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#272503 - 07/18/06 12:34 PM control (the new guy)
ChangLab Offline

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
We have a guy that just started in our class and he has no control.
The guy is eager to learn and doesn't hit so hard out of spite I think he doesn't know any better.
We have been doing alot of work on "flowing"(offense to defense,recognizing openings.... that sort of thing)
Last night we were doing an excersize where we were "touching an opening" not fast, no power that kind of thing.Here comes the new guy and blasts me in the kidney
I'm not complaining, our rule is "hit only as hard as you want to get hit" fair enough.
Some of the blackbelts have tried to slow him down to try to get him to work on the excersize that we are working on .
I am not so good at slowing him down.I have a tendency to react at the same or greater speed that he uses.not nessessarily the same power(I use control and restraint)
as this guy is new I'm not threatened by him but I dont want it to be a full contact freespar everytime we are matched up for an excersize.

Should I just thump him? or let him dictate the level of force used?
I don't want to hurt the guy I also don't want him to hurt me.

how do some of you get the new guy to "understand"?

#272504 - 07/18/06 12:51 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: ChangLab]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Your rule is a good one ("hit only as hard..."). If the senior students have explained it to him, apply the rule. Sometimes a new guy will go extra hard because he believes that's what's expected or he wants to display his "commitment". Add that to poor coordination & you have a recipe for disaster (in the event he hurts a lower-grade student). It could result in less aggressive students quitting - not good if your instructor is trying to make a living.

Final word: Talk to your seniors/instructor & apply the rule (every time & w/ a smile).


#272505 - 07/18/06 01:13 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: hedkikr]
ChangLab Offline

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
I guess part of my hesitation is I dont want to re-enfroce that behavior.

#272506 - 07/18/06 01:27 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: ChangLab]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3119
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello ChangLab:

Have a talk, with words, whole sentences with the person. Explain your concern. Have the same conversation with the head instructor. If he still keeps coming, then you get to turn things up...

But when everybody involved understands, speaks (with whole sentences about it, discusses it ) and ACCEPTS what is happening everyone is fully informed and aware, no surprises... no foul.

Too many come full-tilt believing that is the only correct response. If training partners understand and AGREE to that, fine... feel free. But if one if excessive and the other person isn't nearly that intensity level (ie deliberately turned down) the conversation needs to be had...

Self-aware, fully informed you get to explore what happens when someone comes "hard". Still lacking the intent to hurt you, found elsewhere (sic. which so many lust after) but not a bad simulation of it. "...Is it ok, if I go harder with you, you seem to be a little intense to me..."

Good luck...

#272507 - 07/18/06 05:17 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: ChangLab]
tkd_high_green Offline

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
When you get paired up with him, remind him right off the bat that he needs to work on control, not power. If he still continues to hit hard, he either doesn't realize how hard he's hitting or he's doing it on purpose. In either case you then need to talk to your instructor about it. If that doesn't help, you need to avoid working with that person, or if your instructor refuses to do anything about it, find a different school. If you can't train in relative safety, then get out!

I had a similar situation last year with someone higher ranked than I was at the time. We were paired up working on one-steps. The student I was working with at the time was someone I don't particularly like or trust, which made things difficult. When it was his turn, he came in and performed a choke hold on me, which I wasn't too particularly happy about, but could have lived with if it had stayed there, but it didn't. Even though I had tensed up because I wasn't comfortable, he continued on with his counter attack and dragged me to the floor, which frankly wigged me out. The next time it was his turn to go, I could tell he was going to do a leg sweep, and I literally couldn't keep myself from bolting away from him.

While I didn't get hurt physically, it has affected my ability to work on more advanced onesteps, because of that fear.


#272508 - 07/18/06 06:01 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: ChangLab]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
If you follow the rule, it's not "reinforcing the behavior". Reinforcing means he gets a reward for his behavior. Last time I looked, a well-placed punch/kick to the ribs isn't much of a reward.

However, don't let his bad training practices cause you to leave the school you enjoy. He's the one who must adjust or leave.


#272509 - 07/19/06 01:35 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: hedkikr]
ChangLab Offline

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 312
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
He's the new guy not me, I'm not going anywhere.
I'd rather not hurt him.But I'm not afraid to let him Know that he will lose anytime he wants to step outside the defined peramaters of a specific drill.

#272510 - 07/19/06 04:25 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: ChangLab]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
There's hurting him and HURTING him.

A little eye watering tap on the nose or an open slap across the face sometimes does the job.

My mate told me about the time a former world champion was teaching a coloured belt class as a guest instructor. During free-sparring everyone was going in hard, even tho' he told them to lay off. When one guy didn't he found an axe-kick to the eye. A little excessive perhaps but nobody else wanted a go.
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

#272511 - 07/20/06 08:27 AM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: ChangLab]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
There is nothing wrong with letting uncontrolled student understand their position in the dojo, it is acceptable now and has been since the birth of the dojo. The touchy part is how you "tactfully remind them" so they stay the course.

Edited by schanne (07/20/06 08:28 AM)
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

#272512 - 07/21/06 05:52 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: ChangLab]
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.


Should I just thump him? or let him dictate the level of force used?
I don't want to hurt the guy I also don't want him to hurt me.

Give him a notch in the crown jules,1m1but only hit him as hard as he hits you.


how do some of you get the new guy to "understand"?

Seriously,I would',t worry tomuch about it,& sure it takes time for some ppl to learn proper technique, than it doe's for others.
Also,B/c he's knew to the martial arts just might be one of the reasons his techniques are out of control.

To me,It has been very common that a new student will either punch & kick uncontrolably,or passively,in other words,the uncontrolld/passive punch is realy a lack of power,Just as it's a lack of proper technique;as on e cannot do without the other.

I'm assuming from what I'd read from you post,That the BB's told him be calm & slowdown to make his punches/kicks more exact,However It will take some patience for the instructor,But it all should workout soon enough.

#272513 - 08/31/06 07:44 PM Re: control (the new guy) [Re: Isshinryukid4life]
Bloody_Barbs Offline

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 15
Sit down, talk to him and make it quite clear that is annoying you. Tell him if he keeps acting so stupidly you will have to put him on his butt. Gl!

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