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#268788 - 08/16/06 11:54 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I suppose the difference would come down to intent, and training.

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#268789 - 08/16/06 12:13 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Harlan,

The use of non-conventional items as weapons is a more unusual study than many suggest.

For example the Bando stick studies we undertake can be used with anything that you can put into your hands, including your empty hands.

So Pens, books, rulers, newspapers, cans, chains, rope and many other items can be wielded to impact for effect on an opponent. They are not used one way but a variety of ways, but the the stick is used a variety of different ways too.

The pen as a defensive weapon actually has a long tradition in various countries. Japanese yawara sticks are about the same length of pens, and the Okinawn use of fishing net floats fill the same role. They can only strike into weak areas, or peel skin off of an opponent depending on usage.

Rings, especially as advanced practioners in Bando, Pai Lum and other arts, if they have raised surfaces also work as unconventional weapons.

Of course belts, chains and bracelets can be used, or coats carried over your shoulder or arm.

In fact a piece of kleenex can be used in a variety of ways. None of which I am willing to share openly,< GRIN >.

Tashadi Yamashida, who backs away from nobody, has a really great one in an old Panther video. He takes a white gym sock and drops his keys into it, the bigger the ball of keys the better. And then uses the sock as a nunchaku.

Of course a key ring, with the keys splayed through ones fingers in a fist become a rather viscous set of non-brass knuckles.

The state of Massachusetts classes the 'shod foot' as a weapon that can be a criminal charged if used. So if you kick somebody with your shoes on you're breaking the law, and I've seen people charged with this (and they were non martial artists who would likely get charged harder).

Of course if you are trained how to use such implements, and other scoff and procliam only a fool would attempt to do so, GREAT. YOU DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#268790 - 08/16/06 12:15 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Victor Smith]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
'Unconventional weapons'...my new hobby.

Quote:

Harlan...

GREAT. YOU DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!



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#268791 - 08/16/06 12:22 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Alas, I forgot the simplest "ROCKS", they rock!

Of course Sticks and Stones can break your bones, and little pebbles can fell a giant (See Goliath versus David).

Or Cary Grant in 'Mr. Lucky' with a role of nickles in his fist, he goes behind the wall on the stairs to take on his opponent, you hear one hit, watch nickles rolling down the stairs and then he comes walking down.

Or a hand full of change for projection weapons.

Still another movie pen reference. Matt Damon in the Bourne Identity with a bic pen... ouch!


Edited by Victor Smith (08/16/06 01:05 PM)
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#268792 - 08/16/06 12:27 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Victor Smith]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA

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#268793 - 08/17/06 12:44 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

Pepper spray is the answer




Is it really? Spray me and i'm taking your head off. I hate to tell you this but pepper spray doesn't work on everyone and it's less likely to work on those with a strong intent on harming you or those who are on certain types of narcotics. It's obvious your knowledge of the subject is very limited and as a result i would caution you to quit while your behind before you make a fool of yourself.

As paradox has pointed out more than once a pen would not necessarily be used in the same manner as a knife. It would be used more along the lines of a kubotan, if you don't know what it is google it. Forget the Bourne Supremacy and try listening to those who more than a years experience. I don't condone or endorse the carry of anything with the intent of using it as a weapon even if it is only for self defense. But if you are attacked use what you can and in order to do that you need to train for it. If using a good sturdy pen it can be a VERY good weapon. Just because your limited understanding doesn't allow you to see this doesn't mean it's not true.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268794 - 08/17/06 03:25 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
can i just ask, If you can manage to land a hammer fist on someones neck or whatever, why would you need the pen? Sure, you could probably "wield" the pen well, but its completely stupid..a switchblade is infinitly more reliable, plus they wont fall over laughing when they see it.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268795 - 08/17/06 05:11 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Exactly my point, you lack the understanding of what something like a pen can be used for. A hammer fist with a pen is a STABBING motion. Generally this is NOT what they are used for. Many as a means to facilitate pain compliance techniques or “come along” techniques use them. The object is rarely if ever to stab or cut anyone using a pen. They can be used to produce leverage by applying pressure to soft tissue parts of a body during grappling. Depending on the type and size of the pen they can be used to initiate wristlocks or small joint manipulation. They can be used to provide the fist with a bit more density increasing the impact effects. While some can be used in a stabbing motion the effectiveness of this is slim unless you’re lucky enough to find an artery or air way. Like i said look up the kubotan and find out what some of it's uses are, most relate directly to a sturdy pen. Just because YOU don't see the value of something or it's uses in a particular situation doesn't mean it's stupid. It just means it's a level or more above your understanding at this moment.

Besides if they are "falling all over themselves laughing" then you have the perfect opportunity to separate your self from the situation. That or their "over confidence" can now be their mistake. Best bet is to train with various BASIC weapons in order to get down some gross motor skills with various items that can be substituted with other more popular, locally found items. Hanbo and kubotan training are very good examples of what to train. It's generally pretty easy to find a broom handle, stick, pipe or what ever to substitute for the hanbo and kubaton. You are much less likely to find yourself in jail if you are defending your life with something you found on the side of the street. In most places and most cases it all boils down to articulation. How did you explain WHY you needed to do what you did? What actions did the attacker take to lead you to your conclusion? What was your emotional state at the time?

How about arguing about how stupid you think a pen as a self defense weapon is we focus on the topic. I hope some light bulbs went off somewhere.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268796 - 08/17/06 05:39 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: laf7773]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
look, im gonna give this one last try ok? If you are an average bloke and you are attacked on the street, and you happen to have a pen is your pocket, it means nothing, the pen is useless. If you are a trained martial arts expert, and you are skilled in the use of such weapons then sure, you can disable, or kill someone with that pen, BUT my point is, If you happen to be a traiend martial arts expert, then you wont need the pen, you can just use your hands. And what im also trying to say is that if you are so worried about being mugged or whatnot, you should not be bothered with the tiny advantage of having a biro, and just carry a switchblade or pepperspray around.They are far more effective and intimidating weapons than the plastic pen.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268797 - 08/17/06 07:57 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Your definition of a 'trained martial artist' is the problem. Training is a process with certain benchmarks, but no guarantees. Training is all about having the advantage, and while many martial artists may feel most comfortable employing their empty hand techniques...I doubt few would argue that having a weapon, and knowing how to use it, would not be to their advantage.

With your way of thinking, no martial artist would ever feel the need to study weapons.

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