be resolved on a forum. I need to actually see what you're talking about and vice versa. So what do you say we leave it where it is. You have your views, i have mine.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#273873 - 09/28/06 11:49 AM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Craze Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 8
my intention is not to start an argument. Anyone who says anything is stating their own opinion(unless it has been scientifically proven). I just took the oppurtuninty to explain mine and to address some points which were brought up to counter them...

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#273874 - 09/28/06 11:08 PM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: Craze]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Craze-


Welcome to the forums. Feel free to post your views and opinions. Thats what we all do here.

Arguments can be a good thing. Don't try and avoid them. If our only goal is to get at the truth, we should probably EMBRACE arguments.

Feel free and start some. You have my permission (so long as everyone plays fair).



-John

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#273875 - 09/28/06 11:39 PM Re: What training injuries can I expect in JKD? [Re: JKogas]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
By all means start an arguement. its the only way to learn in this place. Most people here are civil enough to have a respectable debate without any hard feelings.

As to the original topic. Expect injuries. Bruises, torn muscles or ligaments, cuts and scrapes. Occasionally, it gets rougher than that but never intentionally. Its combat training, which means there is always risk for injury.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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