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#271036 - 07/13/06 02:10 PM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Ed

Good questions---very thought provoking, as usual.

1-No, would sit down with him and go over my concerns and work out a plan to help him meet his goals

2-Yes, the rules are there for EVERYONES saftey--not just his

3-Relgious reasons not to use the correct terms for techiniques?
I'd pretty much insist that the correct terms are being used--again for saftey sake.

-Rank--could care less
-Uniform--If everyone is wearing one so should they
-Bow--could care less.

4-Why would "transgender" be an issue? I would not consider it an issue at all

5-Might take the money---in order to do a "kata" correctly would take enough effort that they would have to learn FAR more than just the kata--they would have learned at least the basics of the system.

I see no reason not to teach them any kata another "white belt" would know.

My answer would be different if they wanted to learn a advanced kata--maybe.

6-Nope, if they and a realtive of mine are at odds--and my sister is NOT to blame then I can't see that I would teach them.

7-If the student is "ok" taking forever to improve then thats his/her choice.
Some folks just want to train as they please--and its not about ME.

8-If they are "better" than me--then why would they want to learn from me?

-If they just want to learn a "different" style--then sure, why not?
Happy for them to teach me what THEY know as well.

-If they are there just to keep in training--sure, why not?

9-Exercise--sure, martial arts training is pretty good for you--they training right, they will end up with more than they came in for--and that is not a bad thing.

10-Maybe not--such person would really stuggle--might be setting them up for failure in BOTH schools.

If they could gut it out AND keep what they do "there"--seperate from what we do "here"--maybe.

Guess I would advise him/her to pick a style and focus on it--but if they would not listen?
Then I guess I would let them try.

And in answer to your question--yes I have refused to teach people, mainly for general attitude reasons.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#271037 - 07/14/06 12:01 AM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Ed:



The criteria would be a pretty small list, but there would be some iron clad no-no's which would merit refusal.

Weight is not on the list.

Stupidity however is on the refusal list. Jewelry is not allowed and must be removed period. IF they won't remove it for a brief class period, they cannot study. It/they will get destroyed... avoid the avoidable injury ergo jewelry is not allowed.

Misperceptions & Beliefs. Provided they have a basic understanding of our reasons for using such actions (whatever they might be)... and do not interfear with them in any way the door is open.

Training is not about ones sexual interests or activities.
Therefore literally not relevant.

As CXT mentioned previously depends on the particular what & why somebody wanted to learn a given concept or practice. As to relatives, much persistance is absolutely necessary before I would ever consider it. Paid but uncommitted. Their needs are somehow met and we teach regardless... The conversation will occur at some point "...we are glad to have you but do you realize..." As to the ~exercise student~, again their needs are met. Provided they do not expect the curricilium to keep them ~entertained~, or altered to fit their mistaken perceptions, the door is open.

As to the double experience & skill student & the simultainous arts "studier"... the former I would be very, extremely cautious. Why do they wish to study with me? What do they seek to learn given their tangible skills, and experience? Possible yes... but ~shields are up~ and at maximum.

The latter what is their purpose, their goal studying multiple places? Much less at the same time... not a prayer they will stay at either long....

Jeff

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#271038 - 07/14/06 02:19 AM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
1. 350lbs. - No: Morbidly obese, risk of heart attack, stroke ot joint problems, too much liability, lose 150 lbs first.

2. Multiple face peircings - Yes: Must wear headgear of my choosing, it will get hot in there

3. Religious reasons - No: Find something closer to your beliefs, school won't change for 1 person

4. Transgender female - Yes: as long as 'her' behavior & appearance isn't disruptive (read 'flaming')

5. Will pay money for kata or skill - Depends: Tell them they will acquire that kata/skill in regulat class training, alternative is private lessons w/o grading

6. Your sibling's ex-spouse - No: too much baggage/history (& she may be too hot!)

7. Always pays on time, one class per month - Yes: It's their $$$

8. More skill than yourself - Yes: Forces me to be sharper, I could learn something too

9. Not interested in MA just exercise - Yes: must do everything the class does, won't promote if they don't fight

10. Student of another school - Yes: who hasn't cross-trained, would like to know if the other sensei is OK w/ it...if not, sorry, don't solicit students from my school though or you're out

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#271039 - 07/14/06 08:27 AM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
1. the person is average height, but well over 350lbs.

What's the problem?

2. the person has multiple face peircings and tells you they won't remove them but is willing to risk it.

Hard luck. If he wants to train, they come out.

3. the person mentions, for religious reasons, they will not engage in any 'ceremonial' or iconic things like wearing rank, bowing, or speaking a foreign language nor recite any codes.

My House, my rules!

4. the person is obviously a transgender female, (was male-is now a female, without operation).

Depends if the other transgender in the class (was female, now male, without operation) wants a date with him/her.

5. tells you they will pay x money to learn 1 particular kata or skill.


How much?

6. the person happens to be your sibling's ex-spouse who is cuurently going thru a nasty legal battle with each other.

As the legal battle only revolves around custody of the family hamster, I think I'll let it slide.

7. a student who always pays on time and in full, but consitantly only shows up to one class per month.

If it works for him and doesn't affect me, fine.

8. a person who has double the amount of MA experience as you and visibly more skill than yourself, but is humble about it.

No one that exceeds my own skill level by that much could possibly be humble about it. They'd be shouting from the rooftops.

9. someone who is not particularly interested in the Art, but more in the exercise aspect.

Many people train for many different reasons.

10. a student of another school, who you know will be taking the other art simultaneously.

What's the problem?
_________________________
John L

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#271040 - 07/14/06 10:35 AM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: JohnL]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Are you and Ross Perot brothers? LOL
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#271041 - 07/14/06 12:31 PM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
MartinVonCannon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 13
Quote:


1. the person is average height, but well over 350lbs.

2. the person has multiple face peircings and tells you they won't remove them but is willing to risk it.




None of these are worth turning someone away.

Quote:


3. the person mentions, for religious reasons, they will not engage in any 'ceremonial' or iconic things like wearing rank, bowing, or speaking a foreign language nor recite any codes.




These would be reason. They boil down to discipline and open-mindedness. The person is obviously not secure in themselves and not open minded.

Quote:


4. the person is obviously a transgender female, (was male-is now a female, without operation).




Not a problem.

Quote:


5. tells you they will pay x money to learn 1 particular kata or skill.




This would not be worth my time nor theirs. They obviously have skill, or want only to learn something specific. That or they just don't want to bother. So neither would I.

Quote:


6. the person happens to be your sibling's ex-spouse who is cuurently going thru a nasty legal battle with each other.




For conflicting points of view, I might. Depends on my relationship with them and my sibling.

Quote:


7. a student who always pays on time and in full, but consitantly only shows up to one class per month.




If the student is happy this way, by all means let them come.

Quote:


8. a person who has double the amount of MA experience as you and visibly more skill than yourself, but is humble about it.

9. someone who is not particularly interested in the Art, but more in the exercise aspect.

10. a student of another school, who you know will be taking the other art simultaneously.




Although these are challenges, these are not reasons enough to turn them away.
_________________________
- Martin E. Von Cannon

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#271042 - 07/15/06 08:17 AM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Curious list. Good for a few laughs.

I'd turn a student away if I suspected serious mental illness that would lead to inappropriate aggressive/violent behavior.

I'd take the 350 lb student with an MD note of approval and a contract that states the school is not responsible ... such as all other students sign.

I'd be watchful of the transgendered person as I would other very unusual people just because I'm not perfect. The objective would be to dismiss anyone who sexualizes the learning experience regardless looks tattoos, body piercing, or other physical attributes. If there is no problem, I wouldn't make one.

I would question the person from 2 schools. My upbringing is that you don't study from another schools unless you are seriously thinking about changeing schools, or already a black belt. If a person were in a color rank and studying some place else and not considering just changeing over, I'd want approval from the other school.

I would take a student who just wanted to learn one thing if in interview it sounded reasonable. I might be there myself in awhile. I really want to learn Sanchin, for example. It is not one of our school kata but it has great energy, technique and historical value.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#271043 - 07/16/06 03:11 PM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
haze Offline
Dragon

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Syracuse NY USA
1. the person is average height, but well over 350lbs.

Will need medical permission.

2. the person has multiple face peircings and tells you they won't remove them but is willing to risk it.

Take them out or get out.(nothing against piercings)

3. the person mentions, for religious reasons, they will not engage in any 'ceremonial' or iconic things like wearing rank, bowing, or speaking a foreign language nor recite any codes.

This is ok. To each their own.

4. the person is obviously a transgender female, (was male-is now a female, without operation).

Big lawsuit coming on this one

5. tells you they will pay x money to learn 1 particular kata or skill.

No, out

6. the person happens to be your sibling's ex-spouse who is cuurently going thru a nasty legal battle with each other.

No, stay out of the family disputes

7. a student who always pays on time and in full, but consitantly only shows up to one class per month.

Talk to them, see whats up.

8. a person who has double the amount of MA experience as you and visibly more skill than yourself, but is humble about it.

Opportunity for me to learn

9. someone who is not particularly interested in the Art, but more in the exercise aspect.

To each their own.

10. a student of another school, who you know will be taking the other art simultaneously.

Ok with me if they have permission from the other teacher too.
_________________________
David

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#271044 - 07/17/06 12:59 PM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: haze]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
1. the person is average height, but well over 350lbs.

Got one nearly like that now,not a problem.

2. the person has multiple face peircings and tells you they won't remove them but is willing to risk it.

Bye,bye bozo.

3. the person mentions, for religious reasons, they will not engage in any 'ceremonial' or iconic things like wearing rank, bowing, or speaking a foreign language nor recite any codes.

Please don't come to my school and tell me what you won't do. buh-bye.

4. the person is obviously a transgender female, (was male-is now a female, without operation).

Ok,if I can keep from laughing.

5. tells you they will pay x money to learn 1 particular kata or skill.

Private lessons?Sure,why not.

6. the person happens to be your sibling's ex-spouse who is cuurently going thru a nasty legal battle with each other.

Buh-bye

7. a student who always pays on time and in full, but consitantly only shows up to one class per month.

Nope,they'd have to relearn everything each month.

8. a person who has double the amount of MA experience as you and visibly more skill than yourself, but is humble about it.

Teach me!!

9. someone who is not particularly interested in the Art, but more in the exercise aspect.

Go do Tae bo!

10. a student of another school, who you know will be taking the other art simultaneously.

Sure!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#271045 - 07/17/06 05:10 PM Re: would you ever turn a student away? [Re: Ed_Morris]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
1. the person is average height, but well over 350lbs.

I'd do it, but it would be a challenge. Would worry about the rest of the students being slowed down.

2. the person has multiple face peircings and tells you they won't remove them but is willing to risk it.

Get over it man. I'd give him a speech about liability - especially regarding the safety of other students. Lose them or I lose you.

3. the person mentions, for religious reasons, they will not engage in any 'ceremonial' or iconic things like wearing rank, bowing, or speaking a foreign language nor recite any codes.

Don't think I'd push any of that, but I would def be put off by someone who refuses to speak words in another language. If you're that xenophobic, why would you want to learn an MA of foreign origin to begin with?

4. the person is obviously a transgender female, (was male-is now a female, without operation).

Sure. Every time I see Boys Don't Cry I sort of hope the ending changes and Hillary Swank takes on her Million Dollar Baby persona and kicks those guys butt$ before they do what they do. I have no problem teaching SD to anyone who could be the potential victim of a hate crime. However, they get no special treatment because of their "difference".

5. tells you they will pay x money to learn 1 particular kata or skill.

"For $200 I will teach you Monkey Steals the Peach."
Cha-ching.

6. the person happens to be your sibling's ex-spouse who is cuurently going thru a nasty legal battle with each other.

Can't really discriminate over that, as much as I would want to. Maybe some MA would chill them out.

7. a student who always pays on time and in full, but consitantly only shows up to one class per month.

I'd probably have a sit down and tell them that they're wasting their money and my time.

8. a person who has double the amount of MA experience as you and visibly more skill than yourself, but is humble about it.

I'd make them a partner!

9. someone who is not particularly interested in the Art, but more in the exercise aspect.

Hope you like sparring, because we don't have any workoutamajig machinery here.

10. a student of another school, who you know will be taking the other art simultaneously.

It would be pretty hypocritical of me if I didn't.

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