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#268109 - 06/30/06 08:45 PM Becoming a doorman
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I'm currently in the process of getting licensed to start doing some doorwork.
What I intend to do when I start is write up a doormans diary on here. This week I have been on a course to get the certificates I need to get a S.I.A.* Door Supervisors badge and will serve as a starter.
I'd been looking for a course run at a reasonable price though it seemed to me that most people were charging an absolute fortune for this course, around 300 quid and upwards, but then I come across a place that does it for 174 quid and I bite their hand off.

Monday morning and there I am sitting in a classroom for the first time in 20 years. The instructor for the course is a lovely fella by the name of Chike. He starts off by giving out a wad of paper, 97 pages to be precise and explains that this is the material we need to learn in the next two and a half days ready for an exam on it the afternoon of the third day, Wednesday.

The 97 pages are broken up into "modules" (what ever happened to sections??? ). There are 11 of them and are titled thus...

1)Roles and responsibilities
2)Behavioural standard
3)Equality and diversity
4)Civil and criminal law
5)Arrest
6)Licensing law
7)Drug awareness
8)Searching
9)Health and safety at work
10)Emergency procedures
11)Recording incidents and crime scene preservation

That first day we covered 1 to 5 and seemed to fly by at the speed of setting concrete. Tuesday was no better and it was all I could do to stop myself falling off my chair and sinking into a coma. We got up to number 9 which just left the last two on Wednesday morning before the exam in the afternoon.
Here is what I thought of each section. Oops sorry, "Module"!!!
1,2 and 3 imho absolutely of no use whatsoever. 4,5,6,7 and 8 were quite interesting and probably the most relevant to the job. 9 and 10 just stated the obvious and 11 was mostly covered in earlier sections.

Wednesday pm rolls around or limps around if truth be told and we settle down to do the exam.
35 questions, multiple choice format, in 1 hour.
The pass mark was 77% which is about 28 out of the 35 that you have to get right to pass, which I thought was high in comparison to the fact that you can achieve A-levels with a lower percentage than that.
Still it wasn't overly difficult and with a bit of common sense I think a lot of people could pass it without the training beforehand.
I think I scraped it, but I won't know for a couple of weeks.

Thursday, yay!! Last day and another handout comes our way.
20 pages this time and 2 modules.

1)Avoiding risk
2)Defusing conflict

Far too passive for my liking. It seemed to me that they were teaching that if it goes off you should get away from the trouble and get help. Surely the job is to be there and be prepared to sort out the trouble, on your own, physically, if necessary. Also, I didn't agree with some of the body language they tried to teach. Keeping your hands down and with the palms showing when someone is being threatening and abusive is inviting a right hander if you ask me.
It was still interesting and it might work with some people, but if you are relying on it and can't back it up physically, you are going to be in a world of trouble.
And there lies the problem. Anyone can do this course and to be honest, there were a couple of people on this course that clearly had no idea of how to handle themselves. They weren't even big built or anything. So what are they going to do when the sh!t hits the fan?

The exam in the afternoon was exactly the same format as the first.
This time I sailed through it and am pretty sure I got 35/35.

All in all I think that this course is a course designed for the shiny, clean, politically correct brigade. What they are trying to create here is a situation where doormen are no more than professional witnesses.
All the way through the course it was reiterated that doormen have no special powers(in law). So why do they have to be licensed and pay a fortune for it and have to waste there time on stupid courses that have been designed by someone that probably couldn't spell "door"!!!
Even licensed taxi drivers get to use the bus lanes.

Yet another example of society pretending that sh!t doesn't happen I guess.
I think there is going to be a whole new breed of doormen with a nasty surprise coming their way.

So there you go. My next installment will probably take a while because it now will take a few weeks to go through all the processing

*SIA-Security Industry Authority
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268110 - 06/30/06 09:24 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Very interesting, McSensei.

In America (as far as I know), there are no requirements to being a doorman, with the exception of being huge or especially kick-ass. Oddly enough, I was a security guard (unarmed, heh) for a while when I was around 20 or 21. I had to take a course, pass a test, and be vetted by the state police (I still have the card, LOL).

But being a doorman here seems to involve mostly just showing the interviewer that you can get out of a headlock.

Ironic, considering that most of the security jobs I had I could have slept through with little notice, compared to the much more active life of the average doorman.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#268111 - 07/01/06 06:44 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: MattJ]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Great stuff McSensei!

I think the softly-softly approach of the material is so that they can keep themselves (the school issuing the license) right. Suppose if they said "When it all kicks off, get stuck in, Vale Tudo Style!!!" then they could be liable if someone they licensed but someone in hospital (i.e. it could be construed that they were advising you to attack someone).

Most police officers will tell you that the law doesn't cover a lot of the situations they encounter. They have to know the rules, use their own judgement, and make a decision.

I think the course is designed so that you can keep yourself right in the eyes of the law.

Did you cover any First Aid at all? The certificate you get in Northern Ireland requires you to know some first aid.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#268112 - 07/01/06 11:49 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Great observation mate... exactly the same as my own experience. The job is always learnt doing it mate... now you've cut through the all the red tape of the training you now got to go through the mess of actually applying and getting your badge. Atleast another 6 weeks for that mate. Then its all plain sailing from there on in mate. Thanks for sharing!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268113 - 07/01/06 09:10 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
How times change.

This was my training for the job.

Step 1. become best friend and training partner of the son of the landlord of a local pub.

Step 2. Anytime trouble kicks off in pub, be eager to wade in and help kick the fu*k out of anyone giving the staff/regulars grief.

Step 3. Have the Landlord find out his pub is under police surveilance as some of his punters are known drug dealers, and that he must get rid of them if he is to keep his licence.

Step 4. Have Landlord put his son and his lunatic best mate on the job, enforcing a dress code and telling undesirables that they are just that, and are barred.

Step 5. Pay the dynamic duo 20 quid a night in hand, and as much beer as they can drink during, and after, working hours.

Happy years from what I can remember

Get through the course, then learn how to do the job properly. Just like driving- get through the 'look-signal-manouver' crud, then donut out of the test centre
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268114 - 07/03/06 03:30 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: MattJ]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
My uncle is a doorman at the palace hotel in San Francisco. He said most of his money comes from nights, and his weekends are tuesday and wendesday because friday-sunday= best tip days.

I don't remember him ever mentioning needing a license to be a doorman though...
_________________________
YAY pepto bismol! No... not... kryptonite

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#268115 - 07/04/06 10:58 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Cord you'd love it where I'm working at the moment. Southends busiest bar/pre-club club. Full to the brim with young ladies (McSensei will back me up if he can remember what the last bar was like on Sunday night! ), an absolute top door team who have absolute no objections about getting stuck in, a manager who takes us all out for a drink before we start, a manager who turns a blind eye when a well deserved slap is dealt out (in fact he usually gives you a drink for it!), a manager who supplies numerous drinks throughout the night (3 out of the past 4 weeks I ain't been in a fit state to drive home)... oh heck, it's a venue with lot's of women, quite a few punch ups and an absolute diamond of a manager! Absolute pleasure turning up for work every saturday!!!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268116 - 07/04/06 12:35 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Happy Days Seaside towns are the best in every way. something about the atmosphere and the interaction between locals and tourists that make them unpredictable yet as comfy as an old sweater all at the same time.

there are times i miss the job, but then every time I get caught hard in sparring, I feel kind of glad these older bones look after property instead of pi$$heads these days.

Still nothing better than administering behavioural correction to those who truly need it however
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268117 - 07/12/06 11:09 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: pepto_bismol]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Pepto,

Your Uncles profession is vastly different from what Cord and Gavin do.

Your Uncle probably works for tips opening the door, helping old ladies with packages and hailing cabs. I would think that there is probably no special training or licensure involved. Just a friendly personality and the ability to brave a cold windy evening.

Cord and Gavin are what we would refer to as Bouncers.

Page
_________________________
Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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#268118 - 07/16/06 08:47 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Here's a little tip (no pun intended) Take those 97 pages with you, and in a time of need, roll it up into a baton...you know what to do


Edited by ButterflyPalm (07/16/06 08:50 AM)
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#268119 - 07/17/06 09:09 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Glockmeister Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
Quote:

Cord you'd love it where I'm working at the moment. Southends busiest bar/pre-club club. Full to the brim with young ladies (McSensei will back me up if he can remember what the last bar was like on Sunday night! ), an absolute top door team who have absolute no objections about getting stuck in, a manager who takes us all out for a drink before we start, a manager who turns a blind eye when a well deserved slap is dealt out (in fact he usually gives you a drink for it!), a manager who supplies numerous drinks throughout the night (3 out of the past 4 weeks I ain't been in a fit state to drive home)... oh heck, it's a venue with lot's of women, quite a few punch ups and an absolute diamond of a manager! Absolute pleasure turning up for work every saturday!!!




Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen

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#268120 - 07/17/06 09:24 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Glockmeister]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen




Personally I see it as old school Doorwork and a damn fun way of earning money. Our customers know the score and when they don't tow the line they are dealt with appropriately. On the whole we have a great time with customers, doorstaff and barstaff. Everyone feels relaxed and protected without the liberal do-gooder nonsense that usually stops people from being able to do there job! Having a few drinks and a pro-active attitude to trouble makers makes the job a lot less stressful and easier!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268121 - 07/17/06 11:24 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
couldnt agree more Gav. If doorwork were all about negotiation and empathy, then you would have social workers moonlighting and terrifying drunken idiots with their reasoning and empathy.

Be polite, be professional,and be ready. I always thought of myself as a mirror that reflected the behaviour of the customer. Want to have a laugh and a good time, I couldn't be nicer. Want to start something, be aware that I would finish it.

Decent customers appreciate a safe environment. A-holes dont appreciate getting a kicking. A heavy handed approach, used judiciously, keeps things good for everyone IMO.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268122 - 07/18/06 06:48 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I think Glockmeister was probably commenting on the drinking whilst working to be fair on reflection. Just to clarify when I said "not fit to drive" I mean that I was over the legal limit to drive so didn't. The UK limit is about 1 pint, which is taken up with the drink with the team at the end of the night to discuss the nights events and chill out a bit before going home. However during the night its quite common to have a few drinks brought for you by customers. So just for the record I wasn't talking about getting wasted, just probably being above the legal drink drive limit.


Edited by Gavin (07/18/06 09:13 AM)
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268123 - 07/18/06 08:40 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"...I think globbetrotter..."

Gav, that would be Glockmeister.
Hmmm, what were you saying about drinking???
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268124 - 07/18/06 09:17 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Edited and corrected!

Quote:

Hmmm, what were you saying about drinking???




Think it makes you chuck your guts up dunnit mate? Well atleast that's what happend when I went out on the lash with this bald bloke the other week! Did I forget to mention that here... the mighty McSensei's drinking prowess???
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268125 - 07/18/06 10:10 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
McStella by any chance?
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268126 - 07/18/06 10:42 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

McStella by any chance?




Numerous pints of McGuiness, a lot of straight McJack D, one McWaveform elbow once we got back to mine (you'd have thought he would've learned not ask stuff when I'm sloshed by now wouldn't you. He was curled up in a fetal position for about a mintue!) and finally a McStella after all that. All finished with a major McHangover in the morning and me and my mate Dave forcing him to get up and train at 8 in the morning. As out of order as it sounds he was actually sleeping in my training room, so it seemed only fair that he get up and do a pad workout and sparring!

Gav

PS. My mate Dave is the former European and Commonwealth Kick boxing Champion... a spar with him is a great way to get rid of a hang over! Wouldn't ya say Tone!!!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268127 - 07/18/06 06:32 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"PS. My mate Dave is the former European and Commonwealth Kick boxing Champion... a spar with him is a great way to get rid of a hang over! Wouldn't ya say Tone!!!"

If receiving a hiding that numbs a thumping brain is your cure then you are welcome to it mate.
In future I think I'll stick to the sleeping for 36 hours method.
Oh and btw Cord, they made me drink all that. Honest!
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268128 - 07/18/06 09:41 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Glockmeister Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
Gavin, Wasn;t trying to sound like a liberl "do gooder" however, maybe things are different in the UK than here. And again, the US is a big place so I can't speak for the sntire country, but a lot of places around here strictly allow no drinking during or before a security staff memeber begins his or her shift. God forbid soemthing happens and you find yourself in court. If it is determined one of themn was under the influence, the owner of the club would be doomed.Giving someone a drink when someone slaps someone because they are acting like a$$holes can be a good thing, it can also encourage people to get physical when it is not warrented. I have seen "bouncers" punch patrons when there was no need whatsoever for it except to stroke that persons ego and show how "manly" they are.Unfortunately, while there are some very good doormen out there, there are quite a few who take the job for no other reason than for their egos. Often it shows. There was a club in my local town (it's been closed down now) where doormen have been successfully charged with assault and the owners successfully sued in court due to the cavalier attitude you have described.
Nothing against you, I just think that the man who owns that establishment is taking an awful risk by allowing his staff to drink before or during work ( I assume you are referring to alcahol)Then again. Maybe it is different over there.

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#268129 - 07/19/06 05:35 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Glockmeister]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Glock, to be honest it is very much a rarity that you are allowed to find a venue where your allowed to drink. In the old days it was considered part of the job. Nowadays it is considered a no no in most clubs. For this reason alone in means that we most definately don't abuse the situation and coz we like both the venue and the owner so much we go out of our way to make sure everything runs smoothly. So its kind of a greyish area, shouldn't really do it, but we do it quietly. And I considered it highly impolite to refuse a drink from someone!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268130 - 07/19/06 09:09 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Glockmeister Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
Quote:

And I considered it highly impolite to refuse a drink from someone!




I know what you mean.

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#268131 - 07/20/06 06:13 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Glockmeister]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England


Back on topic...

Does anyone remember me saying this...

"Still it wasn't overly difficult and with a bit of common sense I think a lot of people could pass it without the training beforehand.
I think I scraped it, but I won't know for a couple of weeks."



Well, me and my big mouth!

Apparently I failed one of the units and have to take a re-sit.
For the pleasure of doing this I have to cough up another 80 quid.
Makes me wonder if this is just a scam to get more money out of people. It would explain the high passmark.
Either that or I'm just thick.

So I'm booked back in for next week and it hasn't made the slightest difference to how long it will take to get my badge.
I only just received an e-mail from the SIA acknowledging the fact that I have asked for an application pack and that one has been ordered for me.

All this just to bounce people on their heads?
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268132 - 07/21/06 02:54 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Welcome to the world of government regulation.

Now lets go through it one more time.

1. If an abusive/aggressive patron refuses to leave the premises do you:

a)let it go, apologise for disturbing his night

b) explain clearly that his only options are leave or face police intervention

c) Give him just enough to keep his attention on you while your colleagues come in from the rear,then all bundle him fast, and dump him hard enough outside to loosen the teeth in his head.

_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268133 - 07/21/06 11:16 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
D) Taser him until he wets himself.

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#268134 - 07/21/06 01:32 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: JoelM]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"Welcome to the world of government regulation.

Now lets go through it one more time.

1. If an abusive/aggressive patron refuses to leave the premises do you:

a)let it go, apologise for disturbing his night

b) explain clearly that his only options are leave or face police intervention

c) Give him just enough to keep his attention on you while your colleagues come in from the rear,then all bundle him fast, and dump him hard enough outside to loosen the teeth in his head."

The SIA would have me answering B. This would bring about hysterical laughter from the antagonist knowing full well that in this country unless you are committing a driving offence the police are just not interested.
This would lead to the next answer which would end up being A.

In reality my answer would be C.

Or Joels option D.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268135 - 07/25/06 01:39 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Buzz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 34
Loc: London, England
Interesting posts, McSensei.

I've a theory which may explain what happened to you over in Southend. I believe that some of the pressure points that Gav is so keen to show us every time increase ones vulnerability to alcohol - I've experienced much the same phenomenon and can't think of another convincing explanation.

As for Gav putting McSensei down with a waveform elbow when they were both drunk - I think it speaks volumes for Gav's training that he still has a powerful technique when his control is slightly impaired.
_________________________
2nd Annual Fighting Arts UK Get Together Will YOU be there? Oh dear, doesn't look like it.

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#268136 - 07/26/06 05:54 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Buzz]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"As for Gav putting McSensei down with a waveform elbow when they were both drunk - I think it speaks volumes for Gav's training that he still has a powerful technique when his control is slightly impaired."

Or I could have been falling down anyway and Gav just helped along the inevitable!

Back to the story...

Nice and early Monday morning I'm back in London to re-do the course.
Chike is there smiling broadly as I walk in and then he proceeds to tell me that because my score was only just outside of the score needed for a pass, I don't have to re-sit the course. Just turn up at 12 noon on Wednesday to do the exam.
Great! Why he couldn't have told me that sooner I don't know.

Fast forward to the Wednesday...

..I walk in to be welcomed by the ever grinning Chike only to find that he is running behind with this weeks students and therefore the exam would be set for 3pm.
This included a break for lunch and Chike went off to track down the exam papers.
3 o'clock comes and goes..no Chike. We've got his number so we give him a ring. He is still at the office trying to track down the exam papers, that still haen't arrived, but he had been promised them by 4 pm.
This deadline goes the way of the last and we're on the phone again.
They will definately be here by 5:15pm and with him only being a few minutes away we would be underway at 5:30pm.

So that time floats by too and we are wondering what on earth is going on. We phone yet again only this time he doesn't answer.
Finally he shows up at 6:15 with no papers explaining that the courier had misplaced them.

That is where I'm at folks. I've got to go back tomorrow morning at 9 O'clock when hopefully the exam papers will have arrived.

To be continued...
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268137 - 07/27/06 12:05 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Well, you were never told this would be easy...were you?
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#268138 - 07/27/06 12:36 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Kazama Offline
mystical mountain hermit

Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 105
I thought by doorman he meant fixing doors...I feel pretty dumb right now.

I hear Bas Rutten was a bouncer too. Lot's of oppurtinities to practice on drunk guys
_________________________
Do or not do. There is no "try". -Yoda

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#268139 - 07/27/06 11:56 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Kazama]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

I thought by doorman he meant fixing doors...I feel pretty dumb right now.





As you should.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#268140 - 08/14/06 07:46 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: JoelM]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Can a guy make a decent living in the US doing dorr work/bouncing?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#268141 - 08/15/06 05:15 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Stormdragon]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Not sure on that one but what I do know is there are a lot of ufc style fighters/good none ufc fighters getting in to fights in pubs and clubs.

So unless the doorstaff keep training life will get harder.


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#268142 - 08/15/06 12:33 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Find a Mentor stick close learn as much as fast and as hard as you can. Know there are gray areas let the Mentor point them out. Be part of the Team, not a show off.

Don't be brave or accept individual challenges remember team work is what brings you home. Don't believe what the girls say or people say about how tuff you are or brave you are. Its a job not your premier keep a level head. It ain't all about you its Team Work. Remember Team work is what brings you home. Never take sides just clear the distrubance outside. Never think I can handle this situatuon myself, unless you have to then use tact. Call for back up anyway, think Team work.

Never trully trust anybody outside of your Team/Group. Male or Female. They could secretly have it out for ya or get paid to set you up.

Learn to Work as a Team. Everything else will come to you. In time, You will know if its you cup of Tea.

My two cent. Good luck!!
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#268143 - 08/15/06 06:57 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Neko456]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Hey htinks for the advice and everything, it's much appreciated.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#268144 - 08/20/06 01:41 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Bump. so whats the news McSensei? Has Chike got his act together yet?
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268145 - 08/20/06 05:30 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Cord,

I knew that this process was going to take some time, but I didn't realise it meant geological time.

Anyway, we went back on the Thursday and did the exam and since then I have been waiting for my certificate. I have now been notified I have to collect from the local post office. Something to do with it being too big for my letterbox.
In the meantime I have received my application pack that is sitting around just waiting for the certificate number to be written on it and it can then be sent for processing by the SIA.
This is supposed to then take up to another 6 weeks before I finally receive my badge.

Exciting huh???

BTW because of us taking the Wednesday exam on Thursday morning the guys on that weeks course would be sitting their second exam at about 9pm that night!!!


Edited by McSensei (08/20/06 05:34 PM)
_________________________
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#268146 - 08/20/06 06:36 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Wow. Nothing like the government regulation of an activity to add a real level or organisation, credibility, and air of professionalism to it is there?

Personaly, I think the regulation should have started and ended with security employees having to agree to full criminal history checks and the submission of confirmed personal details (current address, full name, 'passport' style photo), all of which should be passed to the council/police via the employer, and it be there responsibility to update that list quarterly.

The whole notion of someone with zero real world tools to do the job being able to fork out £300 for a certificate so they can call themselves a 'qualified doorman' is a nightmare waiting to happen IMO.

Thats not having a pop at you, you have the mindset and background to make a good go of it, but there will be some right muppets just itching to be able to flash that ID card like James bloody Bond

Reminds me of all those Close protection/bodyguard qualification courses that came out a few years ago

You can see the Sultan of Brunei looking over applicants cant you:

'Ex SAS- nope, Retired special branch- nope, veteran Paratrooper- nope, OOOH LOOK!!! THIS ONE'S GOT AN NVQ IN BODYGUARDING!!!! and he was a team leader at McDonalds SIGN HIM UP!!!!'
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268147 - 08/20/06 09:05 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"You can see the Sultan of Brunei looking over applicants cant you:

'Ex SAS- nope, Retired special branch- nope, veteran Paratrooper- nope, OOOH LOOK!!! THIS ONE'S GOT AN NVQ IN BODYGUARDING!!!! and he was a team leader at McDonalds SIGN HIM UP!!!!'"



"The whole notion of someone with zero real world tools to do the job being able to fork out £300 for a certificate so they can call themselves a 'qualified doorman' is a nightmare waiting to happen IMO.

Thats not having a pop at you, you have the mindset and background to make a good go of it, but there will be some right muppets just itching to be able to flash that ID card like James bloody Bond "

...more-



The worrying thing, is that you are right.

_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268148 - 10/05/06 06:10 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
19/9/06, or for our American friends that write it all hickledy-pickledy 09/19/06, and I receive a letter telling me that they are returning all my docs (passport, bank statements, etc.) that I sent them ages ago and that I will be waiting a further 6 weeks for a decision.
Apparently after 4 weeks I will get my copy of the CRB* disclosure. If they had asked I could have sent them the one that I already have and saved loads of time but oh no, the grinding wheels of British bureaucracy have to turn in their own single paced fashion.

Anyway, hopefully in 6 weeks I will finally get my badge and be able to start work.

I knew from the outset that it was going to be a slow process, but this is like pulling teeth.

*criminal records bureau.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268149 - 10/29/06 11:58 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Black_Knight Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 17
Loc: York, Uk
Did you get your badge then mate? Enjoying it?

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#268150 - 10/29/06 05:54 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Black_Knight]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Not yet. Still waiting.

*taps fingers and looks at watch, err calender, err light from distant celestial bodies*
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268151 - 10/30/06 01:31 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Black_Knight Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 17
Loc: York, Uk
The whole SIA thing is a real joke, when they brought that in, thats when I gave up my licence.

Might as well have a namebadge and a cap on nowadays, seems like more and more places want customer service on the door not security.

Hope you get a decent door anyway mate.

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#268152 - 11/02/06 08:31 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
srv Offline
The OTHER forum Doctor

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 139
Loc: SA, Australia
Interesting post. Lots of comments about the amount of force a bouncer should be able to use with difficult patrons. I don't know what the legal ramifications of those incidents in the US or UK are. Just brings to mind for me an incident here in Australia a couple of years ago.

A prominent ex cricketer who was coaching one of the state cricket teams was out with the players after a game getting stuck into a few beers. According to bar staff was being quite difficult for much of the night. There's a lot of conjecture from different sides about what actually happened but the short story is that there was a scuffle outside the bar with one of the bouncers who is a fairly experience boxer. Anyway one punch from the bouncer to the ex cricketer and the guys hits the ground head hits the pavement - serious brain injury and within hours is dead. Bouncer is charged for manslaughter.

My opinion - this was a tragic case but very bad luck - how many punches in bar / street fights occur without this sort of consequence. However - just some food for thought in this debate.

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#268153 - 11/02/06 09:44 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: srv]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Staggering how slow the process is now over in the UK! When I got my state police security clearance card, it took a couple of days, if I remember correctly. Of course this was 16+ years ago.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#268154 - 11/03/06 08:31 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: MattJ]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I think that the time it takes is just a sign of the times we now find ourselves in.
I phoned the SIA yesterday to find out how much longer it would take and after getting a recorded message the first 6 times I finally got through to talk to a person.
I was told that a licensing officer had to go through every application one by one to vet them and that because I'd received my copy of my CRB disclosure, it would not be more than a month to finally get approval.
So much beauracracy to get through just sends efficiency out of the window. If I had known that it would take this long I probably wouldn't have bothered.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268155 - 11/03/06 04:07 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
rageace Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 114
Loc: England
Was your training worth the money? It sounds as though you have gone through alot of hastle due to the good ol' English paperwork system.
If doorman work in very dangerous areas can they wear stab proof vests under their shirt? Can doorman carry weapons? I have noticed that the security guards in my local shopping centre seem to be carrying metal batton on their belt...
Hope you get your license and badge soon
Rageace
_________________________
The biggest fight you face, is with yourself when you stop out the door

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#268156 - 11/17/06 03:09 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: rageace]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi Tony,

Cant believe how long your registration is taking you would've thought that the SIA could got their act together by now!

James.
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#268157 - 11/17/06 06:34 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: jamesd]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Hi James, good to see you're still about mate. Cool website by the way.

I have received my badge and am able to go bouncing..
I have been in contact with Gavins dad, John and he has put me on standby. I have also been in contact with another security firm that I was put onto by another friend and am just waiting for the first job to come up. So hopefully the "Doormans diary" can soon begin properly. After all it's only taken five months.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268158 - 11/18/06 06:00 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi Tony,

I'm glad you're finally working and I cant believe it took 5 months! What a joke! The SIA are very quick to take your money but not so quick delivering the goods!! Thanks for your comments regarding the website its at a very early stage but hopefully I'll be able to get some more content together soon, are you attending combat arena tomorrow? see you soon mate,

James.
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#268159 - 11/18/06 07:19 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: jamesd]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
I took my years in the Police, working on the doors and training in the MA, and started teaching the qualifications acceptable to the SIA for the various security licenses in the UK.

I have run 100s of security training courses, unfortunately McSensei your experiences with the SIA are all too common.

Also found that the training is quite varied, especially the conflict management, really does need to be taught by a “real world “instructor.

BTW you should have been given a proper course book, what is the qualification you have? Bii, City & Guilds or NCFE?
I charge £149+vat for 4 days, doesn’t seem to me you had a good deal. But at least you have your license.

Give this site a look:- www.workingthedoors.co.uk

Their forum is down at the moment but, when its up, just read the SIA/training horror stories, I also enjoy the real world violent encounters they relate, very different to some of the cyber wanabees, that are all to often seen on MA forums…

Regards

Mark

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#268160 - 11/27/06 05:58 PM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: mark]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Friday night, 7;00PM - 12;30AM

The Bridge House Inn, Upminster.

So here it is at last. My first night on the door.
Absolutely nothing happened, apart from escorting two fellas out the door because they were too drunk to be served anymore.
No arguments or harsh words, they accepted what they were told and left peacefully.
This I am led to believe is what the job is like most of the time, which is ok with me, but it was extremely boring.
I was sure that tomorrow night was going to be more exciting as I was booked to work at one of Gavins old doors in Southend. The Sun Rooms, where the Combat Arena meets are held.
I started at 9;30PM and was on till about 2;30AM and guess what....nothing happened!!!
Still it was a more interesting night as the guy I was working with just would not stop talking, as opposed to the guy I was with on Friday, who for the first couple of hours I thought was a mute!!!
Anyway, Gavins dad John showed up and that broke the boredom a bit as well, as we chatted for a while and later Gavin came round and we posed for a couple of pictures that I'm sure he will post up soon.

So that's it, two nights down and absolutely no trouble whatsoever.
I know that I should want the job to stay this way, but you can't help hoping for a little excitement.

Careful what you wish for and all that...


Edited by McSensei (01/15/07 05:58 PM)
_________________________
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#268161 - 11/28/06 03:45 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Welcome to the glamarous world of doorwork!

Can't find the cable to get the pictures off!

The job can get so bloody boring at times that you actually "will it" to geek off. My Dad always says you should be careful what you wish for! Wait til your first proper shout... the buzz is something quite special when you run to your first. And if you pull it off well you'll be floating on cloud nine!

Anway you looked very dapper and seemed to take to the job like a duck to water!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268162 - 11/28/06 09:22 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Congrats on finally getting through all the details to get the door job. I did industrial/building security for a while, mostly midnight shift. Very boring.

_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#268163 - 11/28/06 05:52 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Ah yes, the strange contradiction inherent in the job. If you do it well, you get what you should be delighted with- a nice uneventful night, but there will always be a bit of you that wants another story for your collection . Comes with having a nature that does not shy from confrontation.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268164 - 11/29/06 03:23 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
How true is that! How many people have you spoke to who say "You don't do anything... you just stand there!" Especially Management who fail to see that "nothing happening" means we're doing our job properly, they see it is "why have I got doormen when I haven't got trouble?" How quickly do the scum move in when the doormen move out?

Security is like insurance, waste of money when you don't need it, a life saver when you needed and a total diaster if you need it and ain't got it!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#268165 - 11/29/06 04:02 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Gavin]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
--"Especially Management who fail to see that "nothing happening" means we're doing our job properly----

That is so very true!!

mark

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#268166 - 11/30/06 08:50 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: mark]
Midnightcrawler Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England
Quote:

--"Especially Management who fail to see that "nothing happening" means we're doing our job properly----

That is so very true!!

mark




Mark & Gavin,

The problem isn't so much the management 'on site', but rather the management at 'head office' and in particular the company accountant or 'financial controller'.

These persons tend to think in terms of 'bottom line profit', and if an activity is not perceived as contributing to that profit then it is seen as having no or little value. For example, wet sales can be measured by square foot of floor space, customer head count on any given night, measured as per head of staff on duty, or in some instances I've known it to be measured by the length of each bar in the building. The same applies to dry sales, bar snacks of all the different varieties, and even cigarette sales. IE, why is this machine producing more revenue than the other? Can we move the machine to improve performance?

The same could be said of the 'entertainment' provided, does one band or DJ pull in more punters than another? If so why and can we beg, steal, borrow or poach that band or DJ from the club they are currently working in? You might even get the same questions asked from head office about glass collectors or waitresses of you have any.

The reason H/O look at it this way is because in each instance all things are measurable, except? The contribution of the door staff.

Stay safe on the door.

MC.
_________________________
God only knows; Really.

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#268167 - 12/02/06 11:39 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Midnightcrawler]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Friday, 1st December.
The William Camden, Bexleyheath. 7;00PM - Midnight.

Arrived at the pub to be told that all that is required of me for the night is checking IDs so that they have no underage drinkers.
After a couple of hours the manager came out to us and complained that there were some lads in that he thought were about 12. The guy I was working with said they must have come in before we started and out of curiosity we decided to have a look at them to see how old they looked. Okay, they looked fairly young, but no younger than half the people in the pub. The ironic thing is that the manager had still been serving them for the past few hours and then has the audacity to complain to us that we had let them in!!!!
Oh well, c'est la vie.
Half past ten rolls around and we shut the doors as no-one is supposed to be allowed in after that time. Virtually every single person we turned away was then allowed in by the manager. Talk about being undermined. Still, it's his pub and I guess he can do what he likes, but I think it sends out the wrong message, being inconsistent and all that.
About half past elevenand we get a call to one of the bars to eject two customers that are getting rather aggressive towards one another. Round we go and escort one guy out and as I go back in for the other I see the manager is serving him a drink. Once again I tell myself it's his pub and he can do what he wants, but personally I felt that they both should have had to leave.

So that was it for my 3rd night on the door. I'm back at the Sun Rooms in Southend again tonight so watch this space...
_________________________
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#268168 - 12/02/06 11:51 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Sounds like you needed to escort the manager out the door, too. "Right guv, had about enough of you flip-flopping. Out the door you go."

_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#268169 - 12/02/06 11:54 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: MattJ]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Sorely tempted, Matt. Very sorely tempted.
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268170 - 12/09/06 01:05 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Sat 3rd December. The Sun Rooms, Southend.

Another quiet night with no real trouble. Had to see out one guy who could barely stand but that was about it.

One point in the evening added a little interest when a few guys went running past us and around the corner. A minute later about 6 doorman from the club opposite came along and asked if we'd seen some lads running by. Apparently they had attacked another member of their door team and were out for some "street justice" if you know what I mean. At this time John King was with us chatting so we all joined the others and went looking for the gang of lads that had scooted around the corner.
So there we were about 10 of us all looking for this gang when we see them all getting into a van. There was no point then going after them as they would have gone by the time we reached the van. However, it sent out a message to them that if you mess with one you mess with all. From the look on their faces I don't think they'll be back in a hurry.

So that was about it for the night.

Fri 8th December, The William Camden, Bexleyheath.

Once again, another quiet night with only one incident worth mentioning.
A guy who was getting more drunk and loud as the evening went on was approached by the manager and I went and stood close by in case I was needed. After standing there for a few minutes the manager came over to me and asked if me and the other doorman could go wait in the other bar as the guy was getting irate at me standing and "intimidating" him, while they talked.

Feck me, I thought it was my job to be on hand when p!$$ed up idiots start getting out of hand.
Any way, the manager ended up talking to the bloke for nearly an hour and then gave him a lift home.
I don't know what others think of that, but personally I would have had him out of there a lot sooner than that and certainly wouldn't reward the blokes rude behaviour by giving him a lift home.
Still I keep telling myself it's his pub etc etc..

_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#268171 - 12/09/06 04:02 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Once again, another quiet night with only one incident worth mentioning.
A guy who was getting more drunk and loud as the evening went on was approached by the manager and I went and stood close by in case I was needed. After standing there for a few minutes the manager came over to me and asked if me and the other doorman could go wait in the other bar as the guy was getting irate at me standing and "intimidating" him, while they talked.

Feck me, I thought it was my job to be on hand when p!$$ed up idiots start getting out of hand.
Any way, the manager ended up talking to the bloke for nearly an hour and then gave him a lift home.
I don't know what others think of that, but personally I would have had him out of there a lot sooner than that and certainly wouldn't reward the blokes rude behaviour by giving him a lift home.
Still I keep telling myself it's his pub etc etc..






Tough one to call. At the end of the day, your job is to act on behalf of the licensee, providing it does not put you in unreasonable danger, or on the wrong side of the law.
Some places you will enforce a dress code- 'no jeans or trainers' for example. The wearing of such clothing is neither offensive nor illegal, but if its not right for the 'image' of the premises as decided by the gaffer, so be it. You dont have to agree, just facilitate the wishes of the guy who pays the bills.

In this instance, the owner asked you to leave him to it, so removing responsibility from you, and he reached a peaceful conclusion. Good PR for him/his club, no hassle to you and your team. Thats a happy ending.

man you are just itching for a barney aren't you!?

Dont worry buddy, it will find you soon enough, you dont need to go looking
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#268172 - 12/12/06 12:20 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Gavin]
Buzz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 34
Loc: London, England
Quote:

... buzz is something quite special ...




Just been reading this thread for the first time in a while and couldn't help quoting Gav (a little out of context, I'll admit).

Makes for very interesting reading. Keep it up, McSensei.
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#268173 - 12/12/06 04:56 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Cord wrote..

"Tough one to call. At the end of the day, your job is to act on behalf of the licensee, providing it does not put you in unreasonable danger, or on the wrong side of the law.
Some places you will enforce a dress code- 'no jeans or trainers' for example. The wearing of such clothing is neither offensive nor illegal, but if its not right for the 'image' of the premises as decided by the gaffer, so be it. You dont have to agree, just facilitate the wishes of the guy who pays the bills.

In this instance, the owner asked you to leave him to it, so removing responsibility from you, and he reached a peaceful conclusion. Good PR for him/his club, no hassle to you and your team. Thats a happy ending."

Admittedly I was in two minds about it myself. On the one hand a peaceful conclusion and on the other I felt that it was my job. Hey I can talk to people too.
I just felt like a bit of window dressing that's all.

"man you are just itching for a barney aren't you!? "

Lol. I think there's a little bit of that in everyone that does this job. Still, I've got Xmas eve to work yet. In my experience that particular night was always a bit of a blood bath. Though that may have more to do with where I grew up.

Sat 9th Dec, The Sun Rooms

Up to 10PM at this venue it is free to enter, after that time it is 3 quid. Any one that leaves before that time and comes back within a reasonable time is allowed in free.
So a guy turns up about 11 o'clock and we tell him he has to pay. He says that he was in earlier and to prove it points to his jacket on a chair just inside the door.
"Nice try buddy," I tell him, "but I have been here since 9.30 and I didn't see you leave."
After a few minutes my fellow doorman relents and says he can go in without paying with a word about the amount of time that has elapsed from leaving to coming back and not to push his luck in future.
We think that's the end of it but then start to notice that the guy is spending his time staring daggers at us through the window. He also pulls the manager to one side every time we let someone in without paying. (Guests of the manager, DJs guests and off-duty staff etc)
"Right," 'B' my fellow doorman says, "better to deal with this earlier rather than later!" and off we go into the club and stand about 2 feet away from the guy and stare at him. All of a sudden he loses interest and turns back to his drink.
"That settles that then." says B and we go back outside. 30 seconds later the guy puts on his coat and leaves without giving us a glance.

Not much more happened, just the odd turn away at the door, however the club opposite were understaffed and at 2.30AM had a big kick off which needed the attention of 2 police vanloads and about 6 police cars.
I guess that's what you get with a thousand or so revellers and only 8 doormen.
I know I'd like a little more excitement but that was pandemonium.
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#268174 - 12/13/06 04:47 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

however the club opposite were understaffed and at 2.30AM had a big kick off which needed the attention of 2 police vanloads and about 6 police cars.
I guess that's what you get with a thousand or so revellers and only 8 doormen.





No that's what happens when you pay peanuts for your doorman and get monkeys instead. Out of respect for the couple of semi-decent guys that work there I won't mention the name of the club. The reason why they were understaffed was because the week before a couple of the wannabe-doorman-when-they-grow-up-bully-boy-baskets got their behinds handed to them by a couple of 18 years and didn't have the bottle to turn up for work the week after.

That venue has always been a boiling pot and when I worked there the only time the police turned up was to try and cart off the doormen. My good friend Dave used to be the Head Doormen and we had such a strong team there we never got anything that we couldn't handle. Afterall it is a club full of 18-25 year olds... a team of 8 should be able to deal with, let alone the 10-12 they usually run with. At Varsity we have 750 people in and thus far have managed with a team of 5 without any major problems *touches wood*.

A weak Door team is the soul reason that the "club opposite" gets so much trouble.

As for the Sunnies door policy... knocking back idiot DJ's become some of a sport for us when we worked there! Always a great way of deflating a trumped up ego!
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#268175 - 12/20/06 05:55 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Friday, 15th Dec. Private company christmas party.

What the hell does a Xmas party need doormen for?

Weeellll, to stand around eating copious amounts of steak from the barbecue they were having. (I know, I know. A BBQ in December . Still it kept us warm)
Also to check peoples invitations, stop people stealing alcohol from what could loosely be called the bar and to watch the behaviour of the partygoers.

So not much happens until about 12;30 when a prank someone plays goes wrong and all of a sudden we have an argument cum scuffle to deal with.
Most of it being caused by a girlfriend of one of the two guys arguing as she kept trying to attack one guy and stab him with her cigarette. So I knock the cig out of her hand and push her back. Well ok, I tried to push her back, but no lie, she was about 20 stone, That's 280lbs. I did manage to stop her forward progress though but not before she had given a few kicks to the shins of my colleague for the night, S. Now S is a huge bloke and didn't take too kindly to the kicking and gave her a huge shove backwards at which point I managed to steer her off to the side and calm her down a bit. All this time the blokes who were originally arguing had split up and now the boyfriend wanted to have a go at S. I'd passed the girl on to one of the company bosses to talk to and went and dealt with the boyfriend who was still bad mouthing . Just needed a bit of a talking to and that was that.

One thing I have noticed over the last week is that people are getting cockier and more arrogant as xmas approaches. I can see why they call it the silly season.

Sat, 16 Dec. 18th Birthday party.

Babysitting!

What a complete waste of time. Who hires bouncers for a birthday party??? Totally bored all night then I went home.
Exciting huh?
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#268176 - 12/21/06 06:31 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Glamarous world of Doorwork mate!

This weekend will be the one to watch mate. Especially tomorrow. Last working day before Christmas. Everyone goes out straight from work. People who don't drink all year round decide to make up for it in one night. Tomorrow night you'll probably end up earning your money mate. Watch your back and have a safe one matey!
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#268177 - 12/23/06 02:41 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Gavin]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Well, I will be helping the father in law in the family pub tomorrow night- nothing official or licensed of course (or paid come to think of it- Doh!! ) But it will be nice to dip my toe back in the water once again.

To those doing it 'for real' in busy town centres and clubs, may you and your teams all have nothing but injury free fun- and a few christmas kisses from the many attractive ladies that will doubtless be out and about this silly season.
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#268178 - 12/23/06 07:54 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
oldman Offline
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#268179 - 12/29/06 11:00 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: oldman]
Ted_Karate Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 38
Loc: UK England Suffolk
Unbelievable video Oldman, how much punishment do stupid people require before they walk away? The guy gets beaten by 3 guys and then beaten again after he stands outside screaming abuse.
Good luck to all people getting paid to deal with stupid people on a regular basis.

Ted
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#268180 - 12/30/06 07:20 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Ted_Karate]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Nice find oldman,

I bet the doorman got arrested, charged with ABH, and had to pay the poor misunderstood customer compensation...

Anyone know where and when it happened?

Mark

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#268181 - 12/30/06 07:43 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: mark]
Gavin Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
The idiots filming it mention Kings Cross so it's either there or some where in London. Was very suprised the old bill didn't lift the Doorman there and then. Some of the London Boroughs are extremely strict on the amount of force you can use. Some Uptown Doormen I've spoken to say it's strict bordering on ridiculous.
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#268182 - 12/30/06 07:54 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Gavin]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Very true Gavin,

In truth the doorman did act illegally, he opened the door and was clearly up for it, he then used more force than was necessary, BTW where were his collegues..?

They guy with the bottle also clearly had "issues" he was allowed to use it, with no door staff stopping him, who knew where it was going? very scarey.

That is VERY hipocritcal of me, I know, and i do belive in natural justice. in that the customer did in fact deserve what he got, its as you say Gavin, police are so damn strict its almost a loose/loose situation for the door staff.

mark

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#268183 - 12/31/06 05:37 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: mark]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
This video is everywhere at the moment. Nice skills from the last doorman who came out. Shame he missed with the kick, could've ended it with that.
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#268184 - 01/01/07 11:45 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
The last doorman showed the value of a good fast jab, nice to see teh str33t footage that was not all windmills and handbags.

As for the moron who stood posturing outside wanting another go- the old saying is 'be carefull what you wish for- you might just get it.' Naughty boy got a spanking
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#268185 - 01/04/07 04:11 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Hey Cord, if you covered a door over xmas how'd it go mate?
C'mon, spill the beans. Anything juicy to add to this thread I'm sure we'd all like to hear, because....

The William Camden, 22/23/24 December.

Nothing to report really. Mostly people were well behaved (though drunk) and the only guy I had to throw out was some kid that got caught helping himself on Xmas eve. He started to try to explain his side of the story to which I replied that he was telling the wrong person and that I wasn't really interested. The asst. manager had asked for him to be removed and that was it as far as I was concerned. Then a barman started to chime in and I told him to shut up and that if he wanted to do my job then he should go get himself a badge. The only other thing of interest was that on Xmas eve the manager had requested 5 doorman as he had sold tickets for the night and we were expecting 450 (approx) people in. In the end there was just the usual 2 of us as the others had cried off for one reason or another.
At the end of the night the usually wishy-washy manager congratulated us on a job well done as the previous 7 years had all gone pear shaped on Xmas eve.
Guess that could show that sometimes the overwhelming presence of doormen can actually cause people to kick off.

29/30 December, same place.

Again nothing to report. After chattting to the guys that covered new years eve I learnt that it all went smoothly as well. So all in all a very peaceful Xmas.
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#268186 - 01/04/07 04:42 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Great news McSensei, glad you are safe and well.

My Christmas was tip top, and incident free.

The set up: Good family run pub in a really $hitty area of cambridge. Around one corner you have a homeless hostel (not friendly tramps- dealers, prostitutes and other n'er do wells), down the other end is Cambridge's roughest housing estate (which is much rougher than Camb council's 'public image' of cambridge would have you believe). In the general area are a couple of other pubs that are not only not well managed or controlled, but one actually encourages the local traveller community to come in. (All PC protests will fall on the deaf ears of experience with this one I am afraid).

The result: My In-laws have a tried and tested plan.
1. front door locked. Sign on it 'regulars and their guests only- use back door)
2. Back door locked, but with either Father in law, or me, or both of us sat on the inside, able to unlock and give entry to welcome faces, or tell strangers 'not tonight' through the glass.
3. Anyone unwelcome who kicks the door, or wont move on, door gets opened they get told to leave. If they dont, they get moved on. Merry Christmas

This is the same set up for all special occasions, and big sporting events.

My Dad in law is 6'7" 20-21 stones, and my god he can ruck when he needs to (and sometimes when he probably doesn't need to ), and i am his trusted sidekick . One guy we had out a few years ago called us 'Lanky and Wanky', and was very puzzled when we almost let go of him through laughing so hard

Its a very controlled environment, and no one even kicked up a stink when being turned away at any point through the Holidays.

Suited us, we just relaxed and chugged chasers- we needed the energy
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#268187 - 01/05/07 10:56 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
Khayman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 724
Loc: Wiltshire, UK
Its good to hear door stories again, I retired from the door a while ago but its great to read them. I work in education now so looking back im not sure which was the easier life lol

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#268188 - 01/06/07 02:23 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Khayman]
mark Offline
sword of magnamity

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: uk
Sure is Khayman.

I often think about posting stories from our years on the doors and in the Plod, but I think its all about now, rather than living in former glory.

I would have enjoyed working with Cord, Gavin and Mcsensi.
Certainly would have felt safe when I hid behind them

Mark

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#268189 - 01/08/07 05:43 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: mark]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"I would have enjoyed working with Cord, Gavin and Mcsensi."

I'd have thought we'd have spent too much time arguing over pre-emptive striking.

Anyway, back to the exciting William Camden.

Fri, Sat &Sun 5th, 6th & 7th January.

I did an extra shift this week to see if there was anything more interesting happening on Sundays. There wasn't!

Once again all quiet, just the usual telling offs...

No you can't take your drink outside, no you can't come back in after 10:30, take your glasses off the pool table etc.

More soon.
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#268190 - 01/08/07 07:02 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
nice post Tony, keep safe matey !

And everyone else dont buy into his VTG act, he's a puussy cat in the dojo...............LOL

(Jim ducks.....)
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#268191 - 01/14/07 06:15 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: shoshinkan]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
12th & 13th January, the William Camden.

Friday was busy, but no trouble. Saturday was quiet, but..

As I arrived my fellow doorman 'M' was escorting out a guy who was barred from the pub but had sneaked in. We then had to listen to the guy go on about how unfair the ban was and that it was his local..
Eventually he goes away and we settle in for another night of ennui. However, 10 minutes later and the manager comes out to tell us that 3 blokes were about to be refused any more drinks as they were getting noisy and out of hand. I go in to see who he's talking about just as they start getting boistrous again so I don't wait for them to be refused service and I ask them to leave.
No problem with that. They admitted they were getting too loud and drank the last of their drinks and left quietly.
Half an hour later and one of them comes back (I'll call him 'G') and asks if he can just come in to collect his jacket. We tell him no he can't, but if he tells us where it was and what it looks like one of us would go and get it for him. For some reason this doesn't sink in with G and he tries to push past me. I step across his path and gently nudge him back out of the door. He then starts saying that his friends are in the pub and could we get them. To cut a long story short we, that is myself, M, a barman and the manager then spend the next 20 minutes doing a merry dance going back and forth into the bar looking for a coat (that wasn't there) and his friends (that left with him earlier).
Now, when he'd left the first time he was pi$$ed, but not right out there. This time he was different. Things just weren't registering. Anyway, he has now become sufficient enough of a pain for the manager to call the old bill. In the meantime we have locked the door so he can't keep walking back in. So what does he do next? He shows us his backside at which we all fall about laughing. We watch him as he meanders around the car park out front, up the road and back down again. Then he disappears. So we think he's given up and gone home when we get a shout from the manager that he has climbed in through one of the windows and is in the bar. M and I do a pincer movement on him and he dashes between us toward the front door. We follow him out into the lobby and instead of going out the door he dives into the other bar. We follow him in and it flashed through my head to just neck him and drag him out. However, seeing as he had been a pain, but not really hurt anyone I thought that might be a bit extreme so I grab an arm and swung him round for M to grab his other arm and we frogmarch him out of the pub. Once again he lurks about outside the door and then I see the reason that he's off his head. As he goes to pull a cigarette out of it's packet, he also pulls out a wrap. No idea what was in it, probably coke or maybe speed. Who knows, who cares? It certainly explained his behaviour.

A couple of minutes later and the police turn up. A PC and a WPC. They approach the guy, talk to him for a bit then search him. When they find the wrap they arrest him and just as the PC was going to put the cuffs on G bolted. Or at least tried to. It was great to watch, the PC tackled him and down he went, like a lion bringing down a wildebeast. They seemed to be struggling though and I could see they could not get the cuffs on him so I asked if they would like some help. "Oh yes please" the WPC said. "I can't get his arm out from under him and he's got something in his hand."
I knelt down and slid my hand down his arm and under his body, grabbed his wrist and yanked his arm out and bent it up his back into the cuffs. They then stood him up and put him in the van and after that, all was quiet for the rest of the night.

Exciting huh?
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#268192 - 01/15/07 04:31 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Nice easy and fun one to pop your cherry on! Glad you had a safe weekend mate.

Had fun on Saturday. We got a shout from the DJ over the mic shouting "ALL DOORMAN TO THE END OF THE BAR!" a sure sign that it's a big'un. I was on the front door with a mate so we were the last on scene to see our other colleagues knee deep in about a dozen girls going hell for leather on each other. It actually tooks us one and half trips to get them all out. I was walking the last girl out and it looked it was all calming down. Then from out of nowhere a girl from the other group (we couldn't actually tell who was fighting who) that I thought was a mate of hers threw and landed an absolute peach of a right hand on the girl I was walking out and then a dozen sets of cat claws were drawn again outside. Once we calmed everything calmed down and we went back inside there were actually clumps of hair on the floor and one bunch had skin on it!

The girlies are worse than blokes!
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#268193 - 01/15/07 09:34 AM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"The girlies are worse than blokes!"

Ain't that the truth. Fair play to you Gav for going and getting stuck in. Personally, when women fight, I'd rather be in philadelphia.


Edited by McSensei (01/15/07 06:00 PM)
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#268194 - 01/16/07 11:46 AM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Personally, when women fight, I'd rather be in philadelphia.




I tend to push them in mud and then grab a camcorder

glad all is well with both of you. McSensei, good job keeping your patience with that guy- its not easy, but that is not only a nice one to break you in, but it also gives you 'one in the bank' with a local copper. Never hurts to make new friends
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#268195 - 01/25/07 05:57 PM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
19th,20th and 21st Jan. the William Camden.

Zip.
Nothing out of the ordinary at all. Although I do have a new colleague to work with. He has been a doorman 3 years, working mainly in Peckham, Sth London. He has been stabbed four times and shot once and has the scars to prove it.
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#268196 - 01/25/07 06:05 PM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: McSensei]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
William Camden, Bexleyheath?

''quite liked this place. Wouldn't choose to go out drinking in Bexleyheath generally if I didn't know people there, but was very pleasantly surprised. Door staff have a sense of humour, unlike the dehumanised humourless types you often get ''

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/49/4911/William_Camden/Bexleyheath
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#268197 - 01/25/07 06:19 PM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: grumbleweed]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England

"the doormen are all ex-criminals"


Fortunately I didn't work there when the above comment was posted, but yep! That's the right William Camden.
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#268198 - 01/26/07 06:20 AM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Site's got the two venues I work at too:

Varsity

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/27/27762/Varsity/Southend_on_Sea

Hogs Head

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/51/5140/Hogs_Head/Southend_on_Sea

Quote:

really friendly bar and door staff.


Pffft... me friendly!!!!
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#268199 - 01/26/07 01:06 PM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: Gavin]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Pffft... me friendly!!!!




'Awww look at the 'ickle feller, he's a teeny tiny security pixie'



'Next'



Edited by Cord (01/26/07 01:08 PM)
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#268200 - 01/31/07 06:54 PM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
26, 27 & 28th Jan. Guess where?

Karaoke night. S, the same guy that I covered the firms Xmas bash with, is my colleague tonight.
I like this guy. Totally no nonsense. Halfway through the night the girl that's running the karaoke comes over and tells us there is a bloke bothering people that are singing.
S is off and over there like a flash and I'm left watching from the door. S spoke to the guy and then just stood over there for a while. After about 10 minutes the guy that had apparently been shouting abuse at the singers, (I couldn't really blame him- most were terrible) came out followed by S. The manager came out and told us not to let him back in. I somehow don't think S was going to anyway. The guy hangs around out front for a while, leaning in the window occasionally to get people to buy him a drink, so I shut the window and told him to go home and that is what he did.
Everything else went smoothly.

Saturday was live band night. 4 of them!!
D is my colleague for the night and he has been on the door less time than me, but he seemed decent enough.
As people are filing in and paying there money to the manager, who is on the door with us to start with, but only for the coin, a chap comes up that has been barred from the pub. The manager recognises him and tells him that he's not coming in and they start to argue. Well actually, and fair play to the manager here, the guy starts to argue and the manager responded every time with, "No, you're barred!"
Eventually the manager leans over to me and says, "Get rid of him, willya?"
So I move toward the fellow and he starts to back out of the door. By this time, the barred chaps brother had arrived and was also telling him he should just go.
Chappie eventually decides that he's going to talk to the manager one last time. The response was the same and chappies bro starts to move him back out the door at which point he looks at me and says, "You're lucky I'm in a good mood and I don't want to hurt you!"

I couldn't help smiling at that comment and he started to bang on about me not taking him seriously and all that cr4p.
He still left though.
After that it was all pretty smooth, except to say that a little later the chappies brother came up to me and said about his sibling..."You'd better watch it though, he is mental!"


Sunday night was

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#268201 - 02/01/07 02:41 PM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: Gavin]
Buzz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 34
Loc: London, England
"... really friendly door staff", Gav?

How often do you
work there?

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#268202 - 02/02/07 10:54 AM Re: A Doorman's Diary. [Re: McSensei]
Buzz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 34
Loc: London, England
Quote:

I do have a new colleague to work with. He has been a doorman working mainly in Peckham, Sth London. He has been stabbed four times and shot once and has the scars to prove it.




And then on his second night ...
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#268203 - 02/13/07 12:30 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Gavin]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884

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#268204 - 02/13/07 02:41 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: oldman]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Good film. The revenge attack is a genuine threat. i have had 1 friend have a machete stuck in the back of his head, another been knifed in the neck, and on one particularly colourful new years eve, someone return after being kicked out, and drive their car at the two guys on the door. They dived out the way and the car drove through the doors and got wedged half in the foyer of the club- all that in just a small welsh town.
i have never experienced such extreme repurcussions directly, though 5 years after moving from my home town, i visited and went out on a friday night to catch up with old friends, and got punched in the face out of the blue by someone who I had apparently kicked out of a pub some 7 years earlier I didn't recognise him, so it was quite flattering I had made a lasting impression On the other hand, If he had had a knife, I would now be dead.
Its still a good job though, if you get into it with your eyes open.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#268205 - 02/14/07 07:34 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I love this the short. Geoff is apparently in the process of making a full length feature based on his book "Watch my Back" and if this is anything to go by it'll be a cracker.

Everything about this film is right. The banter between the guys, the stand off out the front, the lovely peaceful quiet pint at the end of the shift (there is something magical about the calm quiet of a club once the chaos of the thumping music and flashing lights has gone) and then the walk to the car afterwards. Geoff just protrays this so brilliantly.

He is so right about the end of the shift being the most dangerous. We usually walk to the cars together (safety in numbers). I've gotta to say that I take a sort of perverse enjoyment out of the walk to the car. I slip into a state of absolute awareness in which I could tell you everything that is happening around me. Also anything that happens then is personal, you're no longer a Doormen you're a civvie and the rules of the game change. Anything they do to you is pre-meditated and means you really can use reasonable force. After being on a leash all night the walk to the car really is like being allowed to run free in the park. Its probably very hard to understand unless you've done it.

Also every time you make it home is like a little victory, especially if someone has told you they're coming back to "'Ave ya!". Going through your front door, sitting down with a beer or a cuppa winding down in front of the Xbox or a DVD with your ears still ringing from the music is like saying "F*ck you mug...I survived!". Its that sort of challange that can become quite addictive.

I've had a few situations after work, the most serious involved about 8 or so guys armed with bottles, sticks and a machette. All three of us managed to get our hands on something to use and got through it by clearly showing the group that we were more willing to use our tools than they were theirs. That was a very scary situation.

The job is full of experiences that most people never have. Some very positive and some very negative. The whole package is very addictive at times and soul destroying at others.

Times are changing though and the way the newer generation of Doormen are being told to do the job is far too PC for me...hence why I'm winding down my career now. But I wouldn't have changed the experience for the world.
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#268206 - 02/14/07 11:43 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Gavin]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

every time you make it home is like a little victory, especially if someone has told you they're coming back to "'Ave ya!". Going through your front door, sitting down with a beer or a cuppa winding down in front of the Xbox or a DVD with your ears still ringing from the music is like saying "F*ck you mug...I survived!". Its that sort of challange that can become quite addictive.




I enjoyed the 24/7 'us and them' mentality that occurs in the job. Back at home when i was working, we only socialised in the pub we worked at. The other pubs were full of people were not welcome there, and had got that message direct from us. Sort of made for an 'Assault on Precinct 13' atmosphere at times .
The other thing is the real friendship involved in the job. That is what comes through in the short movie the most. These are people who will literaly stand shoulder to shoulder with you when your life is on the line. You cant measure the value of trust like that.
I have never been good at keeping contact with people, I do not feel the need for regular exchange of pleasantries to maintain a friendship- If I am your friend, then I am your friend for life, and I dont care how long its been since you phoned or stopped by; so when after 5 years of no contact, I got my a$$ in gear to contact an old door colleague to ask him to my wedding, his first words on the phone were 'Hey Dave, whats the problem- how can I help?'
He assumed I was in trouble, and was ready to drop everything cold after 5 years to come and get my back.
I think only the military could create similar bonds

Quote:

Times are changing though and the way the newer generation of Doormen are being told to do the job is far too PC for me...hence why I'm winding down my career now. But I wouldn't have changed the experience for the world.




Amen to the first sentiment, and as for winding down your career, if it feels the right time to do so, then it is. i look back with good memories of it, i would hate to have stayed too long, and lived to see it as a negative experience.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#268207 - 02/14/07 04:08 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
2nd 3rd 4th Feb. Usual place.

Typical weekend without too much happening. Although on the Saturday there was a point in the evening, while I was talking to someone about my refusing them entry, when raised voices were heard in one of the bars.
My colleague 'D' went to see what all the fuss was about. After I finished with the guy at the front door I went to find D. I found him with his arm around one guy restraining him and keeping another guy at bay with his other hand. A friend of the second guy convinced his mate to leave and that was that.

9th 10th Feb.

Friday was quiet despite the karaoke, but I did get the chance to come to the aid of a couple of British Transport Police that were chasing a gang of hoodies on Saturday.
About 15 or so youths ran out of the station and past the pub. I spotted them and opened the door to have a better look at what was happening. As I did so a lad swerved to avoid the opening door and slipped over. As he was scrambling to his feet I saw the Police officers coming towards the pub and realised they were after this lad. Just as he got to his feet I grabbed him and locked him up and passed him over to the officers.
Another one in the bank with the old bill.

That's about it for now. Tune in next week...
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#268208 - 02/17/07 12:59 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: oldman]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

http://www.geoffthompson.com/siteNewsDetails.asp?varID=12

A short film.




"After the battle, tighten your helmet strings."

Brutal video, but that should be required viewing for anyone that ponders the security biz.
_________________________
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#268209 - 02/17/07 08:01 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: MattJ]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
"After the battle, tighten your helmet strings."

How true is that line.
Funnily enough, when I finished work tonight I went down to a pub where my daughter was having her 21st birthday party.
As I approached the door, about 5 blokes came flying out courtesy of the doormen. Right bang into my lap. My adrenaline sky-rocketed. Fortunately, the fellas that had been ejected, although shouting a variety of colourful insults at the doormen took no notice of me as I made my way through them. My point being that I keep that thought in my head from the moment I leave work to the time I get home and on this occasion, although I had the obligatory adrenaline dump, I still kept my head level enough to assess the danger.

Damn good advice.
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#268210 - 02/26/07 05:16 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
16th and 17th Feb.

Friday night went by quite peacefully until fairly late on when one of the barman saw someone break one of the pool cues and decided to challenge the person over it, instead of coming to us. The manager had seen this going on and managed to extricate his barman from the situation and then came and told us. D and myself went over to where the guys were now arguing with some other regulars and basically what was a build up to a row kind of dissipated as we approached. Funny how peoples beer muscles disappear when a real challenge comes along.
Anyway, the guys decided to leave before being told to and as they left some of the regulars went out as well, including one chap that D had caught getting very threatening and basically carried him out with his feet a couple of inches off the floor.
No sooner had they got out of the car park and a fight broke out in the middle of the road. Me and D just stood in the foyer and pi$$ed ourselves laughing at the idiots and their windmilling punches.
Eventually the old bill came along and everyone dispersed.

Saturday was quiet all night except for the bit of excitement I mentioned at my daughters birthday party.

23rd, 24th and 25th Feb.

Friday was karaoke night again and not a spot of trouble.
Saturday was live music night with 2 bands playing and although we had to eject two people it was nothing out of the ordinary.
A couple of things happened though that amused me.
A bunch of kids came up to the door and asked if they could come in. They looked young so I asked for some ID.
"But we're here for the gig." they said.
"Aaaaaand?" I replied. "It's not a cafe you know. You still need to be over 18"
The look of consternation was priceless.

A bit later another bunch of kids approached the pub and as before I asked for their ID.
One lad gave me his driving licence. I looked at it and it said his birthday was August 1989.
I stared at it for ages as I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
"You're only 17," I said.
"Err, yeah. Okay don't worry about it." he replied and left.

Are some people stupid or what?

Sunday night was dead as usual.

Anyone else got any interesting door stories? Surely Gavin, Cord, Myself and the late lamented Mark are not the only people to work the doors on this forum?
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#268211 - 02/28/07 06:44 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
ken harding Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 721
Loc: UK
Yup mate....you are the last three.............there are no more, the rest of us just have a quiet beer at home. as we are now too for that sort of thing.
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Heijo Shin

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#268212 - 03/07/07 05:36 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: ken harding]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Friday 2nd March.

4 hours 50 minutes of boredom.

Then

Two guys start fighting about 10 feet from me. I jumped between them cutting down with my left arm across theirs to separate them and grabbed one around the waist and carried him to the other side of the bar area while D grabbed the other guy and launched him out the door. My guy, who had realised he wasn't having much luck resisting me agreed to walk out the door calmly. Which he then did. Of course then the fight started up again in the car park, but at least then it was outside and became the problem of someone else.
It didn't last very long outside as both combatants friends had now gone out to break it up.

Saturday 3rd March.

Carried on where Friday had left off.
No sooner had I arrived and there was someone in need of removal. Apparently he had threatened various members of the bar staff.
D went to deal with it and I waited in the lobby. As D approached the door from the bar, escorting some skinny little wretch, a big brute of a guy appeared and blocked Ds path. I sidled up behind and slightly to the side of the brute as he stood there mouthing off and threatening D.
These few moments were interesting to see from my position as I watched the guy step his right leg back and start shaking his arm that was now hidden from D. He started repeating himself and his sentences got shorter. All the classic signs that he was about to launch.
Then he looked over his shoulder to see I was there, just inches from him. At that point his demeanour changed completely. I like to think that he realised that he had been out manouvered and capitulated any idea of throwing the punch that he had built himself up for. I don't want to sound cocky, but if he had so much as twitched towards D he was going to find himself flying backwards head first into the wall behind us.
Anyway, at this point he then turned on his mate, the skinny kid and grabbed him round the throat and marched him out, doing our job for us.
Well, he had to take it out on someone, didn't he.

After that it was fairly quiet and Sunday was its usual quiet night.
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#268213 - 03/12/07 05:22 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
9th, 10th and 11th March.



Not even a telling off.
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#268214 - 05/02/07 06:10 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
gregbell Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 1
Im a american teaching Bjj/mma in london Im also looking to get a doorman job is there anywhere I can work without getting the badge and how much can I expect to make a night thanks. Anybody know of any places hiring I'll be in london on the 10th I fight in Cagefightseries on may12th. Thanks Greg.
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#268215 - 05/02/07 12:25 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: gregbell]
NewJitsu Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK
Hi McSensei

Great stuff reading your diary. Hope your keeping everything to turn them into a bestseller one day!

Do you mind me asking - I've read your MA details on your profile but could you give any further info on the hows and whys you became a doorman? I'm just curious about the whole life. What age you decided to train, how much your MA background played in being accepted as a doorman, how much of the real training is done 'on the door' rather than the dojo...? That kind of thing. It seems like one big, scary job to me (half glamorous / half spare pair of underpants please) and I've been wondering if the only real way to learn RBSD is from being 'thrown in at the deep end', i.e. working the doors.

A lot to ask, but thanks in advance...!!

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#268216 - 05/03/07 10:02 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: gregbell]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Im a american teaching Bjj/mma in london Im also looking to get a doorman job is there anywhere I can work without getting the badge and how much can I expect to make a night thanks.


.

Nope. License is mandatory across the UK now. Rates vary, but expect anywhere between £10-£20 an hour if payed by the venue, plus a good few free drinks after the patrons have gone home.
i have known security teams be paid a percentage of the gate at certain events, but they are usually open air, or privately organised 'raves'.

Without a license, you will not be able to work however. Not only are the fines too great for employers to risk it, but also licensed doorstaff (who have spent a lot of money and time to get their qualification) will not be happy working with someone who has not played by the rules.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#268217 - 05/03/07 05:28 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I'll second what Cord has said about working without a badge. If you look at the early part of my thread you will realise that it costs a fair bit just to get your badge in the first place. With training course costs from about 150 quid up to £400 (depending on where you go) and the badge itself now £245, if you work without one there will be some severe resentment from doorstaff that have paid out. Probably not the best group of guys to pi$$ off.

New Jitsu,
I will get back to you, but I am a little limited in my availability to post at the moment.
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#268218 - 12/23/07 05:41 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
TwizDead Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 28
Quote:


A bit later another bunch of kids approached the pub and as before I asked for their ID.
One lad gave me his driving licence. I looked at it and it said his birthday was August 1989.
I stared at it for ages as I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
"You're only 17," I said.
"Err, yeah. Okay don't worry about it." he replied and left.




To be honest mate, how many bouncers can count? most people see the driving licence n assume your 18...worked a treat for me a few years ago.

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#268219 - 12/23/07 10:52 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: TwizDead]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

To be honest mate, how many bouncers can count?


Just because people are bouncers doesn't mean they're dumb.

I've been in a white collared job for most of my life, working with really high-upstairs people, and some government people and for the very life of me I can't count. I need my calculator if you go beyond 2 zero digits.

As for being a bouncer, I've befriended some at a local club, cheerful guys, just don't get them p!ssed or stir trouble. Another thing I noticed, don't stir trouble thinking they'll back you, they won't.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#268220 - 01/03/08 05:01 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: TwizDead]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Quote:

Quote:


A bit later another bunch of kids approached the pub and as before I asked for their ID.
One lad gave me his driving licence. I looked at it and it said his birthday was August 1989.
I stared at it for ages as I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
"You're only 17," I said.
"Err, yeah. Okay don't worry about it." he replied and left.




To be honest mate, how many bouncers can count? most people see the driving licence n assume your 18...worked a treat for me a few years ago.




You fall into the classic trap my friend and that is one of the advantages that we "Bouncers" have over the punters.
You underestimate us at your peril.
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#268221 - 01/03/08 05:43 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: NewJitsu]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
NewJutsu,

Been a while, but I said I'd answer so I will.

Brief history. Started MA at 15. Started working in bars (as a barman and then manager/steward) at 18 and gradually slid into the trap of making the two things mutually exclusive. Basically spent all my time drinking and not doing any ma at all. Now the places I worked didn't have doormen so it was up to barstaff and decent punters to sort out any trouble. This would be my first unofficial taste of "bouncing."
At about 24 I stopped working in pubs. Now I just spent all my free time drinking in them. Usually to the point of oblivion and got in a fair few scrapes because of it. This is the period of my life where I learnt alot about losing fights.

Then the corny bit happened. My son was born and I decided it was time to straighten up. So I got back into Karate, then JJJ and then I met my erstwhile colleague and Instructor, Gavin and the whole world of doorwork just beckoned from the moment I started training with him.
Plus the fact that I'd just lost one of the contracts from my cleaning co. and I needed the money.

As for MAs helping to be accepted? No.
None of that crap matters. It's all about how you do the job whether you are a fifth dan master or never got off the sofa except to go to work. What does help me get accepted a bit easier than the young new doorman is my age I think.
At 41 I've been around the block a couple of times.

If I was to advise someone to take up something to get them ready for doorwork I would probably recommend Judo rather than a RBSD place, unless it's CombatArena of course. It gets you used to stand up struggling with people that are fully resisting, pretty much what you will be doing on the job.
Better still to have a good awareness of tactics and how to out manouvre people and yet better than that...the ability to talk to people and make them understand, through a fog of alcohol and god knows what else.
_________________________
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#268222 - 01/04/08 08:32 AM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: McSensei]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
I was curious. I have seen schools that teach how to be a bodyguard and other specific SD related professions. Has anyone ever started a school or know of a school strictly designed for teaching an individual how to be a doormanor one that offers a course? With the cost of a license being as much as it is, someone choosing that profession would probably pay to have the skills to do the job properly.

Something that might teach techniques, law enforcement related issues, how to avoid lawsuits, and awareness stuff?

just curious.
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#268223 - 01/04/08 01:04 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: RazorFoot]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I was curious. I have seen schools that teach how to be a bodyguard and other specific SD related professions. Has anyone ever started a school or know of a school strictly designed for teaching an individual how to be a doormanor one that offers a course? With the cost of a license being as much as it is, someone choosing that profession would probably pay to have the skills to do the job properly.

Something that might teach techniques, law enforcement related issues, how to avoid lawsuits, and awareness stuff?

just curious.




In the UK, to get your license you have to pass the SIA, which involves the aspects you speak of in its curriculum. Basic first aid, conflict management, legal considerations and how to operate within the law. As far as I know it does not deal specificaly with restraint and/or other physical skills to any great extent, working more on the premise that if you run your door responsibly, then throwing down should not be the primary feature of your work.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#268224 - 01/06/08 05:55 PM Re: A Doormans Diary. [Re: RazorFoot]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Razor,

Not much more to add to what Cord said, as usual he is pretty much on the money.

The closest it gets to teaching you anything in the way of actually dealing with trouble is the 2nd part of the course called conflict management.

This is what I wrote in my first post, "Becoming a Doorman."

"Far too passive for my liking. It seemed to me that they were teaching that if it goes off you should get away from the trouble and get help. Surely the job is to be there and be prepared to sort out the trouble, on your own, physically, if necessary. Also, I didn't agree with some of the body language they tried to teach. Keeping your hands down and with the palms showing when someone is being threatening and abusive is inviting a right hander if you ask me.
It was still interesting and it might work with some people, but if you are relying on it and can't back it up physically, you are going to be in a world of trouble.
And there lies the problem. Anyone can do this course and to be honest, there were a couple of people on this course that clearly had no idea of how to handle themselves. They weren't even big built or anything. So what are they going to do when the sh!t hits the fan?"

So no, it doesn't even touch on the physical skills you need. And need them you do!
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#268225 - 09/08/08 08:56 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: ButterflyPalm]
zar88 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 1
hey i just wanted some opinions, im looking to get an sia badge and woork as a doorman/bouncer. im black belt in taekwon do and quite agile and got a few gold medals 4 my weight category. but as it stands im only 5ft7 and 11.5 stone.
what do you think will i be able to find work wor will employers not take me seriusly? thanks all opinions welcome.

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#268226 - 09/09/08 05:22 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: zar88]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

hey i just wanted some opinions, im looking to get an sia badge and woork as a doorman/bouncer. im black belt in taekwon do and quite agile and got a few gold medals 4 my weight category. but as it stands im only 5ft7 and 11.5 stone.
what do you think will i be able to find work wor will employers not take me seriusly? thanks all opinions welcome.




Of course you will find employment, and it will have nothing to do with your TKD. In fact, if you go into the interview saying 'yeah I aint that big but I like a fight' then you wont get the job.
Bouncing is not 'Roadhouse' I tell you what it is- its people skills, using your brain, your eyes and your mouth so that your fists and feet dont have to be used in violence.
You need to be able to mirror, empathise, control space, remove escalatory factors (or remove the person from those factors), read body language, spot 'tells' for various substances; not to mention be qualified in 1st aid (if sensible) and be familiar with self defence/assault legislation/definitions.
You also have to be a good team player- you will seldom have to deal with someone 1 on 1, at least not for long. You will be part of a team, and will have to pitch in for that team, and get to know them well to make communication and response easier between you all.

Its a profession. You need to be a professional, not a 'big scary dude'.

Get your SIA, and be prepared for long nights of standing around doing f-all, being heckled by drunks, avoiding spew, breaking up arguing couples, and occasionaly, occasionaly dealing with a big kick-off. Remember, if you do your job properly, the trouble makers wont be in there in the first place. It should be a predominantly proactive, not a reactive job.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#268227 - 09/13/08 02:24 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
JoelM Offline
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Registered: 07/26/04
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Loc: Georgia, USA
Well you just know how to take the fun out of everything, don't you, Cord?
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#268228 - 09/13/08 03:43 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: JoelM]
Cord Offline
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Quote:

Well you just know how to take the fun out of everything, don't you, Cord?




Captain Killjoy at your service.
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#268229 - 12/12/08 03:14 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Ilove2Hit Offline
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Athens, Greece
bit old threat, but may I ask about ur feeling working ur 1st night?

did u feel u were prepared?

u had some "godfather" taking a bit of care of u and telling u what to watch etc? kinda instructing u in the job?

did u already know what u had to do?

how did u mentaly prepared urselves?

do u know laugh remembering urself at ur 1st night? :P
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#268230 - 12/13/08 05:45 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Ilove2Hit]
Cord Offline
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How did I feel on my first night?

Excited, pumped, and nervous.

Did I feel 'prepared'?

Oh yes, but, you have to remember, I was 17 years old, and thought it was all about throwing down if things kicked off, so 'feeling prepared' amounted to knowing I liked a fight, having a belly full of beer, and knowing we had a hockey stick above the door for if things got out of hand

Did I have a 'godfather' teaching me the ropes?

Hah! Hell no I had my best friend and training partner working with me. It was his families pub, and his dad had asked him to keep it quiet, and asked who he wanted to help him. He said me, I said OK, and there we were- 40 quid a night anad all the beer we could drink. Best work contract I ever had

Did you already know what you had to do?

At the beginning, we had a very specific purpose- a scooter rally was in town, with about 500+ mods raising hell. It was an annual event, and many pubs didnt let them in. Our pub had let them in the year before, and they had done 6 grands worth of damage as a thankyou. Our job was to enforce a strict dress code that would prevent them from coming in again.

How did you mentaly prepare yourselves?

A workout. Lots of Pantera. Even more beer.

Do I laugh remembering me on my first night?

Kind of, but I also feel proud, because for all our nievity and inexperience, that weekend none of them got in, and we did our job. Wasn't pretty, not all of it was legal, but we came out smiling, hungover and with a regular 3 night a week gig that led to better things.
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#268231 - 12/13/08 10:48 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Ilove2Hit Offline
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Registered: 10/02/08
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Loc: Athens, Greece
i see. sounds good.

nice to hear such a story. lol

was it a big hockey stick? ^^
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#268232 - 12/13/08 02:43 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Ilove2Hit]
Cord Offline
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Quote:


was it a big hockey stick? ^^




It was a Slazenger Pro. Very sturdy.
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#268233 - 12/14/08 07:26 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Ilove2Hit Offline
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Athens, Greece
i see :O

how is it these days?

in order to be doorman do u need t join some "private security"?

or does each club, pub, etc. hire its ppl individually?
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#268234 - 12/29/08 07:38 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Ilove2Hit]
Cord Offline
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


in order to be doorman do u need t join some "private security"?

or does each club, pub, etc. hire its ppl individually?




It varies. There are some places that do their own thing, and others that like to out-source to a company to do things for them.

Either way, you need your SIA license these days, and if you want to get into it, dont use a night out to introduce yourself as, frankly, every a-hole in the world wants to be a bouncer after 6 pints, and you wont be taken seriously. Contact clubs and security firms formaly during the day, like any other job hunting exercise.
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#268235 - 01/10/09 06:22 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
bbbrisco Offline
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Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 1
i came across this short film on the guardian website the other day. it's got a headcamera attached to a doorman. the film is pretty good. about 4/5 minutes. gives a good insight into the job, i think, if anyone is interested in it.

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/video/2009/jan/02/bouncer-headcam-nightlife)

b

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#268236 - 01/12/09 08:30 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: bbbrisco]
Ilove2Hit Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Athens, Greece
nice film. not everybody is happy about this job huh?

there is another movie (more a documentary, but very nice!) i can suggest u ppl to see.

its called "Bounce - behind the velvet rope"

here a few clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YeL0BOxDOk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4PvIAEoOXs (i love this poem)

if u watch the vids, u´ll wanna watch the film/documentary. its very good!
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#268237 - 01/13/09 11:12 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Ilove2Hit]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
A doormas job isn't a easy one it has its perks and negatives not everybody going to like you inside or outside the establishment.

I think a little security training helps in the aspect of how to do things and safe measures on how to handle situations in a egoless way as much as possible. Try not to let it get personal its just business, develope a duck back an inside joke. There are also grey areas in some Clubs you must sometimes be able to be political and turn a blind ear and eye to establishment politics and also stand up when they get out of hand or be morally willing to leave.

Being a Doorman is a thanks less job sometimes, its hard to keep a steady girl friend because of the volume of beauties available or that say they are, it can be hard to trust or keep friends that aren't doorman or security personnel because of the favors asked, you wil makes some so call friends from all walks of life, most you can't trust. A lot of people will hate you and want to do harm to you because you represent he Man, or their girl friend has a silent crush on you, you may have to turn bribes with money, sex and drugs. You control the point of entry and exit. Its a dangerous and exciting job, I've seen people work it for years and never get hurt bad and others in week or months injuried or threaten so they quit.

Its like being a rouge cop with less protection, equipment, pay and no retirement. They only want to see you when you can help them, other wise they dislike you. Plenty of women though!!

Becareful and remember the grey areas.


Edited by Neko456 (01/13/09 11:15 AM)
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#268238 - 01/14/09 12:53 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Neko456]
Ames Offline
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Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Excellent post Neko. I think you really capture the experiance of being a doorman well. It is usually thankless job, with people calling you all sorts of names.

My favorite experiace?

I kicked a guy out of the bar for groping women. He didn't put up a fight, but he wouldn't move either. I put him in a chicken wing and walked him out the door. Then his friends came out and began to berate me. The guy picked up the chalk sign and went to throw it at my head! I took him down (fairly gently actually) and held him there. Meanwhile, the band was loading gear into their truck. One of the band members girlfried began screming at me:

"You [censored] facist pig, does that make you feel like you have a big cock, you [censored] facist! etc.."

Even when I explained why I had kicked him out, and that he had just tried to severely injure me with the sign (which she saw) she kept it up. She kept it up when the cops came. They handcuffed the guy I took down, and she laid into them, because I "was the one who should be arrested". They put her in cuffs too, and put her in the car with the other guy. As they began to drive away I smiled and waved to her. As the squad car went up the road, I could see through the rear view frecking out, legs kicking away. Sweet, sweet justice.

--Chris


Edited by Ames (01/14/09 12:54 PM)
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#268239 - 01/28/09 10:42 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Ames]
TheCrab Offline
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Loc: QLD Australia
When I turn 18 I want to start bouncing. I'm definitely not nightclub bouncer material as of yet. (78-80 lanky kg) but I'm not scared of a brawl and know a lot about diffusing confrontation, so even being doorman for a local pub or something like that would suit me perfectly. My mate needed cash, so he hit the gear, stacked on weight and did some door work, hes still doing it and its worked out well. so I figure I could do the same, either way it beats the sh*t out of apprentice chef wages

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#268240 - 01/28/09 11:32 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: TheCrab]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

When I turn 18 I want to start bouncing. I'm definitely not nightclub bouncer material as of yet. (78-80 lanky kg) but I'm not scared of a brawl and know a lot about diffusing confrontation, so even being doorman for a local pub or something like that would suit me perfectly.




You would make an awful doorman Crab, and its got nothing to do with your size. You dont have the mentality for it. As for knowing a lot about diffusing situations, if that was the case, then half your posts on this site would never have existed.
Go 18 months from today without rising to any verbal argument, and avoid any physical altercation, and you might be showing signs of being in a headspace to not make a situation worse.

Door work is about prevention and genuine customer relations in difficult circumstances- you cant even deal with a KFC customer.
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#268241 - 01/28/09 12:14 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
McSensei Offline
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Lol Cord. You beat me to it mate. I was just thinking the same thing.

Crab,

The last time I had to actually put my hands on someone was last weekend. Prior to that I haven't needed to for months and that is not because I can beat the snot out of everyone I've encountered, it is because I know how to interact with people and make them understand through a haze of alcohol and god-knows-what.
Somehow I don't quite think you have the maturity yet to do that.
I have worked with people with your attitude and nearly all of them I've had to rescue from some one about to rearrange their limbs or I've had to send them home for their own safety.

Cord wrote..
"Go 18 months from today without rising to any verbal argument, and avoid any physical altercation, and you might be showing signs of being in a headspace to not make a situation worse."

Wise words!
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#268242 - 01/29/09 06:20 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I'd say go on the Door, he'll quickly learn what is like to be a member of the adult world!

I'd personally have higher aspirations at 18 than becoming a 'bouncer'. Its a very easy life to get used to and institutionalized by. I was 23 when I went on the Door, but I already had been through college and had good job so Doorwork was a nice bit of pocket money. I personally think the government dropped the ball in the UK by letting under 21's get badges, and quite frankly I don't think most 18 year olds can handle the job anyway. How on earth can you expect to know how to run a bar/club when you've absolutely no experience of even being a customer in one? I've known a few young guys (and older ones actually) who've come on the Door, been seduced by the 'lifestyle' and end as total wasters living only for the night and sleeping off drug, alcohol and female induced sleep deprivation. I know plenty of people who started the door as a youth and before they even saw their life blink away they are 40 driving a now beaten up BMW and same tacky jewelery.

Aim higher...
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#268243 - 01/29/09 07:27 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Aim higher...




Its Crabbie. He got his underachievement badge in cub-scouts and has carried it with him ever since.
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#268244 - 01/29/09 06:27 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
Triddle Offline
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Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Australia
Gavin, with reference to 18 year olds having 'absolutely' no experience in bars and clubs I'd like to point out that in most of the world (including Australia, where crab is from) 18 year olds are legal and often frequent such places. The only places I know of where 21 is the legal drinking age are in the US, Fiji and Indonesia. So although 18 year olds may not exactly be veterans, they should theoretically have just as much experience as a 21 year old in the US.

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#268245 - 01/30/09 05:05 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Triddle]
Cord Offline
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Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Gavin, with reference to 18 year olds having 'absolutely' no experience in bars and clubs I'd like to point out that in most of the world (including Australia, where crab is from) 18 year olds are legal and often frequent such places. The only places I know of where 21 is the legal drinking age are in the US, Fiji and Indonesia. So although 18 year olds may not exactly be veterans, they should theoretically have just as much experience as a 21 year old in the US.




Gav is from the UK, where we all start going to pubs when we are 15, though we are not allowed to 'till we are 18

His point is in regard to having authority in a position of responsibility, and, as I started working doors when I was 17, I feel I can offer a perspective on this issue.

Whilst I had the confidence, and the ability, to do the job at such a young age, it no doubt made it significantly harder than it was when I got older, and it had nothing to do with experience.

Telling a fully grown man that he cant come into a pub/club when you yourself are not old enough/barely old enough to drink anywhere full stop, instantly creates a challenge to your authority. No 30 something bloke thinks, or wants to think, that a 'bloody kid' can keep him out of anywhere, and they will test that belief very readily.

The number of times I had to act physicaly to gain compliance in the job dropped markedly after the first 3 years, and even in my early 20's, the number of times I heard 'I was drinking in pubs before you were born!!!' or 'aint you up past your bedtime?' were frequent.

Of course, there were plenty of older guys who found out that a teenager could keep them out of anywhere, along the way , but its better to have the natural presence that maturity gives you when you start, because its a f*cking bumpy road proving yourself 4 times a weekend I can tell you
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#268246 - 01/30/09 08:32 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
TheCrab Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
Quote:


I'd personally have higher aspirations at 18 than becoming a 'bouncer'



what aspirations can a (17) year old have. Im not an intellectual bloke, so I might as well do something mindless to get some extra cash on top of my job.
You Brought up kfc cord, but I can deal with people when I want to. Sort of how you adjust the way you eat depending who your with. I have some people skills, and im definitly not afraid of an angry dero at the local pub. So it just might be for me.

My mates been doing it for a while and he says its a great night gig, decent pay, etc. cant see anything getting out of hand at the local pub, and i get in enough brawls that I might as well get payed for it.

anyway, its just a thought at the moment, and I have a couple months til im 18, so i can think it over.

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#268247 - 01/30/09 09:00 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: TheCrab]
Gavin Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:


what aspirations can a (17) year old have. Im not an intellectual bloke




What aspirations can't a 17 year old have?


Edited by Gavin (01/30/09 09:12 AM)
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#268248 - 01/30/09 09:36 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: TheCrab]
NewJitsu Offline
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Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK
Quote:

Im not an intellectual bloke, so I might as well do something mindless to get some extra cash




Brilliant! It's not often I laugh out loud from a forum posting. Part of me remembers what it was like to be young and unstoppable, part of me wishes I'd listened more to my peers.

I seriously hope you don't get a kicking, Crab, because I'll miss your posts. But carry on and you're in real danger of being fed through a tube, I fear.
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#268249 - 01/30/09 09:57 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: NewJitsu]
TheCrab Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
your treating me like im fu*king joking

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#268250 - 01/30/09 10:24 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: TheCrab]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Well, I think that answered any questions as to whether you should become a doorman. Now we'll have to wait with baited breath as to whether you're actually stupid enough to become one! Me thinks you will be - remember to get the number of a good solicitor before you start and make sure any medical insurance you may have is paid up....
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#268251 - 01/30/09 11:38 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Gavin]
TheCrab Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
you guys are hard to converse with.
looking for work would usually be considered a good thing

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#268252 - 01/30/09 11:50 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: TheCrab]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

what aspirations can a (17) year old have.




Erm... to have some self respect? enough common sense to make a life for yourself? Travel the world? Move somewhere that gives you opportunity?
Find something in life to care about?

Quote:

Im not an intellectual bloke, so I might as well do something mindless to get some extra cash on top of my job




Crab, I am telling you straight, you are not smart enough to be a good bouncer. Its not a 'mindless' job, and I would be suprised if you even got given the chance to try it - already got a bit of a rep in your neck of the woods for fighting havent you? Gone are the days when pubs/clubs hired trouble to deal with trouble. You are 20 years too late for that cobber.

Quote:

You Brought up kfc cord, but I can deal with people when I want to.




You keep saying this, and sooner or later, even you will not be able to convince yourself. For years you have posted how you have these magic, selective, people skills, but you dont People skills are about being able to behave well to people who dont deserve it, who you dont like, who dont like you. Its about putting on a 'mask' and keeping your real opinions to yourself in the name of a quiet night.
You manage not to punch one of your feckless sh1tty friends for a week and think you are a diplomat!

Quote:

Sort of how you adjust the way you eat depending who your with.




What!?!? Are you so insecure, so desperately needy, that you change your eating habits dependant on your company!?! Thats adorable

Quote:

I have some people skills, and im definitly not afraid of an angry dero at the local pub. So it just might be for me.




Let me run through your first month on the door for you.

You are going to start off looking for trouble- you will be amped up and nervous enough to want to 'stamp your authority' on the place. Regulars will get to know you, and will pass on stories about who has done what, and who they think you should watch for. You will identify these 'hard b4stards' in the pub, not to watch them, but to get 'in' with them. They will act friendly, not because they 'respect' you in any way, but because by playing nice they know you will turn a blind eye to much of what they are up to. You will be so happy for the acceptance, that you will indeed, do just that.

You will get laid- not the really cute barmaid that you want- she has seen people like you come and go a hundred times, but you will get some dregs, and some of the girls that have done the rounds and are glad of a new face, and also a few of the underage girls from your local college who will want the 'kudos' of doing a bouncer, along with the guarantee of them and their pretty little friends not getting ID'd at your door.

Your existing friends will love it, and will use your position to push their luck even more in regards to their conduct in your pub- and when they get the slap they deserve, you will ensure that you and those you work with dont remove your 'mates'.

You will think you have it sussed, until the local hard-nuts get pi$$ed off with your mates, and you have to decide which stay and which go. Dont expect a lot of help or sympathy from your colleagues by this point either, because they got tired of your brainless 'wannabe' attitude weeks before when it all kicked off and you werent there to help because you were getting blown by a 16 year old round the back by the fire exit.

You will, in no uncertain terms, get a pasting, lose your friends, and your job, all in one night.

Abd believe me, this is a best case scenario given how tragic your mindset is.

Quote:

anyway, its just a thought at the moment, and I have a couple months til im 18, so i can think it over.




If you have a thought within the next 2 months, you will be showing vast improvements already.
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#268253 - 02/02/09 11:14 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
Ilove2Hit Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Athens, Greece
Quote:


Quote:

what aspirations can a (17) year old have.



Erm... to have some self respect? enough common sense to make a life for yourself? Travel the world? Move somewhere that gives you opportunity?
Find something in life to care about?





can some1 please add GIRLS?!

thats the minimum of what a teen could have in mind. girls girls girls...

lol.

as for the rest...

i kind of bounced a bit around at my 18 too. not much. just when there was no money i did it for a few night a month. no pubs or anything ruff, just clubs for the fine and rich ones.

the good thing was that i had very experienced mates. (a whole team, since it was a multi level club).

i can tell u that bouncing is all in ur heart and in your brain, definetly not in your biceps! (and thats something in understood before doing the job).

i´ve been in bars since my early 13. especially here in greece where there is nobody checking IDs and there is no police around that gives a f%ck.

i dont wanna spam around my poor experiences in the few nights i´ve worked, even though they tought me a lot of things for all my life. i just really want to tell u that it is not only about getting some "extra cash".

it just taked one of the guys who u wanna take out to splash a bottle on ur head and slit ur throat with the rest piece of glass in his hand.

if it is just "this extra cash" then it isnt worth your health being damaged and definetly not your life. this is all i can tell u. better have a 2nd job u get a bit less money then risking stuff that cant be bought with money.
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#268254 - 02/14/09 04:57 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: TheCrab]
Inarai Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 36
Quote:

Quote:


I'd personally have higher aspirations at 18 than becoming a 'bouncer'



what aspirations can a (17) year old have.




Anything and everything. You don't aspire to what you're immediately able to do, you aspire to where you want to be down the road. You aspire to what you want out of life.

I ask you this: Is that really what you want out of your life?

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#268255 - 02/17/09 04:05 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Inarai]
Ilove2Hit Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 264
Loc: Athens, Greece
if u get a doorman certificate in the UK, is it internationaly recognized?
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#268256 - 02/17/09 04:11 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Ilove2Hit]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

if u get a doorman certificate in the UK, is it internationaly recognized?




Good question. but as laws differ from country to country, I would think the answer to be no.
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#268257 - 02/17/09 08:47 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: Cord]
JoelM Offline
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Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Cord, those are quite detailed views of a first month of bouncing. I'm sure you garnered it all from someone else's biography, right?
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#268258 - 02/17/09 05:29 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: JoelM]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Actually I did He was older than Crab, but had the same mindset towards the job- he thought it was about being 'the man' and a license to let his mates do what they wanted, and he courted/craved the attention of certain 'faces' in town based on his new position.

Whilst he was not recieving any 'favours' at the time, he did a vanishing act the first night there was a big kick off and we all had to attend the dancefloor to deal with it.
Afterwards he said he was checking the fire escapes and lost radio contact, but one of the bar staff let it slide that he was in eyeline of the dancefloor.

He was subjected to an after hours kangaroo court, where he was told a) to stop acting like a twat, and b) if he ever bottled it again, he would get 10 times the beating from his colleagues in comparsion to what he feared from a flare-up.

He quit the next day, after less than a month.

I dont think Crab would be a coward, but I think that his personality would ensure a certain parity with my predictions.
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#422031 - 09/01/09 06:10 AM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: McSensei]
Erika Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 1
If you want to make a career in security industry, you should have a proper license and certification to be able to find employment. In today's age of uncertainty and terror, security personnel are on an increased demand. To cash in on this demand, honest and people with integrity can look forward to a good and successful career in securing various areas.
For more details on the security industry and in particular door supervision I can suggest link and associated text pimping the link deleted. No advertising. If people want to get their SIA, a simple search will bring up a selection of companies offering SIA training, from which they can choose at their leisure


Edited by Cord (09/01/09 06:29 AM)
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security licence

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#422540 - 09/26/09 12:21 PM Re: Becoming a doorman [Re: NewJitsu]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
I work in the security industry and spent a few years working as a doorman (doorwoman?) in a busy club district. I enjoyed the heck out of it and consider it valuable experience on my resume. So do industry recruiters, and that has paid off for me financially. Why? Working in such a fast-paced environment where situations can develop at light speed really sharpens your focus and ability to maintain that focus for long period of time. Greeting patrons at the door is great practice in sizing up people and spotting possible trouble. Keeping tabs on the crowd teaches you how to spot breaks in the traffic pattern and step in with a team while the fight is still developing. And, of course, a crash course in police relations.
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