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#268434 - 07/01/06 06:06 PM MMA forum combined into JKD?
TimBlack Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
I've just been thinking that MMA is becoming increasingly popular, and I'm sure there's plenty of people who are interested in the training required for multiple arts in one 'style'... And this seems to fit most with the philosophy of JKD... so why not make it the JKD/MMA forum? JKD forum seems pretty quiet at the moment anyway, might revitalise some talking.
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#268435 - 07/01/06 06:45 PM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: TimBlack]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
JKD is in theory pretty much aligned with MMA, but in practice many JKD groups are split on the methodologies they use. Probably better to keep them seperate, in the way that JJJ and BJJ are seperate forums. Similar, but different emphasis.

There is some friction between the "Original JKD" folks and the "Alive JKD" folks.
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#268436 - 07/02/06 11:29 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: MattJ]
TimBlack Offline
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Okies, cool
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#268437 - 07/02/06 12:10 PM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: TimBlack]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
The JKD forum does tend to be quiet. That's primarily because the only thing that most people want to do is talk about Bruce Lee instead of talking about training.

I honestly believe that MMA represents the true embodiment of what Lee was striving for with his JKD.

IMO, there are a few minor differences (mostly semantic issues) between MMA and JKD. Namely, that JKD was always about street fighting and self-defense whereas MMA is not always about that.

JKD is about using no way as way, etc. (utilizing all ways and being bound by none) and thus uses the "vehicle" of MMA as a training tool to develop "flow" between ranges / adaptability. However, JKD isn't (IMO) limited to MMA either. JKD training can include knife and stick fighting, etc.

That being said, you can train knife and sticking within the MMA format so again, it's really an issue of semantics.

But then as Matt said, you have the OJKD crowd who for some very weird reason, doesn't like a lot of grappling, sparring, stick fighting or anything else (such as Brazilian jiu-jitsu) that Bruce Lee did not personally do while he was alive. They're keeping JKD as a "museum piece exhibit" in other words.

I suppose as long as you're going to have that political divide, you have to differentiate between the two halves (unfortunately).

I just personally feel that the OJKD crowd doesn't "get it". They probably feel the same way about me, and they're entitled to their opinion - even if it IS wrong, lol.


-John

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#268438 - 07/04/06 09:46 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
The "classical" JKD people feel that they don't want to expand Bruce's idea in fear that they will lose what their "Idol" created. Ted followed that view. Dan however, continued to expand, and was very successful.

Strange though, as BL said it himself that JKD will continue to expand. I like the JKD Concept but I'm not so into FMA, as it has become such a trend for JKD to integrate FMA into it. Some places even put "Authentic Filipino Martial Arts such as Kali, Escrima, Jeet Kune Do".

I'm not against FMA but I liked when JKD was Chinese/French (Wing Chun and Savate), and not so Filipino/Brazilian(FMA and BJJ). It's more like a flavor, it depends on you.

The most important aspect though of JKD which people constantly forget is "To Train". Bah, screw politics, if you can't punch properly then get out of the court room and start training dammit!

-Taison out
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#268439 - 07/04/06 10:29 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
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Loc: North Carolina
It does depend on the indivual and personal preference. JKD individuals should be testable however, particularly when obtaining rank within the various member organizations.

This is not directed at you Taison so please bear that in mind...

The way I look at JKD is that its a process and not a product. It's a process of developing an adaptive, functional individual as well as someone with demonstrable and easily observable skill.

Who CARES how you got to that point, what "techniques" you use, or if you can also fight with weapons. Functionality and adaptability (three ranges of skill) are the bottom line.

Using ALL ways being bound by none (meaning, using FMA and jiu-jitsu and not being bound to Wing Chun, fencing, etc) is the cornerstone of JKD philosophy.

Now I understand that people have preferences, but how does adding any amount of A "FUNCTIONAL" training paradigm, weaken the integrity of JKD? As of yet, not one person has been able to clearly demonstrate or explain to me where it would.

Sorry about the rant. I just wanted to throw my opinion in the loop here.



-John

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#268440 - 07/17/06 06:41 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: JKogas]
trevek Offline
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Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Why not have a 'Bruce Lee' forum for the timewatsters... errm, kiddies... errm, serious martial artists who are also fans of Bruce Lee and a joint MMA/JKD forum.

Oooh, I'm gonna get flamed!
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#268441 - 07/17/06 06:58 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: trevek]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
We COULD create one thread on that forum called; "The Bruce Lee Thread".

ANYTHING about Bruce Lee would go there and not anywhere else. That thread would probably be a thousand pages long. The average age of posters would probably be about 15.


-John

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#268442 - 07/18/06 12:03 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Thanks for the insight,

I agree. People are so wasted with this "I got FMA, BJJ in my JKD", they totally forget to use "everything and anything".

Agreed, people should train more, talk less.

Quote:

ANYTHING about Bruce Lee would go there and not anywhere else. That thread would probably be a thousand pages long. The average age of posters would probably be about 15.



Agreed. Any mod upto the job?

-Taison out
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#268443 - 10/26/06 04:38 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: JKogas]
billyg Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 8
Hello John. I have been observing the input from different forums that cover JKD for some time now. I think the way you have discussed training methods is more or less in line with ideology stated by Bruce Lee.
I think if Bruce Lee were still alive today then he would have constantly adjusted his training methods to incorporate techniques that have been proven to work and to discredit techniques that either wouldn’t work or are still being taught and would leave a person in danger.
As I am a female I feel my interests are in self defence but I would still like to develop other related skills.
I look forward to reading your input on the forums.


Billy_G

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#268444 - 10/26/06 07:10 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: billyg]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina

billyg wrote
Quote:


I think if Bruce Lee were still alive today then he would have constantly adjusted his training methods to incorporate techniques that have been proven to work and to discredit techniques that either wouldn’t work or are still being taught and would leave a person in danger.





Hi Billy, welcome to the forums.


I believe that Lee was in a constant state of evolution within his training. His three major eras (from early to later; Seattle, Oakland, LA) were dramatically different from each other. Lee’s martial arts research WAS continually evolving and adjusting. This is because Lee wasn’t interested in learning and developing another “style” so much as he was interested in continually honing the training process. He was dropping much of the wing chun aspects as time went on and was clearly headed toward adding a lot more grappling aspects.

Lee states himself that the most important thing is to “research your own experience (the “experience of sparring/working against resisting partners and opponents), absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and to add what is specifically your own (to develop YOUR own unique game based upon your own unique abilities).

The ONLY way to know if you can effectively pull off your techniques for real is to SPAR them. It is within that context that you learn to absorb what is useful and learn what to reject as useless. I mean, how would you come by that info any other way.

Thus at the end of the day, if something didn’t work it was discarded. And MANY things were being discarded and added all the time (wing chun in favor of more grappling techniques, being researched and developed by Larry Hartsell, among others.

Hartsell has even said that Lee was definitely heading toward what we now understand as MMA style training. Why wouldn’t he have? It only makes sense not to compartmentalize fighting.


Quote:


As I am a female I feel my interests are in self defence but I would still like to develop other related skills.
I look forward to reading your input on the forums.






Thanks! Your interested in self-defense is completely understandable. That’s why we all did this stuff pretty much.

One thing I have come to understand over the years is that self-defense isn’t something you learn by rote. In other words, you don’t learn a dozen moves, practiced in a static manner. Self-defense should be a “by-product” of one’s training and not something merely memorized and regurgitated. Any training done in that manner won’t likely be of as much worth. You’d probably be better off with nothing but natural instincts.

One thing about JKD is the simplicity and “daily decrease” found within the discipline. Paul Vunak has a method called the “RAT” that serves as a sort of “game plan” for self-defense. It isn’t meant to replace long term training. It’s meant to supplement it. You may want to look into that if you can find a PFS (Progressive Fighting Systems) group near you.


Thanks again and take care!


-John

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#268445 - 11/01/06 05:27 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: TimBlack]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
If we were voing I would say comine the two forums. That way people in the JKD forum wold not only talk about Bruce Lee but actual concept and different ways of practicing in short MMA. And people in MMA would stop talking about sports only but include actual mma street fighting.
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#268446 - 11/01/06 05:56 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: TeK9]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Thats a valid point, but people can do that now on those forums by starting specific topics toward those lines of thought.



-John

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#268447 - 11/01/06 09:21 AM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: JKogas]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I personally would prefer them separate.
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#268448 - 11/01/06 01:41 PM Re: MMA forum combined into JKD? [Re: Dereck]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
While the two are often intertwined, Id rather see them seperate as well.
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