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#266796 - 08/03/06 12:35 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: BrianS]
alphawolf Offline

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 137
I don't think MA is becoming weak, it is just that martial arts as a whole is not as necessary for survival in the world as it was before guns were around. Back then, your skill meant everything. Martial arts now is practiced for self defense and for perfection of character( in my opinion anyway). Even the most dedicated training routine today would likely not stand up to the training back when it was NECESSARY for survival. Sure you can use what you learn for self defense, but chances are you are not going to be in H2H combat with someone all the time in the real world unless you go looking for trouble. I have personally never been in a fight and never plan to, seeing as i believe that the greatest victory lies in the battle not fought. I love karate and aikido and have done it for a long time, but if someone is 10 feet infront of me with a gun, i honestly stand no chance except to run like hell. Martial arts as it is is simply a reflection of the age we live in.
More chi! Train harder!

#266797 - 08/08/06 01:24 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: alphawolf]
kerris75 Offline

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2
Loc: BC, Canada
I've been reading this thread, and it's quite interesting seeing everyone's opinions. With regards to the matter of sparring, I've trained in styles in which there was no or extreme minimal contact. Currently I train full contact. I've gotten benefits out of both. I find that the no-contact sparring has given me a level of control that most of my fellow kickboxers do not have (especially with their kicks), but full contact has helped me to understand what works and what doesn't (sometimes in an unfortunately painful way - try a cracked cheekbone thanks to a slicing roundhouse ). I believe that when we train we should train "with" each other, rather than "against" each other. If we hurt our fellow students, then that is time that they cannot train. This is something I am working very hard to make my young students understand.
As Aplhawolf mentioned, martial arts is a reflection of the age we live in. What I have seen lately is that martial arts is becoming more about the business and the students are seen as "customers". I think this is where martial arts is becoming weak. In many places, the traditional values that should be part and parcel of martial arts are being lost in consumerism.

I also agree the grammar issue of the thread, anyhoo...

#266798 - 08/09/06 08:08 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: kerris75]
ANDY44 Offline

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
In college I have come across many people who practise Karate, Judo, Aikido Kung Fu and some other styles.
I talk to them, a lot of them though seem to be like I was at the age of 13/14, Some even wanted to fight me but gave up after learning that I do full contact Ju Jitsu, a lot of Karate clubs seem to do Non contact or semi contact, I dont understand why, I think that martial; arts should be full contact, this way you learn how much the technique you do hurts, and you it allows you to leanr how to deal with pain when fighting.

HI there hows it going?.
Full contact might have its place.
It is nigh on impossible to fight full contact with out removing a fair amount of Techniques.
Most of which should be or could be used in self defence. There fore there has to be a need for none contact or semi contact training/ fighting in the MA,s.

How many times is a person going to allow some one to grab and twist their testicles? Or drop a knee in to their throat?Or head butt someone fully?

Using gloves will minimise the skill effect of fighting with out gloves? but thatís another argument.
Im not sure what the rules you use in Ju jitsu are but if a person applied full contact everytime they trained/fought they are going to end up punch drunk or have knackered limbs and other body parts.

Either way

I think that there is a use of none contact or light contact in MA,s
Karate and Ju jitsu are not getting weaker/softer where I practice.

Ous Andy

Edited by ANDY44 (08/09/06 08:32 AM)

#266799 - 08/09/06 08:10 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: wristtwister]
ANDY44 Offline

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
Hi Wrist twister.

Real karate strikes with punches, kicks, strikes, blocks, butts, elbows, knees, feet... etc... not "pads", even though the pads conduct some force, the loss of technique from blocking (which is just as forceful as the strikes and punches) is pretty much lost. Instead of "solid blocks", the sparring partners use "bump" blocks to fend and ward off punches, and never really get to the core of karate, which is a full contact disabling art.

I Totally agree with this statement.
But do you think that the people with this kind of
Knowledge are getting less and less?

Edited by ANDY44 (08/09/06 08:33 AM)

#266800 - 08/16/06 10:27 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: ANDY44]
Spade Offline

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 255
Loc: Auburn, Al.
I've done full contact and pull contact sparring. I find that pull contact helps you improve faster then full contact, it forces you to control your speed, timing, and strenght much more. It also allows you to use more techniques, if you are going full contact, you arn't going to do a throat strike or a knee stomp, however you can train those types of techniques in pull contact.

I still enjoy full contact, and its still great for trainning too, but that type of thing seems more like once a month, where pull contact can help you improve everyday. I messed up my ankle doing full contact, and couldn't train for three months.
"always paddle your own canoe." - Cord

#266801 - 01/10/07 05:48 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Spade]
Amadeu Offline

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 11
Loc: England, Kent
not at all, in our club we certanly practise all strikes, and of course we dont go over the top with certain such as throat and groing hits, but they do certanly hurt.

But if you dont know how to deal with pain what would you after geting hit, because what would happen if your opponent knows martial arts.
club motto is "If it Hurts It Works"

#266802 - 01/14/07 08:20 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: kerris75]
Midnightcrawler Offline

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England

As Aplhawolf mentioned, martial arts is a reflection of the age we live in. What I have seen lately is that martial arts is becoming more about the business and the students are seen as "customers". I think this is where martial arts is becoming weak. In many places, the traditional values that should be part and parcel of martial arts are being lost in consumerism.

Perfectly correct, students ARE customers. You really should know this as from your profile you earn your living by instructing in MA. I consider it is reasonable to presume that your organisation is fully insured and extends every courtesy and facility to your customers as would be expected from any other professional service provider, EG Doctor, Dentist, Solicitor (Lawyer) or Teacher of mathematics? If this is not the case then why not? In not doing so you leave the organisation and by implication yourself wide open to legal action should a customer decide to sue for injury sustained whilst 'in your care'.

By way of example let me quote you; "try a cracked cheekbone thanks to a slicing roundhouse". This could be worth a small fortune to the injured party, and without appropriate insurance might mean bankruptcy to the service provider.

So to make it short, any MA training provider who considers their attendees to be anything less than customers is ultimately riding for a very large fall. So why are they customers? Simple answer; they put food on your plate, clothes on your back, a roof over your head, a car on your driveway and in some instances a helicopter on your landing pad. That is what customers do, PAY YOU. So the least they can expect in return, is not to be damaged in the process.

God only knows; Really.

#266803 - 08/16/07 01:09 AM Re: Are martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Amadeu]
falconhunter2020 Offline

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 16
You have a very unique perspective regarding contact force. You say we should only practice full contact, but not in competition...?

My school practices semi-contact because going full force aginst your training partner from the same dojo is counter-productive. It prevents the growth of inexperienced students and over-inflates the egos of experienced students.
Also, other than increasing pain tolerance and maybe endurance, using full contact in a sparring session (of the same length) doesn't increase your fighting skills any more than semi-contact, but since you can spar much longer using semi-contact, you can develop your skills much more.

#266804 - 10/11/07 06:31 PM Re: Are martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Amadeu]
fileboy2002 Offline

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL

Keep in mind that martial arts schools are (mostly) for-profit businesses and therefor need a certain base number of students to survivie. Full-contact training is the best way to train. But it is also a way that lacks appeal for senior citizens, sedentary people, small kids, etc. The only people who can consistently be counted to accept full-contact training are those who are young, fit, and confident. Unfortunately, those folks are not numerous ebnough to keep most schools profitable. Martial arts school often "water down" their training to appeal to a broader audience.

#266805 - 12/05/07 12:30 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Spade]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Are martial arts becoming weak? I'd say no, martial arts are martial arts, I think do however think that in many areas, martial artistS are becoming weak but that is simply a character and individual issue, not an issue with the styles.
I also think that largely depends on the area you're in and your social class. Those factors say a lot about how necessary it is for you to be a "tough fighter" and be real effective with your MA skills and how hard you'll train. In some cases MA quality has never been better and in some cases it has never been worse. I'd say the amount of MA schools that are on MCdojo level has risen in recent years though. But it's probably not much different than it's ever been. People are people and MA is MA.
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon:,

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