FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 16 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT, sagat
22914 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ed_Morris 4
futsaowingchun 3
AndyLA 2
ergees 2
Zombie Zero 2
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
Recent Posts
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
Yesterday at 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/07/14 07:01 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
09/02/14 06:26 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/31/14 09:43 PM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
Forum Stats
22914 Members
36 Forums
35575 Topics
432492 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#267228 - 06/27/06 09:33 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: Dereck]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Best option is, of course, don't get your leg caught in the first place. I agree with you however that the takedown will likely be very fast. However, unless there is a knee lock, it is quite difficult to take someone down instantly. If the person who's leg is caught bends the leg quickly, it will extend their time standing. This may be enough to get a clinch. Either way, the likelihood of being taken down is high. It's just I'd rather take them down with me than have them standing above me while I lie down on the ground for them. I think we all know that the best position you can be in when attacking someone is standing up with them on the ground below you. Eliminating this by taking both parties to the ground reduces your opponent's advantage considerably. In fact, if you have groundfighting training and he doesn't, it nullifies his advantage completely the moment the two of you hit the ground.

Further more, one advantage of my clinch method is that it sets you up quite well for a flying armbar if you are trained well enough and have lots of upper-body strength.

I would like it if you would make this thread a sticky thread, this topic appears to be a recurring one.


Edited by Leo_E_49 (06/27/06 09:36 PM)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

Top
#267229 - 06/27/06 09:56 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: Dereck]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Guys -

I haven't taken the time to read through all of the posts (I DID read bits and pieces).

Let me just tell you how I would handle the situation. I like Derecks format of both perspectives and will use that myself.


I caught YOUR kick:

If I managed to catch your kick, it was probably because it was a mid-level kick to begin with. Lower kicks tend to be faster and get progressively slower the higher you go (slower in a relative sense of the word mind you).

If I catch a kick, I'm going to use my opposite arm to keep you off of me. Sort of like a football stiff-arm. Then I will do one of three basic things:
  • Step backward quickly to drag my opponent off-balance and down (this has the potential to injure/pull the groin muscle so you have to be careful in training)
  • Take my opposite hand and forearm across the back of the knee, pulling hard right behind the knee joint to drag him off balance
  • Use my leg opposite of the side I have the kicked trapped on to trip your support leg


I may even attempt a Barsagar (a wrestling takedown based off a single leg attack)


If you caught MY kick:

GOOD LORD!!! What the hell was I doing KICKING in the FIRST place?!??!??! I must have forgotten about my cardinal rule against kicking EVER under any circumstances!!

Just kidding. (Not really)

Anyway, you caught my kick. I have to treat it like Iím countering a single leg now. There are two basic things to try first:

1. Get in close to your opponent and grab the elbow of the arm that has your leg trapped. As you grab the elbow, push your leg further through his arm until your leg is more beneath you. You should now be able to put some weight on it and step through. As you do this, try and get his head down if you can.

2. The second way might be easier but depends on timing. As your kick is caught, turn away from your opponent quickly and simply pull your leg downward and out. When you turn away, have the mentality that youíre about to sprint away from your opponent. This has to be done quickly, but Iíve seen it work a lot.


Those are two methods that are basic but work pretty well. Timing is everything as it always is. Isolate that situation and practice it for reps.

The caught kick scenario is one that Iím not often in seeing as how I rarely ever kick. I would use one of the above methods to deal with it if I were in that situation. I would also treat it as a single leg and come in close, getting a whizzer on one arm and wrist control on the other as I try sprawling my weight back and getting his head down UNDER my weight instead of upright with him looking at me.

If the guy is good with it though, youíre probably going down so itís a good idea to be ready for that and prepare to start working from your guard position once on the mat.


There are some amazing things that people can and will do. Iím more conservative however and take a simple approach. I find that works better over the long haul. Pick a couple of things and get your reps in. Perhaps what Iíve said has already been said and if so, I apologize.


Thanks

-John

Top
#267230 - 06/28/06 12:59 AM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: Leo_E_49]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
I probably should have clarified that once your leg is caught, if caught from far away, you should clinch, by pulling your leg back and trying to get closer when you strike. Also low kicks are extremely hard to catch, so use a lot of them in a street fight. With a few mid kicks, and high kicks if you want.
_________________________
"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

Top
#267231 - 06/29/06 01:30 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: Mike_L]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Thanks for all the great replies, guys. I'm sorry if this topic has been done before, but I couldn't remember a detailed look at this particular issue, and well at least it's stickied now.

Anyway, I'd like to move on to the second part of my original question: how do you train for it? Do you simply do drills where one person catches the others' leg, then brings them down, with the other trying to end up in the best possible situation? Maybe some of you have imaginative approaches to training for this? Maybe, even, some of you *don't* train for this, and are suddenly feeling the urge to start
_________________________
My Workout Log

Top
#267232 - 06/29/06 03:08 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: TimBlack]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Easiest way to train it is just allow leg-catches and takedowns in sparring.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

Top
#267233 - 06/29/06 03:56 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: TimBlack]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
To be honest Tim, the training we have received on this is very minimal.

With most things we train, we train light first with no resistance, then with a little resistance and then with more resistance ... but not enough that you are full out or will injury your partner or yourself (too much ). By doing it light first you can get the idea of trying to clinch up and what it feels like, or try other techniques. We do this numerous of times and then switch with our parnter so they can get a feel for it. Then we do it with a little resistance the same way working back and forth and then with enough resistance that if you try to get it that you probably won't but try you still do. Because we train break falling skills separate we take this for granted that we all know this since more then likely you are going to land on your back. For those that don't have good skills then they don't go to this level.

It is hard to practice something like this as soon as somebody has your leg you are at a disadvantage. I'm not saying that it can't be practiced but it is something we do not practice often and cannot remember the last time with the exception of the George St. Pierre seminar a few weekends back.

I'd be interested in reading other's responses as well.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
#267234 - 06/29/06 06:03 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: Dereck]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Great Thread Tim it's good to finaly talk about TKD as a martial art and not just in sports context or your basic selfdefense issues.

In my earlier years of training I trained for leg catches and what to do once I have them. It is my experience that I am only able to catch someones kick when they are being lazy or are tired. I would think it is very dfficult to catch a TKDist leg simple because of the extensive use and practice they have with throwing the kicks. A wel trained TKDist should know the dangers of such improper technique and I find hard to beleive that such a situation could happen. I would think it happens more in other karate type styles.

When watching UFC matches I rarely see kicks being caught, that said I rarely see kicks being avoided also. Usually because these guys are muscle bound they just block the kick with knees and forwarms, while more point karate or olympic stylist avoid and evade the kicks. I guess it depends how conditioned they are.

I myself am not conditioned enough to block or deflect kicks so simple, I block only when I have to, I prefer not to be in the way of an attack. That is how I train. I have practiced catching kicks with people of all ages and sizes, kids are extremely to catch, adults a little harder and usually results in more pain. I've mainly practice catching only two types of kicks The front thrust kick, which is well within avoidance range simple because if you read the opponent you can see it comming by the knee rising towards their chest. This kick can be caught simply with an unerhand scoop. I've been taught only three ways to respond once I catch the leg. Either pull to off balance the kicker. I do this by either steping back or side stepping while still maining a hold of the leg. This then would lead to a leg lock or ankle lock. And I only nkow a few variations of those.

My second approach once I catch the leg is step in and sweep the suporting leg. The attacker falls on their and I procede with either a strike or a leg lock. A strike here is necessary because I have step into the attacker, I am no within range to strike with my hands. Ground and pound sort of thing.

My third reaction is to slightly jerk the leg foraward then push the leg back into the opponent throwing them back wards on their back. I suppose a grapple would then smother the fallen opponent, however, because I hae no training in ground attacks, I would simple run.

The same techniques can be practice with a thrusting roundhouse kick. When the opponent commits to the kick, however, depending on the size of your oppoenents you may want to re-think this approach. As state before I've worked with some 250+ pound guys and although these men do not kick with speed they kick with a lot of power. Often my bicep would be bruised just by catching the kick, being able to hold on to it was a different story. My current teacher was an army recruiter he often wore his combat boots I'd ask him about catching kicks. He'd tell that it's not the best of ideas that it was better to avoid the kick altogether, he assured me that if I were t try and catch his kick that more than likely I would break my arm. This was his apporach to leg grabbing and why he stressed avoidance and evasion. This prinicple helped in olympic style sparring also.

I guess someone will read "thrust roundhouse kick" and wonder what the heck that means, I suppose it can be refered to as a push roundhouse kick. Basiclly it's a kick your commiting your entire weight into.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#267235 - 06/29/06 07:23 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: TeK9]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

When watching UFC matches I rarely see kicks being caught, that said I rarely see kicks being avoided also. Usually because these guys are muscle bound they just block the kick with knees and forwarms, while more point karate or olympic stylist avoid and evade the kicks. I guess it depends how conditioned they are.




I saw a video a while back of a guy's shin being broken to the point where his lower leg wobbled like jelly and he couldn't stand. This was in a Muay Thai match and goes to show that brute force blocking is always the worst way of dealing with things.

Quote:

As state before I've worked with some 250+ pound guys and although these men do not kick with speed they kick with a lot of power.




Imagine if they did kick with speed. Now that would hurt. Most people who are big don't train for good technique just because they can rely on their size. Every so often you come across someone who's really big and really fast and then you learn the meaning of pain.

The explanation is that the energy of a strike is a combination of the mass of the limb and body that is put into the strike and the speed of the kick. So if someone's heavy and slow, they will kick hard or if they're light and fast, they will kick hard. But if they're heavy and fast, they'll kick really hard. (This is demonstrated by the fact that kinetic energy equals mass multiplied by velocity squared all divided by two: KE = (m * v^2) / 2)
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

Top
#267236 - 06/29/06 10:08 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: Leo_E_49]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
Well something I've come up with is too literally jump on them. I highly doubt this is legal in the UFC, and no I'm not talking about some fancy Ong-Bak thing(awesome how he got on his shoulders and clobbered him with elbows).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3200145913123453079&q=aikido

^-- Thats an aikido video, at around 1:18 he does a similiar lunge to the guy who's charging. This can be done if your leg is caught, I've tried it on people a bit bigger than me and it works. IMO, it works better the higher your jump, almost like trying to land on them, they should let go or get pushed backwards and downward to the ground. I've tried this on people a bit bigger than me, but I haven't tried it on anyone 6'0" yet...

Sorry if that explanation is vague.


Top
#267237 - 07/17/06 04:14 PM Re: Training for the leg catch [Re: Dereck]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
With the traditional fighting stance (open hands, rear arm at stomach, lead arm outstretched) it's extremely easy to catch most mid level kicks. Just move forward and to the side and their leg will fall right into your arms. Side kicks are the most difficult to catch, IMO.

Top
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga