Why not both? If I had to choose one, it would be the bag. You can practice not only strikes but also blocks and kicks on it.

What the F**K kind of lifestyle do you people have!!!

This is not the 1600's when all you had to do with your hands was farm and crush skulls!!

In almost 25 years of Martial arts training ( traditional martial arts training ), I have never had the need to kill a bull with my hands or punch through a tree or concrete wall, or strike through an opponents chest and pluck out his heart!

I have used my art(s) countless times all over the world in defense of myself and others. I also have the need to make sure that my soft, well manicured hands serve me until retirement age.

You do not need calloused, knotted ,gnarled, arthritic hands to prove that you are a good fighter.

Get a clue.

Page

PS in response to the question: Some light Makiwara is important, but there are other ways to develop kime. The heavy bag is very important, for all the reasons that you all already know.

cmon guys, enough flaming here.

from talking with a few sensei they tell me that light mak training is fine for developing proper body dynamics and posture, and the conditioning that a the light trining will provide should be more then enough for the modern day karateka.

they say the heavy bag is usefull for kicking techniques a little more then hand techniques because the give thats in the bag is in a way detrimental to someone who's still learning the in's and out's of kime.

but pound for pound I hear that theres not alot of difference

excellent

Hi

Interesting

My hands are conditioned so are my feet,
But against a tree?

Tree wins.

So what kind of trees dont you care for that you have to
train with?

Which shaolin monks?

tradidtional shotokan karate, i know some of you guys think thats an oxymoron, lol.

Huh???

I trained in trad shotokan,untill the association i belonged to got to sports oreintated.What is a oxymoron,, lol??

http://www.shuriway.co.uk/enoeda.html

This guy trained in shotokan, I think how shotokan should be but that is only my opinion.

Yep i would agree

ANDY,
I find that Cypress or Pine trees work best. The reason being that the skin of a cypress tree and the bark of a pine tree tend to have some give. Palm trees also work great.
The shaolin monks ( SOUTHERN TEMPLE) use pine trees as well. The original temple was called "shaolin" because of it's location- in a PINE forest. Shorin ryu - means Shaolin way. Shaolin way can mean forest way. Here are some other great examples.
Shobayashi Shorin Ryu - small forst way
Kobayashi Shorin Ryu- young forest way
Matsubayashi shorin ryu - PINE FOREST WAY ( founded by shoshin nagamine in 1940 ) .. I don't consider 1940's to be an era of the "the karate masters of old" but they did in fact practice on trees.
I have never broken any bones in any of my practice on trees. A few of the higher ranks in the style I practice can gain absolutely nothing from a heavy bag now. The reason being that everytime they hit one, it breaks!
You claim your hands and feet are "conditioned". What exactly are they "conditioned" to do?