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#268748 - 07/02/06 11:21 PM Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal
Darthmaul Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 16
Is there any weapon you can carry for self defence that is legal? Oh I live in NY, USA.

I was never was really into carrying a weapon, but one of my relatives was recently attacked with guys with bats (ok I know that's tough) leaving for work early in the morning, so it got me thinking I do travel on the trains late at times and come home late, maybe I should just have something.

I know I have seen a long stick that people put on there key chain. I know knives are pretty much illegal (but then I hear it depends on the size), mace and pepper spray also have diffrent rules too depending on where you live.

Well just wondering, thanks.

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#268749 - 07/03/06 01:33 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Darthmaul]
Joe7987 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Orlando, FL
This may be a bit awkward, but the cane (yes the one old people use) can be a very effective weapon. My instructor's instructor once put on a demo in which he used a cane and it was simply amazing.

EDIT: Well isnt that ironic - after posting this I went to see what other threads there were in the forum, and one of the newer threads deals with cane defense. lol

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#268750 - 07/03/06 05:49 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Darthmaul]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
You'll need to check the laws of your particular country. What is legal in some places is illegal in others.

Perhaps a cane or umbrella would make a useful item to carry, for something to keep would be attackers at a distance or a metal pen if they get closer and you need something like a kubotan but a legal thing that anyone would carry.

I have read of some people carrying other tools such as pliers or screwdrivers as tools of their trade which could be used if necessary.

The best thing though is to not go looking for trouble. It can find you easily enough so why tempt fate?
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#268751 - 07/03/06 07:08 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Darthmaul]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
two words: PEPPER SPRAY

Great for self defense, you spray it and run. I've never heard of anyone being charged for using pepper spray in a confrontation. The reason is simple- there is no way you can purposefully kill or assault someone with pepper spray, therefore there is no INTENT. Other weapons like knives, canes etc. can all be purposefully used to inflict disproportional damage, and can open you to charges if you are ont careful.

That is why I will always stand by good ol' pepper spray.

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#268752 - 07/03/06 10:05 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Supremor]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Pepper spray is legal in all 50 states but there are limitations on where it can be carried. While i do think it is one of the better self defense tools i don't agree that it can't be used as a tool for assault. Additionally don't think it's going to work on everyone every time.
http://www.milestonesafety.com/pepper-spray-information.html

As far as what weapon you can legally carry, i think there is a better question you should be asking but not here. Your question should be what does the law say about self defense and what am i legally allowed to do to defend myself. These kind of questions can't be answered to any real satisfaction here because the chances of you finding a member who is either in law enforcement or a lawyer in your particular area is slim. While you may get some good advise and useful opinions here they rarely apply to you and your location. I would suggest checking with your local law enforcement office for what is acceptable in your area. Your weapon of choice doesn't have to be a "weapon" by design. A ballpoint pen can be a weapon and can land you a bit of jail time if used maliciously when attacked. Knowing what you are legally allowed to do in a situation prior to finding your self there can mean the difference in saving your life and saving your life and going to prison.

Your best weapon is being able to recognize a potentially bad situation and having the common sense to do what you can to avoid it.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268753 - 07/03/06 10:06 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: Darthmaul]
Tezza Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 775
Loc: Kent, U.K.
The best one by far is a pen as it has many uses. Especially in self defence hitting vital points. I always carry one around with me not just for self defence purposes.
Also an umbrella in the rain lol. Stab people with the pointy end. Thats what you need in the highstreet when people get in the way.
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Train Hard Tez WT Central

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#268754 - 07/03/06 10:21 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: Tezza]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Who said anything about hitting "vital points"? Your sarcasm is noted, misplaced but noted. Maybe in your infinite wisdom and experience you have something productive to add to the discussion?
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268755 - 07/04/06 12:37 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: laf7773]
Tezza Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 775
Loc: Kent, U.K.
I apologise laf7773 if I offended you.
I was only talking about it like that, because what if your attacker had a knife and all you had was the items in your pocket. Therefore as I carry a pen around I could use that only if neccesary.
Also its legal to carry a pen.
Sorry if I offended you, I didnt mean to cause harm
_________________________
Train Hard Tez WT Central

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#268756 - 07/05/06 12:31 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: Tezza]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Been carrying pens and teaching their use for self defense for years. Cheap bic types work just fine, but will break after a bit. If you want you can spend a bit of money and get a nice titanium one (you can drive them through a board.)

Bottom line, like you said they are legal everywhere and non-threatening to boot.
_________________________
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268757 - 07/08/06 12:28 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I agree on the pen thing. I have a very expensive German made pen that is very heavy and I could easily stab someone quite deeply with the pointy end, or hit a pressure point with the other, as well as do minor grappling with it. Metal pens can be very very strong. There's a reason tessen were so popular with police in the 1800's in Japan!

Check your state laws. Another weapon that I carry is a hissatsu 'tactical' knife which is REALLY long and probably not legal to carry in New York. Nevertheless, check it out, because if you are able to carry it (concealed) that kind of weapon will end most confrontations very quickly. Very durable, thick metal, and meant for fast kills. Here's a pic..
http://images.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_Hissatsu4.jpg The blade is huge though and probably not legal to carry concealed.

If you can't have one of those, there are also jutte which are kind of like old fashioned police batons. Same purpose anyway, generally nonlethal, can be used for very hard grappling, striking and you can throw them at someone. If you are trained at throwing things like axes or shuriken you could probably throw one deep into someone through a few layers of clothing if the end is tapered/sharpened.

You should always have 2 weapons on your person, one nonlethal and one lethal. Use whichever one you think is most appropriate if the excrement hits the rotary.

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#268758 - 07/08/06 04:22 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: Darthmaul]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
It doesn't matter if what you are carrying is legal or not. What matters is how you use what you have. A pillow isn't something you would think of as a weapon but if used to suffocate someone it will be seen as such by the courts. I wasn't trying to encourage anyone to use a pen as a weapon, what needs to be done is get familiar with your local laws. This way you know what you are legally able to do in self defense. Many states have different views on what "reasonable force" is. In some states it's legal to use deadly force to eject an intruder from your home but in many it will land you in prison, regardless of what you used to execute your actions. What is considered excessive force in your state? What are the justifications for deadly force in your state and how are those justifications defined? In some states you are justified in defending your self if someone verbally threatens you and shows physical intent to carry out the threat (shoving, poking a finger in your chest or other aggressive physical actions but not necessarily striking). In other states they must physically attack you first. Know what your legal actions are before you start carrying ANYTHING with the intent of using it for self defense.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268759 - 07/08/06 10:14 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: laf7773]
Tezza Offline
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Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 775
Loc: Kent, U.K.
Very valid point laf7773
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#268760 - 08/13/06 04:13 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Tezza]
nauschalk Offline
Zany in a very dull way

Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Texas
A handgun.

"There are two types of people in this world: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
_________________________
"There are two types of people in this world: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

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#268761 - 08/14/06 04:02 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: nauschalk]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
youd have to be a complete dodohead to actually attempt to defend yourself with a pen, you are on a MARTIAL ARTS board you know, use what god gave you.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268762 - 08/14/06 05:05 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Quote:

youd have to be a complete dodohead to actually attempt to defend yourself with a pen, you are on a MARTIAL ARTS board you know, use what god gave you.




Alright, let's have a challenge match, no gloves. You defend yourself with your bare hands and I get to use a metal pen in addition to my bare hands.

If you knew anything of the history of Japanese martial arts you'd realize the significance of pen sized objects. Here's a word for you to look up: tessen

Here's another: tanbo

And another: syuriken

Items very similar to pens served as important defense tools for 300 years.

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#268763 - 08/14/06 05:13 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
That IS the point...a complete MAist should (ideally) be able to use whatever tool s/he has at hand.

Quote:

youd have to be a complete dodohead to actually attempt to defend yourself with a pen, you are on a MARTIAL ARTS board you know, use what god gave you.



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#268764 - 08/14/06 09:06 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth


sigh ...
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#268765 - 08/15/06 01:40 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
But Harlan, he does have an entire year of Shotokan and 3 years of boxing under his belt. I'm sure he knows quite well what he is talking about.

I mean who are we? What do we know? I know i'm certainly oblivious to any form of legitimate martial arts or the needs of successful self defense.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268766 - 08/15/06 05:29 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paradoxbox]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
ok parad, think of a blade, sharp at the front, and the side. Meaning they can either slash in any direction, or stab. Now think of a pen. A pens sharp end is the top, meaning the only movement you could do would be a thrust. Making it incredibly predictable, unless you can somehow manage to cut me with the side of the pen. You would be totally predictable, and would get annihalated. Face it man, its a silly idea. Oh yes i just looked up your objects, which all happen to be sharp at all points and specificlly designed with combat in mind.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268767 - 08/15/06 08:01 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Well, until someone with some knowledge comes on (not me...I'm a beginner)...I'd like to point out that blades are often illegal...and so out of the scope of this thread topic.

'K.I.S.S.' It's about preferences....like empty hand MA...not one thing works equally well for everybody. The tessan, I think was pointed out for a reason: it is also a matter of....class...and degree of MA proficiency.

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#268768 - 08/15/06 08:49 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Well if you are that insanely determined on defending yourself..just carry a switch around. Sure its illegal, but hell, whos gonna search you unless you use it
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268769 - 08/15/06 08:53 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Hmmm...I prefer a garrote.

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#268770 - 08/15/06 10:31 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
You could use the pointed end of your head.

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#268771 - 08/15/06 11:04 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: oldman]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
pointed end...like the nose?
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268772 - 08/15/06 01:36 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Quote:

Now think of a pen. A pens sharp end is the top, meaning the only movement you could do would be a thrust.




Your thinking is limited, you use a pen like youíd use an Ice pick with the pointy end sticking out the pinky end of your fist. Vicious weapon if you hold it right. If you ask around some of the LEO types they could probably confirm that the majority of improvised prison weapons are stabbing type implements and they are used very effectively. Bottom line is that anything is better than nothing when out numbered and outgunned.

And again the thread is about legal carry weapons, which in many areas excludes edged weapons. Another good choice is a small flashlight like a mini maglite or other similar brand, makes a good fistload use it like a kobutan (kind of handy to have a light anyway.) A bigass locking type carabineer can work like a fistload/knuckles and itís handy to hang your flash light from.

In your vehicle how about a 12 oz. can of Bear spray. Most personal defense pepper spray is 5 Ė10% Bear spray is 20% +. Four-cell flashlight under the seat or military type e-tool are pretty affective. My daughter carries a aluminum bat in the backseat of her car along with ball and glove for window dressing.
_________________________
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268773 - 08/15/06 11:10 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
swseibukan my thnking isnt limited, the fact is its a silly idea, if you have the proficiency to wield a damn pen like its a blade, then you sure as hell dont need it. Pepper spray is the answer
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268774 - 08/15/06 11:19 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Crab...have you ever been assaulted? I mean...seriously assaulted by someone, taken by surprise by someone with the intent to harm you? I only ask...because I have. Personally, I doubt the efficacy of spray in time sensitive situations. If I had a choice between spray and a titanium pen...I'd take the pen. Feel free to stick to spray. Perhaps you can brain the guy with the empty can when it's done.

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#268775 - 08/15/06 11:30 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
For christ sake harlan, your argument is ridiculous, If you really are capable of using a pen like a blade, you dont need it. There you go, oh yeah and if you can show me a video of someone demonstating pen fighting techniques id be very interested.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268776 - 08/15/06 11:42 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Please refrain from immoderate speech. I've noted swearing in your posts, and it is not allowed...although there is some leeway depending of the value of the post.

Also, I did not say I would use a pen like a blade. With my beginner understanding of weapons, I would probably be thinking of chizi kun bo.

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#268777 - 08/15/06 11:54 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
exactly, If you cant weild it like a blade, it is almost useless. You can only thrust, and even your average mugger would just laugh at you. Just carry a switch around man, because a pen for self defence is stupid.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268778 - 08/15/06 11:59 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I don't know how much he would be laughing after a couple of stabs to the femoral arteries/vital points. But of course, that would be if it was serious. For a mugger...give him the money and shut up.

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#268779 - 08/16/06 12:26 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
im not even gonna say any more about this, its totally ridiculous.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268780 - 08/16/06 12:37 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
alphawolf Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 137
walk around NY with a naginata, it'll get you noticed.
_________________________
More chi! Train harder!

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#268781 - 08/16/06 02:57 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: alphawolf]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
It certainly is rediculous crablord, you're in way over your head here.

Pens aren't used for stabbing! Why you got that idea, I don't know. Pens are to be used for grappling, for hitting nerves, for using as force multipliers in addition to regular strikes, and as an all around non lethal weapon that can be carried anywhere.

Heavy German steel pens can be swung around hard enough to fracture bones on the wrist or the fingers, in addition they can be used as force multipliers if striking pressure points such as the temple or adams apple, etc.

They can also be thrown extremely hard into the face of an opponent while you move in to throw them.

Pens hung on a string or cord can be used like a manrikigusari or even handcuffs. Have you ever seen someone get arrested by having their arms tied behind their back by a pen with a loop of chain on the end of it? It's the same idea as a tessen.

Clearly you are not on the right track when it comes to Japanese martial arts. I know that in various Okinawan karate styles objects the size of pens are used, I'd suggest you train a little longer to become more familiar with those objects before casting such a rediculous opinion of a useful object.

Here's some light reading material on the subject.
http://www.e-budokai.com/hibuki/tessen.htm

Tessen and pens are the same thing for all intents and purposes.

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#268782 - 08/16/06 03:31 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paradoxbox]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Why bother? Just hit them, not swing some stupid homemade pen on a string at them. Or use pepper spray... pens for defence, its laughable
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268783 - 08/16/06 07:38 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA


When will I ever learn? 'Don't feed the trolls.'

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#268784 - 08/16/06 07:55 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
how about a comprimise, and go with a 'pepper pen'
http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/pepper-pen.htm

seriously:
hairpins have a long history in japan as a self-defense weapon.

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#268785 - 08/16/06 07:59 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Ed_Morris]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I can see me trying to explain to my local chief of police why I want a F.I.D. card for pepper spray disquised as a pen.

'So, I can basically carry around a concealed weapon....'

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#268786 - 08/16/06 08:23 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
ken harding Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 721
Loc: UK
Proof that the pen is mightier than the sword if ever it was needed.
_________________________
Heijo Shin

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#268787 - 08/16/06 11:50 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Crablord
Quote:

swseibukan my thnking isnt limited, the fact is its a silly idea, if you have the proficiency to wield a damn pen like its a blade, then you sure as hell dont need it. Pepper spray is the answer



Never suggested that you wield a pen like a blade, I recommended that it be used like an ice pick. Striking with hammer fist, depending on the pen and the size of your hand 1 Ė 2Ē will protrude from your hand.

Paradoxbox
Quote:

Pens aren't used for stabbing! Why you got that idea, I don't know. Pens are to be used for grappling, for hitting nerves, for using as force multipliers in addition to regular strikes, and as an all around non lethal weapon that can be carried anywhere.



Actually leaves a pretty messy whole. Try it for yourself on a pot roast or a melon.

Does anyone here remember the old BIC pen commercials from the 60ís and 70ís where they drove the pen through a 1Ē board and then wrote with it to demonstrated the durability of the ball point? Well I think it demonstrated more than the ballpoint durability it demonstrated the penetration potential.
_________________________
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268788 - 08/16/06 11:54 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
I suppose the difference would come down to intent, and training.

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#268789 - 08/16/06 12:13 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Harlan,

The use of non-conventional items as weapons is a more unusual study than many suggest.

For example the Bando stick studies we undertake can be used with anything that you can put into your hands, including your empty hands.

So Pens, books, rulers, newspapers, cans, chains, rope and many other items can be wielded to impact for effect on an opponent. They are not used one way but a variety of ways, but the the stick is used a variety of different ways too.

The pen as a defensive weapon actually has a long tradition in various countries. Japanese yawara sticks are about the same length of pens, and the Okinawn use of fishing net floats fill the same role. They can only strike into weak areas, or peel skin off of an opponent depending on usage.

Rings, especially as advanced practioners in Bando, Pai Lum and other arts, if they have raised surfaces also work as unconventional weapons.

Of course belts, chains and bracelets can be used, or coats carried over your shoulder or arm.

In fact a piece of kleenex can be used in a variety of ways. None of which I am willing to share openly,< GRIN >.

Tashadi Yamashida, who backs away from nobody, has a really great one in an old Panther video. He takes a white gym sock and drops his keys into it, the bigger the ball of keys the better. And then uses the sock as a nunchaku.

Of course a key ring, with the keys splayed through ones fingers in a fist become a rather viscous set of non-brass knuckles.

The state of Massachusetts classes the 'shod foot' as a weapon that can be a criminal charged if used. So if you kick somebody with your shoes on you're breaking the law, and I've seen people charged with this (and they were non martial artists who would likely get charged harder).

Of course if you are trained how to use such implements, and other scoff and procliam only a fool would attempt to do so, GREAT. YOU DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#268790 - 08/16/06 12:15 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Victor Smith]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
'Unconventional weapons'...my new hobby.

Quote:

Harlan...

GREAT. YOU DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU CAN DO!!!!!!!!!!!!



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#268791 - 08/16/06 12:22 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Alas, I forgot the simplest "ROCKS", they rock!

Of course Sticks and Stones can break your bones, and little pebbles can fell a giant (See Goliath versus David).

Or Cary Grant in 'Mr. Lucky' with a role of nickles in his fist, he goes behind the wall on the stairs to take on his opponent, you hear one hit, watch nickles rolling down the stairs and then he comes walking down.

Or a hand full of change for projection weapons.

Still another movie pen reference. Matt Damon in the Bourne Identity with a bic pen... ouch!


Edited by Victor Smith (08/16/06 01:05 PM)
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#268792 - 08/16/06 12:27 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Victor Smith]
harlan Offline
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#268793 - 08/17/06 12:44 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

Pepper spray is the answer




Is it really? Spray me and i'm taking your head off. I hate to tell you this but pepper spray doesn't work on everyone and it's less likely to work on those with a strong intent on harming you or those who are on certain types of narcotics. It's obvious your knowledge of the subject is very limited and as a result i would caution you to quit while your behind before you make a fool of yourself.

As paradox has pointed out more than once a pen would not necessarily be used in the same manner as a knife. It would be used more along the lines of a kubotan, if you don't know what it is google it. Forget the Bourne Supremacy and try listening to those who more than a years experience. I don't condone or endorse the carry of anything with the intent of using it as a weapon even if it is only for self defense. But if you are attacked use what you can and in order to do that you need to train for it. If using a good sturdy pen it can be a VERY good weapon. Just because your limited understanding doesn't allow you to see this doesn't mean it's not true.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268794 - 08/17/06 03:25 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
can i just ask, If you can manage to land a hammer fist on someones neck or whatever, why would you need the pen? Sure, you could probably "wield" the pen well, but its completely stupid..a switchblade is infinitly more reliable, plus they wont fall over laughing when they see it.
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268795 - 08/17/06 05:11 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
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Loc: Limbo
Exactly my point, you lack the understanding of what something like a pen can be used for. A hammer fist with a pen is a STABBING motion. Generally this is NOT what they are used for. Many as a means to facilitate pain compliance techniques or ďcome alongĒ techniques use them. The object is rarely if ever to stab or cut anyone using a pen. They can be used to produce leverage by applying pressure to soft tissue parts of a body during grappling. Depending on the type and size of the pen they can be used to initiate wristlocks or small joint manipulation. They can be used to provide the fist with a bit more density increasing the impact effects. While some can be used in a stabbing motion the effectiveness of this is slim unless youíre lucky enough to find an artery or air way. Like i said look up the kubotan and find out what some of it's uses are, most relate directly to a sturdy pen. Just because YOU don't see the value of something or it's uses in a particular situation doesn't mean it's stupid. It just means it's a level or more above your understanding at this moment.

Besides if they are "falling all over themselves laughing" then you have the perfect opportunity to separate your self from the situation. That or their "over confidence" can now be their mistake. Best bet is to train with various BASIC weapons in order to get down some gross motor skills with various items that can be substituted with other more popular, locally found items. Hanbo and kubotan training are very good examples of what to train. It's generally pretty easy to find a broom handle, stick, pipe or what ever to substitute for the hanbo and kubaton. You are much less likely to find yourself in jail if you are defending your life with something you found on the side of the street. In most places and most cases it all boils down to articulation. How did you explain WHY you needed to do what you did? What actions did the attacker take to lead you to your conclusion? What was your emotional state at the time?

How about arguing about how stupid you think a pen as a self defense weapon is we focus on the topic. I hope some light bulbs went off somewhere.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268796 - 08/17/06 05:39 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: laf7773]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
look, im gonna give this one last try ok? If you are an average bloke and you are attacked on the street, and you happen to have a pen is your pocket, it means nothing, the pen is useless. If you are a trained martial arts expert, and you are skilled in the use of such weapons then sure, you can disable, or kill someone with that pen, BUT my point is, If you happen to be a traiend martial arts expert, then you wont need the pen, you can just use your hands. And what im also trying to say is that if you are so worried about being mugged or whatnot, you should not be bothered with the tiny advantage of having a biro, and just carry a switchblade or pepperspray around.They are far more effective and intimidating weapons than the plastic pen.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268797 - 08/17/06 07:57 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
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Loc: Amherst, MA
Your definition of a 'trained martial artist' is the problem. Training is a process with certain benchmarks, but no guarantees. Training is all about having the advantage, and while many martial artists may feel most comfortable employing their empty hand techniques...I doubt few would argue that having a weapon, and knowing how to use it, would not be to their advantage.

With your way of thinking, no martial artist would ever feel the need to study weapons.

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#268798 - 08/17/06 09:07 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
a F******* PEN IS NOT A WEAPON, ITS WRITING TOOL

-----------------------------------
WATCH your language please!
-----------------------------------

Remember that the topic here is
<<Weapons that you can carry for self defense>>

Anything you can get your hands on legally constitutes a weapon in my book.

Pens can make useful substitutes for yarawa [sp?] sticks or kubotans and are not objects that will land you in prison. They may make the difference for you between life and death in a serious situation.


Edited by Reiki (08/17/06 06:25 PM)

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#268799 - 08/17/06 09:13 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
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Loc: Amherst, MA
Apparently, one that you have yet to master.

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#268800 - 08/17/06 10:02 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
oldman Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
"A WRITING TOOL"

I'm not sure if I'm clear on this yet. Do you mean a "writing impliment" or do you mean "an individual who is attempting to comunicate through the written word,about whom you are refering to as a pen is"

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#268801 - 08/17/06 10:29 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
Ed_Morris Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
here you go crabload:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GRuEhzJj23w
use your imaginition what a lifer in prison could do to you with a pen.

you can explain to him a pen is not a weapon while he "dots the eyes and crosses the tees"

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#268802 - 08/17/06 10:32 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
a F******* PEN IS NOT A WEAPON, ITS WRITING TOOL


Hi there.
Could I ask you a question?

Does swearing help in sparring?

I would have difficulty doing it because of my mouth piece.

There seems to be a fair amount of written knowledge on using pens .

Should be a laughing smiley here but seen as your using the
capital letters I couldnt find a larger smiley
Again it is down to reading.

So it would seem you dont like pens or maki waris?

Interesting.If you get caught by the police in this country with what you term as a switch blade it means you might get to visit the kind of guys who attacked someone with a pen that Ed posted a vidio of.

Then you could discuss the fact of pen use with some one like that. Im pretty sure the same rules apply in Australia







Edited by ANDY44 (08/17/06 10:51 AM)

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#268803 - 08/17/06 10:48 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
crablord,

No I'm afraid you don't get it. Being a martial artist doesn't mean making it hard on yourself. Intelligent self defense in randmo situtations dictates you always try to use a force multiplier if possible.

Yes your empty hand technique may be sufficient, but you're being attacked, and the use of environmental weapons increases your ability to respond to an attacker.

Even the pen you don't really understand, allows you to hit harder, and perhaps experience less pain in the process.

This does not mean the pen is an optimal choice, but the use of convenient environmental weapons, enhanced by appropriate training, gives you a force multiplier.

Your training is a force multiplier to your empty hand technique. Skill and practice continue to multiply your technique.

Only a fool, if attacked, ignores any way to repsond with force.

And that's the issue. It isn't you don't understand what a pen can do, its simply you don't undersand how to respond at all.

I encourage you to cling to your belief if attacked. Keep that pen in your pocket and best wishes.
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#268804 - 08/17/06 12:26 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Victor Smith]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Well said Victor.

Crablord,

A pen would not be my first choice of weapons but itís in my arsenal. But you go ahead put that switchblade to use, a stretch in prison will give you some good firsthand knowledge of improvised stabbing weapons.
_________________________
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268805 - 08/17/06 06:31 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Victor Smith]
Reiki Offline
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Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Very nicely put Victor!

I have yet to see any weapons techniques that do not improve openhanded techniques....

this is why most of us learn weapons techniques [apart from the fun aspect that is].

Think on that my crabby little buddy

So tasty on the BBQ....
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Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#268806 - 08/18/06 01:44 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Reiki]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Like I said, If your that inconfident abou your own abiliteis, then acarry a switch around. A switch is more dangerous and more intimidating. Ok? sure a pen may work, but why use it when something else works so much better, i can tell you now if you tried to attack me with a pen you would get whooped
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268807 - 08/18/06 02:26 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
paradoxbox Offline
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I'll take that bet... look me up the next time you're in Japan or Vancouver. You go bareknuckle, I get a metal pen. Round 1: FIGHT!

http://videogameviolence.pbwiki.com/f/streetfighter03.png

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#268808 - 08/18/06 03:43 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paradoxbox]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
im the guy on the right
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268809 - 08/18/06 04:09 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
crab,

You aren't seeing it. The use of alternative weapons is mostly for defense, not to attack you but to take you're attack appart.

Actually for crab's I normally just use kleenex as my force multiplier.

It both works well and can be used to clean my fingers off afterwards.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#268810 - 08/18/06 05:42 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Victor Smith]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Well good luck defending yourself with a pen guys, Ill stick with my fists, or a blade of some sort.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268811 - 08/18/06 09:18 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Quote:

Like I said, If your that inconfident abou your own abiliteis, then acarry a switch around.




I gib up.

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#268812 - 08/18/06 09:30 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: oldman]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
moo
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268813 - 08/18/06 09:38 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Anyone up for 'surf and turf'?

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#268814 - 08/18/06 09:52 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
pen me in.

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#268815 - 08/18/06 10:13 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
i have an 'ink'ling I would be up for that
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#268816 - 08/18/06 11:00 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Quote:

Like I said, If your that inconfident abou your own abiliteis, then acarry a switch around. A switch is more dangerous and more intimidating. Ok?



Iím very confident in my abilities, Iím able to pretty much use anything I can lay my hands on as a weapon. However you are still missing the point, just two words "LEAGAL RAMIFICATIONS." A knife has only one speed "LETHAL" and will likely land you in jail when you use it. In some areas simply possessing the weapon will get you put away. As far as an intimidation factor, some people donít get intimidated they just change their tactics.

Quote:

sure a pen may work, but why use it when something else works so much better, i can tell you now if you tried to attack me with a pen you would get whooped


And I feel pretty confident in saying, youíd never see it coming.
_________________________
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268817 - 08/18/06 02:03 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Crab,

I understand your only 15 or 16 years old and by default think your 10ft tall and bullet proof. Well your not but thatís a different topic all together. The simple fact of the matter is your in over your head hear and don't know what your talking about. Your trying to make an argument of something you have limited experience with. A good majority of people you are arguing with have been training longer than you have been alive. You obviously aren't getting what people are trying to explain to you so your pretty much a lost cause until you grow up a little and get some experience under your belt.

As someone stated before if you are caught with a switchblade, even if your not using it, you go to jail. It's like that anywhere in the US and i'm sure there are similar laws in many other countries. If you were to be attacked and used a switchblade to defend yourself you go to prison, if they die you go for much longer. No ifs, ands or buts about it. There are no "what if" scenarios. You engaged someone with a known illegal weapon; simply possessing one implies intent to use it to harm someone.

The use of a pen on the other hand, depending on how you articulate things to the authorities, is a simple writing utensil. It's an "improvised" weapon meaning you are not carrying it for the purpose of doing harm so someone but instead used what you had available to protect your life. The fact that it can be used just as effectively as a knife or many other intended weapons to defend your life negates you entire argument.

Just because you lack the foresight to see the benefits and uses of certain improvised weapons doesn't mean they are any less effective or practical. Train for a few more years and get some experience then check back with us in about a decade.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268818 - 08/18/06 06:56 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Iím sure others have noticed that if you substitute a ďpĒ for the ďbĒ and an ďaĒ for the ďrĒ youíve got a pretty good handle on the crablord.
_________________________
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268819 - 08/18/06 09:09 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
alright gl next time your attacked, youll need it
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268820 - 08/18/06 10:02 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

alright gl next time your attacked, youll need it




I'm glad to see you have such a good understanding of what other peopleís skill and abilities are. Good luck finding your way home, you'll need it.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268821 - 08/19/06 12:13 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Hey, don't you all know a year of shotokan makes you an expert at everything?

This guy beat Einstein to relativity. He just never mentioned it before.

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#268822 - 08/19/06 02:16 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paradoxbox]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
can you lot stop paying me out already? you dont know me, youve never met me. So dont act like you do, How about we just forget this damn conversation ever happened and talk about other things. Ok? Ill stop making remarks about the pen thing if you will stop too. Thanks.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268823 - 08/19/06 03:36 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Exactly why i suggested you quit while you were behind. Maybe you should learn to take the collective knowledge here as just what it is, decades of training and experience. Not the narrow minded view of someone with neither training or experience.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268824 - 08/19/06 04:18 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: laf7773]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
im pretty sure that was a payout, and you yourself even said you have never trained in a ma before. And just because im 15 doesnt mean that i dont know what im talking about. I regularly do weapons and weapon defence classes, and I was merely remarking about the usage of a pen in a fight. So why dont you quit with the smartass remarks about my intelligence,and instead try to realise what im saying instead of having the "narrow" view that everyone who doesnt agree with you knows nothing
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268825 - 08/19/06 12:11 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
Borrek Offline
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Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Quote:

im pretty sure that was a payout, and you yourself even said you have never trained in a ma before. And just because im 15 doesnt mean that i dont know what im talking about. I regularly do weapons and weapon defence classes, and I was merely remarking about the usage of a pen in a fight. So why dont you quit with the smartass remarks about my intelligence,and instead try to realise what im saying instead of having the "narrow" view that everyone who doesnt agree with you knows nothing




Dude, just about everyone who has been trying to have a decent conversation on easy access weapons has been training in martial arts for longer than your 15 years of life.

It seems you have yet to learn the aspects of martial arts that govern knowing when you keep your mouth shut.

Take a look at these: http://weaponsconnection.com/weapon_images/s_techu3.jpg

These are not meant for stabbing or slashing yet they are still vicious. Anything you can do with these you can do with a ball point pen.

Learn when to bow out gracefully.

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#268826 - 08/19/06 12:42 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Borrek]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
bow out? just because a few people on a forum whom ive never met before "say so" doesnt mean that I have to believe it. Im still taking the same position as before on this. Oh yeah the folks at the dojo seem to think of it as ridiculous as well. Im not gonna change my mind, doesnt seem like you lot will wither, so itd probably be a good idea to lock this topic. Because im getting sick of arguing over this.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268827 - 08/19/06 05:34 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
you are in over your head here. And if you are training in a school that does not see the value of improvised tools, I'd look for a new school.

But just out of curiosity, which nijer clan is it that you train with?
_________________________
Pat O'Brien
Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268828 - 08/19/06 09:57 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: swseibukan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
combined martial arts...
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268829 - 08/20/06 12:03 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
paradoxbox Offline
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
So is that boxing and shotokan?

If so your shotokan teacher ought to know about improvised weapons, including pens, if he doesn't, find a new teacher.

Boxing coaches usually know about boxing.

The entire conception of kobudo (Okinawan) weaponry revolved around being able to adapt to objects at hand.

Why are you studying an art like that when you either a) totally disagree with those principles or b) you just don't know what the hell you're talking about but have gone too far now that you can't shut yourself up?

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#268830 - 08/20/06 12:06 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paradoxbox]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
i do boxing separtatly. The karate is at combined martial arts. And Its frigging pointless to go to karate to learn self defence if im gonna be a pusy and use a pen. [censored] improvised weapons


Edited by crablord (08/20/06 12:17 AM)
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268831 - 08/20/06 12:21 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
oldman Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Hmmm...CrapLord. Thats it, CrapLord.

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#268832 - 08/20/06 12:37 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
paradoxbox Offline
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Sounds like you're just a kid with a potty mouth that knows it all.

You'll look back on these posts a few months from now and regret it.

I've never heard of karate being combined martial arts besides wado ryu. Sounds like your school's a bit flaky.

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#268833 - 08/20/06 04:57 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

im pretty sure that was a payout, and you yourself even said you have never trained in a ma before.




What gives you this ridiculous idea? Was it this post to Harlan in response to you, a post that was obviously sarcasm?

Quote:

But Harlan, he does have an entire year of Shotokan and 3 years of boxing under his belt. I'm sure he knows quite well what he is talking about.

I mean who are we? What do we know? I know i'm certainly oblivious to any form of legitimate martial arts or the needs of successful self defense.




Since you don't seem able to keep up i'll be more direct. If you can't catch something as simple as the heavy sarcasm that was laid out there then there are other issues you may need to address. I have more than 20 years of martial arts training (yes longer than you have been alive) in addition to my current job and training with military police. I know a bit about improvised weapons and have seen first hand what a pen can do to someone. Unfortunately the pen is not mightier than the ASP. As i've said, your not getting it, come back in a few years after more training and experience.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268834 - 08/20/06 05:03 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

i do boxing separtatly. The karate is at combined martial arts. And Its frigging pointless to go to karate to learn self defence if im gonna be a pusy and use a pen. [censored] improvised weapons




Is this the place by any chance?
http://www.c-m-a.com.au/
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268835 - 08/20/06 05:15 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: laf7773]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Forgive me for not knowing all about you and your ma background laf, not that your profile even hints that youve ever done it before, and yes thats their website.
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268836 - 08/20/06 02:45 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Thanks for the link Laf. I don't know anything about this S.T.A.R. program (but because it is in my backyard, Massachusetts, I'm guess I should learn).

http://www.c-m-a.com.au/index.cfm?page=7

Crab...after looking at the focus of your school, I can see why they don't advocate weapons training. I'm not saying anything against your school...it is what it is.

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#268837 - 08/20/06 06:34 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: harlan]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
we do weapons training, nunhucks, staffs etc. And weapons defence, but we dont do improvised weapons.
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268838 - 08/20/06 09:00 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
Reiki Offline
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Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Maybe you should discuss doing this with your instructor as part of a training camp exercise on self defense and street techniques.

Have a goodie bag full of odd items and select one each [as you would if you were attacked by someone and didnt have a nore normal weapon handy] and develop some SD techniques that you could use it for.

We do this from time to time with our students along with knife defenses and its a very interesting exercise.

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#268839 - 08/20/06 11:05 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
oldman Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Has anyone seen my play do?

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#268840 - 08/21/06 12:00 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
paradoxbox Offline
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
all of those things are improvised weapons buddy

where do you think bojutsu 'staffs' came from? On the mainland it was if the end of your yari or naginata broke off. In Okinawa it would likely be because nothing else was allowed. That's improvisation.

Kobudo weapons were all about improvising, when will you ever see the light?

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#268841 - 08/21/06 01:37 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paradoxbox]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Its not that I dont see what you guys are getting at, I understand, but get what im saying - Anyone can stab someone with a pen, theres no skill in it. But I go to training so I know how to defend myself without the pen. I dont believe in relying on an pen during life or death situations. What If you dont have a pen? or any weapon for that matter, Im just saying we should be concentrating more on training for an unarmed fight than one where you are so lucky as to have "steel biro" in your pocket. Prepare for the worst, not the best.


-------

Look at the thread title.

Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal


Edited by Reiki (08/21/06 05:44 PM)

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#268842 - 08/21/06 03:35 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
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Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
You really don't get it do you? No one here has or is saying anything about "relying" on a pen for self defense. Your living in a dream world where you think your empty hand training alone will take care of all your needs. What your missing, and what those with a large amount of experience beyond you are saying, is that you should train and be able to use what ever is available to you. A pen is only ONE viable and PRACTICLE item that can be used in a self defense situation. You have been told over and over by more than one person here that there is more to using something such as a pen than simply stabbing someone with it. A sturdy pen can be used to increase leverage in a lock and amplify pain compliance techniques. Have you even bothered to look up the kubotan? It's something that is taught in several Shotokan, Shito Ryu and Goju Ryu schools as well as many other systems. Just because itís not taught in your school doesnít mean itís not right or not part of the system. This is where your lack of experience comes in, you don't know what youíre talking about and you don't have a basic understanding of the subject. That's fine and completely understandable with regards to your age and time in training.

You say you can see where we are coming from and that you "understand" but you haven't the slightest clue. It's obvious when you make statements like
Quote:

The karate is at combined martial arts. And Its frigging pointless to go to karate to learn self defence if im gonna be a pusy and use a pen. [censored] improvised weapons


and
Quote:

Well good luck defending yourself with a pen guys, Ill stick with my fists, or a blade of some sort.




Youíre missing the point of this entire thread on more than one level. Firstly your views on the use of improvised weapons are way off cue. Your idea of what an improvised weapon IS leaves a lot to be desired too. Then there is the subject of this thread in particular "Weapon you can carry for self-defense that's legal". You see this is why the pen was brought up to begin with; most knives are NOT legal to carry. Even if the knife you are carrying is legal, unless it is directly related to your occupation, its use would reinforce the assumption that you are carrying it with the intent to use it against someone. Which in many places equals automatic jail time as with most weapons. A pen on the other hand can effectively be used for self defense without causing serious damage to your attacker. Having a pen does not show intent to harm others and is normally viewed as a spontaneous or improvised weapon which is not premeditated.

I'm glad you feel your training will save you in a confrontation but you need to be realistic. Take whatever advantage you can in an attack.

Pay closer attention to the conversation before you start running your trap.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268843 - 08/22/06 07:57 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: Darthmaul]
919security Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/21/06
Posts: 1
Loc: VA, USA
Pepper spray is not able to be shipped to NY or Massachusetts. I had a guy in NY order from my website a pepper spray stunning ring and I had to turn him down. Secondly, stun guns are illegal in NY as well.

------------------

edited because advertising is not allowed in these forums


Edited by Reiki (08/30/06 03:52 PM)

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#268844 - 08/23/06 12:20 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: 919security]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
yup, thats why I just buy mine in New Hampshire. I give them out as Christmas stocking stuffers.

no cop in Massachusetts is going to bust someone for having mace unless they find something ELSE you shouldn't be carrying....like guns, crack or driving with >0.08 blood alcohol or even using it at the drive-up window at mcdonalds when they get your order wrong.

If someone can prevent being raped but gets a $50 slap on the wrist for having it...who comes out on top?

but I hear what you are saying about on-line ordering.

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#268845 - 08/29/06 10:21 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: crablord]
Mandolynn Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 195
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Quote:

look, im gonna give this one last try ok? If you are an average bloke and you are attacked on the street, and you happen to have a pen is your pocket, it means nothing, the pen is useless. If you are a trained martial arts expert, and you are skilled in the use of such weapons then sure, you can disable, or kill someone with that pen, BUT my point is, If you happen to be a traiend martial arts expert, then you wont need the pen, you can just use your hands. And what im also trying to say is that if you are so worried about being mugged or whatnot, you should not be bothered with the tiny advantage of having a biro, and just carry a switchblade or pepperspray around.They are far more effective and intimidating weapons than the plastic pen.




Because a pen would hurt more than just a fist and it is legal to carry, unlike a switchblade which could get you into heaps of legal trouble. Sure a well trained martial artist could take the attacker down, but they could do it more effectively with the pen, and when your life is on the line why would you defend yourself with less than what is available?
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#268846 - 09/30/06 03:01 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's legal [Re: Darthmaul]
aikiuke Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Illinois
I know, I know... this is JUST a movie, but it's still interesting:
pen fight... bourne identity

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#268847 - 10/05/06 06:07 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: laf7773]
paco Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 10
hi laf7773,
i honestly don't believe that, if u were to "swallow" a load of pepper spray that u would still be able to tear someone's head of. i do believe though, that it would probably not stop u from trying to attack that person but it would definetely handicap u and most likely give yr opponent enough time to disappear.

crabloard,

u said u train so u don't have to use a pen. why do u want to carry a switchblade for then? i'd rather like to have a pen than nothing (if i had to choose between a pen and a knife i sure as hell would go for the knife). that a pen can cause significant damage is denfinetely out of question and so is, that a knife is far more effective and impressive than a pen will ever be. but the pen has a couple of advantages over a knife. first it is legal. second as u said, yr opponent will probably laugh his butt off, which gives u the advantage of underestimation. and last but not least: with a pen u will at least be able to write the badass a cheqeue in the hope he will let u off the hook

Ed_morris,

i just love yr statement: "dots the eyes and crosses the tees" i really do!!!


Edited by paco (10/05/06 06:12 AM)

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#268848 - 10/05/06 07:30 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paco]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
not this thread!!! NOT THIS THREAD AGAIN! *runs off screaming
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268849 - 10/05/06 04:11 PM Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

not this thread!!! NOT THIS THREAD AGAIN! *runs off screaming





<Reiki laughs evilly>

just when you thought it was safe to come out the pen thread surfaces yet again...!

Crabby - Have you had a discussion with your instructor yet about doing some weapons training?

Getting back to the topic, maybe we should ask the question of how to make anything and everything into a weapon if necessary.



Looking forward to your constructive ideas folks!
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Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#268850 - 10/05/06 06:50 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: Reiki]
aikiuke Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Illinois
I made a blow gun out of some scotch tape, a paper clip [i also used some staples a couple of times] and some paper, once when i was bored. worked pretty well, but not deadly.

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#268851 - 10/05/06 07:11 PM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paco]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Who said anything about "swallowing" anything? I've had my level one contamination and know exactly how i react to being sprayed, have you? I've been in a situation where i received a direct shot of spray and still managed to take down the assailant, this wasn't in training either. I have very little reaction to pepper spray until decom. Once water is introduced is when i get the burning sensation, sinus problems and difficult vision. I know from experience, do you?

As i said, spray me and i'm taking your head off.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268852 - 10/06/06 01:49 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: Reiki]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Quote:

Crabby - Have you had a discussion with your instructor yet about doing some weapons training?


Yeah well i just got into black patch (dont know if you have that) but im starting general weapons training. Bo staff, sais, nunchucks, sticks, bokken?? (wood sword), tonfas and like mini grim reaper schythe things. Still no improvised weapons yet. (which mind you im not particularly interested in ) so yeah.
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268853 - 10/06/06 03:32 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: laf7773]
paco Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 10
hi laf,
i put the word swallow in quotation marks because i meant with it that u get sprayed, i didn't mean it literally. fortunately i never had to make the experience of getting sprayed. all the reports i saw on that subject were displaying contaminated people in agonizing pain so how come that it didn't work on u???

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#268854 - 10/06/06 06:52 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
ThomsonsPier Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 475
Loc: Reading, UK
Quote:

Still no improvised weapons yet. (which mind you im not particularly interested in )




So why were you on this thread, again? (stir, stir)

My umbrella is fairly sturdy and folds to about a foot long. It would probably be quite good for striking and adding to a lock. As a last resort, of course. I don't want to have to replace another umbrella.

What do you normally carry with you as is? Generally, I have my wallet, keys, phone, a handkerchief and possibly some gloves, headphones, sunglasses (with soft case) and a small usb drive which weighs practically nothing. A couple of those might be good for striking, but I'm at a loss for most of it. Mind you, my weapons training is limited to staff and a minimal quantity of short stick. Any ideas?

Oh, and I occasionally carry a pen.
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ThomsonsPier

War. It's fan-tastic!

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#268855 - 10/06/06 07:26 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: ThomsonsPier]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Yeah those 512 mb usb drives are really formidable weapons This thread makes me want to put my head in a wood chipper.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268856 - 10/06/06 07:42 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
ThomsonsPier Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 475
Loc: Reading, UK
It's a gigabyte drive, I'll have you know.

A wood chipper is too big to carry as a weapon.

There was a thread a while ago regarding the origins of weapons in eastern martial arts (walking stick to staff, rice flail for nunchaku and so forth) which demonstrated the essential idea, I think.

A general knowledge of weapons across the board will familiarise you with objects of all shapes and sizes, thus enabling you to use similar objects as weapons. An umbrella has a similar size and weight distribution to a short stick. A pen is almost identical to the Shaolin iron pen or hand dart, hence its utility. Techniques and methods for using these objects have already been conceived and refined.
_________________________
ThomsonsPier

War. It's fan-tastic!

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#268857 - 10/06/06 10:33 AM Re: Weapon you can carry for self-defence that's l [Re: paco]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

all the reports i saw on that subject were displaying contaminated people in agonizing pain so how come that it didn't work on u???




Because it doesn't have the same effect on everyone, some people aren't affected by it at all while others hit the floor and cry like a baby. For me i only have a little trouble keeping both eyes completely open but still very capable of seeing what is going on and i am still capable of performing my duties. At best the longer you go without decom the more it works on your respiratory system. Thinking everyone is going down or can't see enough to fight just because they got sprayed puts YOU at a disadvantage. My discomfort comes after decom. Thatís when the pain, irritation, sinus trouble and major difficulty keeping my eyes open happens. Even then itís not enough to stop me in my tracks. For me it felt like a real bad sunburn and I had more trouble keeping my eyes open, this lasted for about 45min before it was over. At least till I tried to wash my face again 5 hours later and it started all over again.


Here are some clips of OC certifications very similar to the one we use. The person is sprayed then has to run a course to show they can still defend and attack an assailant in various situations in addition to being able to retain their weapon. As you can see from these clips some deal with the effects of OC much better than others. I've seen guys take shots of spray from at least 4 different people and still take 4 officers to take them down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy-OhfooAM4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tDecMIr76A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr7pGlDDuBM

Maybe you should check out a few more reports before commenting on something you know little or nothing about.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268858 - 10/06/06 04:19 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

Yeah well i just got into black patch (dont know if you have that) but im starting general weapons training. Bo staff, sais, nunchucks, sticks, bokken?? (wood sword), tonfas and like mini grim reaper schythe things. Still no improvised weapons yet. (which mind you im not particularly interested in ) so yeah.




Black patch? is this your version of 1st kyu [one level below Shodan] or is it something else?

Bokken is correct, it is a replica of the katana in wood normally a hardwood like white oak.

It generally goes hand in hand with the jo which is the shorter staff that is approx solar plexus height [varies from Ryu to Ryu]

"mini grim reaper schythe things" these are called Kama.
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Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#268859 - 10/06/06 11:00 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: Reiki]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
ah thats it, kama. Black patch is like extra training. Weapons, acrobatics all that. Plus I get to go to black belt tournaments
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268860 - 10/07/06 01:45 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Acrobatics? In Shotokan?
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268861 - 10/07/06 05:31 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: laf7773]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
backflips and crap.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268862 - 10/07/06 07:27 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
"Cough" mcDOJO "Cough"
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There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

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#268863 - 10/07/06 08:01 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: Chatan1979]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
lol?? I practise backflips and aerials because I will be attending a lot of tournaments soon, and I have to know my stuff theres more than just kata and sparring you know
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268864 - 10/07/06 12:16 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
gymnastics?
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There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

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#268865 - 10/07/06 01:20 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: Chatan1979]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
kind of... like point sparring for fancy moves
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"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268866 - 10/07/06 02:56 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
I hate to tell you this but that sounds more like XMA than anything else. It's fine for others but my personal opinion is it's pointless and has no place near and art like Shotokan.
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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#268867 - 10/07/06 03:40 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: laf7773]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
I agree, XMA is more of a performance art than martial art. Sorry to be off topic.

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#268868 - 10/07/06 10:21 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: Mr_Heretik]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
yeah well its a separate part of training its only a couple hours a week too.
_________________________
"They say the only way to kill a lion is with a rear naked choke, but I'd just kick it in the head"

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#268869 - 10/08/06 02:35 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
gregc618 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Illinois, USA
A Gymnaist???... I thought you said you practiced martial arts??.. What all this "more to" stuff?.. Ohhhh you mean breaking!!.. That aerial stuff is pretty, but taking the time to do all that might get u hurt depending on who you run into one day. I see very few of the aerial XMA ppl that throw a solid/powerful kick after that 540 or whatever. They mostly are hoping to land and be standing up from what I can see.

I kinda think the same thing of those that call themselves doin a weapons demo, and you never see one legitamite technique from them the whole time at it relates to the use of said weapon.
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There can be only one, and its neither of us!

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#268870 - 10/08/06 04:32 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: gregc618]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
Thats because they arent using them as weapons they are using them as props in a dance
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#268871 - 10/09/06 01:45 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: Chatan1979]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
Uhhh.. im not going to do a 540 jumpkick in a real fight am I?? I do the regular shotokan, katas, sparring and other crap. Then on other days I do this, learning weapons, conditioning and more acrobatic moves. Think of it as an upgrade
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#268872 - 10/12/06 06:07 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
aikiuke Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Illinois
"super size me!"

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#268873 - 10/13/06 12:44 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
swseibukan Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 196
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado
Think of it as Gymkata. Did anybody else see that suck a$$ 80's flick.

No it's not an upgrade it's filler for when the run out of or lack real content to teach and heavy on the other crap.
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Southwest Seibukan

Patience my ass Iím going to kill something

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#268874 - 10/13/06 01:15 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: swseibukan]
5353 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 109
Loc: yongstown
th ebest thing to use as a weapon is your brain. always be aware of your surroundings. be prepared, look around, avoid high risk places alone, and when all else fails run to safety like you stole something
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#268875 - 10/13/06 02:16 AM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: crablord]
soulfiremage Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37
I've read this entire thread and found it fun. A lot of fun to read. Congrats to the witty folks here :-).

Crablord, the real point about the pen and improvised weapons is something called imagination combined with knowledge. You may know how to strike with a stick, blade or in various ways with your hand. You may know how to go for various pressure points and hold etc. Being able to turn that knowledge into an effective use of any available object as a means of self defense could save a persons life. Your own or someone elses.

The pen is simply an example. In the real world, many folks might prefer a knife, or a gun. . In the real world you might be grappling with a guy who's got a craft knife, a switchblade or something else. If you can turn what you have on you and around you to your advantage, you can shorten the fight and improve your chances of getting your ass out of there. Ultimately isn't that the ultimate original goal of most martial arts? Get your ass out alive whatever? I mean original goal, today of course you have competitions etc.

I'm nothing like as trained as the vast majority of this board, but I can still work out how to use various random items as some sort of defence or distraction. It's just a way of thinking. Now if you add that to real training and expertise, this way of thinking could be deadly-to your attacker. That's all it is. Can you be flexible enough mentally to deal with any survivable aggressive encounter? Or must you only use your highly trained hands and feet alone every time or dojo approved weapons. Ask your instructor what he thinks of improvising weapons at need. If he knows his stuff, he will say much the same as people here.

XMA looks great, I wouldn't want a 540 in the face and I suspect most experts at XMA would say that it's not meant to be practical self defense. It's fun, looks cool and a great way to have fitness. It's goal isn't making you into a badass fighter. A badass fighter is mentally flexible and fast, able to adapt quickly to changing circumstances and widely experienced in their training-in my naive opinion.

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#268876 - 10/23/06 10:47 PM Re: Everything is a weapon [Re: soulfiremage]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I just read the first post. In my area its legal to carry a steel baton. If I didnt have a gun this would easily be my weapon of choice.
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