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#271389 - 08/06/06 05:18 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: ITFunity]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
I forgot to add that the book & author ask for critiques & provides an avenue to do so. That is what most impressed me. I believe the author will use that info to update the book & expand it. Very noble.

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#271390 - 08/09/06 12:16 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: ITFunity]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Thanks for the kind comments ITFunity & Matxtx.


Matxtx the turning kick picture I think you are refering to is to illustrate the difference in technique between shotokan & TKD. The actual application of a turning kick is varied and I too have been taught similar, though I must say in SD is works well if you are quick (to move and kick) but in reality how often do you have the scope to do that in fighting/sparring. To me, the way things are performed in sparring are often slightly different to fighting (hence why I broach them as different subjects that compliment/correspond with each other in the book).


May schools also have minor differences, I come from a Ch'ang Hon system and even though I know of many of the chnages (see sine wave article) I dont forcefully terach them (but do teach of them - ie. i inform my studnets) as I personally believe they actively go against what is needed for effective TKD and its role in SD.

Thanks again guys,

Stuart

ps. Feel free to add your reviews to amazon
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#271391 - 08/13/06 02:26 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: StuartA]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Yea lots of differences.lol.
I totaly agree on the sign wave....id not been taught the over exagerated way or even heard of it untill i came on here!

Whats your veiw on the slow motion techniques that appear,you dont mention them in the book yet there is some in Joong Gun and Toi-Gye.Just demonstating the theory of power with out speed and exercises?

The thing that has always got me about applications is how much change to do to make things like blocks change to locks and breaks.
The chambering seems to be important and iv seen people chamber different ways.Some take ages and do unessasary things with their arms like moving them back far or doing too much with them or even virtualy stop completly in a chamber.YET this might be good when you use them as locks yet not if you use them as blocks.lol....it confussles me.
If i do a block to use as a block or a cover i need to do it different than if i use it for a lock or break so what do i train for?haha.

Im lucky iv been introduced to things by a third dan and my instuctor who have had seminars and lessons with Willie Lim who is meant to be S***t hot at applications and some others though i have to ask them to get ideas and i seem to be the only one in my class intersted in it too.Sad realy.I hope this book blows it all open and it makes others HAVE to take notice.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#271392 - 08/13/06 04:08 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: matxtx]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Slow motion techniques were originally there because they depicted an application that was deemed 'to dangerous' to practice at speed, for example the elbow break in Joong-Gun. However, whether they were just 'ported in' from what the General learnt or whether they had real substance due to the application is unknown.

Many schools have swapped and changed which moves are slow motion these days and some are more standard across the board than others. Ive seen some schools perform in slow motion techniques that Ive never been taught to do that way, again going back to Instructors/orgs/GM's chnaging them for reasons other than the original I first mentioned. Hence why I didnt reference it as a major point.


With regards to chambering, Ive always believed that as a block, that should be less & less and things 'click' into place, like hip twist, which I believe is covered in the book but as you say, full chambers are not wasted as they help with lock/break and follow through, therefore during solo practice they are not wasted and in reality its doubtful your reflexes would allow a full chamber to 'block' something, even if you did managed use a block as the name intends!

I remember some Willy lim stuff years back in the MA magazines (Im talking 10+ years) but never seen or heard anything else since.


With regards to others not being interested, thats ashame and could hamper you a bit - perhaps get a copy for your instructor to 'up' his interest .

Stuart

Ps. Re: differences - what org are you with?

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#271393 - 08/13/06 04:35 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: StuartA]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
From my understanding of slow motion, according to Gen Choi, it was 2 fold. 1st was to emphasize the coordination of the eyes, hands, feet & breat (into 1 single coordinated movement) (as per the training secret of Taekwon-Do). 2nd it was to remind that attacks come or may come in different speeds.

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#271394 - 08/13/06 04:57 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: StuartA]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Im with the TAGB.
Even within that though there are differences.lol.

I did mention the book to my instructor breifly before i had it and he said i should go as deep as i like by all means.I was asking and he showed me things though seemed to favour me coming up with my own saying nothing is definite.He said that instructors pass around ideas ,some he agrees with some he doesnt, so he did seem a bit sceptical to be honest.yet maybe if another instructor mentions the book he will take more notice lol.

We do everything you mention like sweeps,locks,takedowns,breaking,more heavy contact sparring if both agree etc heading towards realer TKD though no pattern sparring which i reckon i need to do to learn more and that i realy want to do.
Do you have justt he one school? Your a bit far away though id like to train in this stuff
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#271395 - 08/13/06 06:02 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: ITFunity]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

From my understanding of slow motion, according to Gen Choi, it was 2 fold. 1st was to emphasize the coordination of the eyes, hands, feet & breat (into 1 single coordinated movement) (as per the training secret of Taekwon-Do). 2nd it was to remind that attacks come or may come in different speeds.




Yup, heard both of them.

My only issue with them is that they apply to moves whether fast or slow do they not? Though I gotta say I feel though the 1st reason you mention may be relevant, then 2nd feels a little weak to me in all honesty.

Like I said, its a hazy area, but in my research slow moves in pre-TKD katas meant danger and emphaised control when practicing with a partner.

Stuart

ps. these would make great discussions on a certain site mentioned in the book?
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#271396 - 08/13/06 06:06 PM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: matxtx]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

Im with the TAGB.
Even within that though there are differences.lol.



No doubt

Quote:

I did mention the book to my instructor breifly before i had it and he said i should go as deep as i like by all means.I was asking and he showed me things though seemed to favour me coming up with my own saying nothing is definite.He said that instructors pass around ideas ,some he agrees with some he doesnt, so he did seem a bit sceptical to be honest.yet maybe if another instructor mentions the book he will take more notice lol.



Has he seen the book himself? The main idea of the book is to hopefully promote and propogate this side of training more. Many instructors bandy around ideas for moves, thats cool, but being able to perfrom applications from the start to end gives them much more depth.

Quote:

We do everything you mention like sweeps,locks,takedowns,breaking,more heavy contact sparring if both agree etc heading towards realer TKD though no pattern sparring which i reckon i need to do to learn more and that i realy want to do.



Maybe a few like minded individuals can impliment it between you all!


Quote:

Do you have justt he one school? Your a bit far away though id like to train in this stuff



Fraid so

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#271397 - 08/14/06 09:04 AM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: StuartA]
Doc Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 10
Hi StuartA and all
I look forward to purchasing a copy of the book.
Correct me if I am mistaken but I understood that General Choi never knew the true meaning of the movements in his patterns. They were mainly adapted from a watered down version of karate (the Japanese were never going to teach a Korean national their hidden applications) and rearranged in a manner that was pleasing to the General's eye.
I credit Master Willy Lim with opening my eyes a long time ago.
http://www.classicaldimension.com/

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#271398 - 08/14/06 10:02 AM Re: Chang Hon Real Applications Book [Re: Doc]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Wily Lim is still about he did a seminar earlier this year and last year though i didnt go unfortunitly.

The turning kick i kind of view as using a bit like the Muay Thai one because they take a step to the side
If youv iv got my steal toe caps on i use for work or college i can shape as though i was using the ball of the foot though id end up hitting with the toe which wouldnt matter it ,wouldnt hurt me.
From what iv been taught and from the book and other research originaly soldiers were in heavy boots thats what was taken into account.

Diffences are things like in Hwa-rang (iv not got the spelling in front of me if i wrong lol) the 3 punches in L-stance after the 2 turning kicks,knife hand gaurding block,low block section iv seen done where people do them facing right then left then right virtualy all the way facing .some a little...me,im taught to face the front like it was a short close punch.Though if someone does it the other way they wont see how it could be that so their application would have to be differen.Thats an example though theres a few variations of different things.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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