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#266776 - 06/27/06 11:59 PM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Amadeu]
PaulHart Offline
banned member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 192
Loc: The Real
I would like to invite you to my Dojo, or any of my groups Dojo. In the UK I would like to suggest you visit Shoshinkan Dojo if you cannot make the trip. There are some left who teach strong Karate.
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#266777 - 06/28/06 01:26 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Ronin1966]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Hello Amadeu:

How can you, or I ever know the answer to this question? We were not alive "then", and even if we had been our life expectancy was not terribly long....

Do you genuinely believe that full-contact is the best indicator of skill? You are a young man, earnest at what you study... but your life experience is small, as well it should be (ie compaired to folks far older). Will you feel the same way when you perhaps have a family of your own...? Will you feel the same way if you have children someday? A job which requires unfortunate demands on your schedule and time....

There is no question that sustained ONLY full-contact arts produce tough people. Yet how many were crushed, made serious fodder by such training without cause? Is the art you study best served by only having teens and twenty something fit male students... or can something useful, wonderful be gained by having an "older" crowd, a younger crowd... those of a very different mental temperment, and outlook, because of what they have done in their lives thus far?

Are we genuinely, truly served best/only by the pain only route? I propose (rightly/wrongly) that no matter how tough, or how skilled we might be, any of us can be taken out but stupid luck. Any of us will cower/defer/surrender to someone especially if they have a couple of kids and are *@#*@#@)#@ CRANKY, angry, annoyed... myself I am not so ~tough~

Are "you"?
J




Excellent post!
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#266778 - 06/28/06 03:46 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: PaulHart]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Q:why doesn't every school practice full contact sparring?

A: Insurance!

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#266779 - 06/28/06 05:19 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: pepto_bismol]
Tezza Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 775
Loc: Kent, U.K.
Quote:

Q:why doesn't every school practice full contact sparring?

A: Insurance!






Exactly!
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#266780 - 06/28/06 12:52 PM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Tezza]
Shepster Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 27
Loc: UK
Firstly hello all - I'm a long time lurker finally registered.

I'd suggest that there's quite a difference between the title of this thread and the actual discussion. On the one hand, martial arts do not necessarily need to be practiced full contact all the time in order to be "strong". On the other hand, there is clearly something to be learnt from the pressure and fear that higher levels of contact can create, and I do think that many martial arts schools shy away from that "pressure training" to avoid scaring students away.

For instance, I have never sparred full contact. I do remember, though, the first time I had to spar against someone who was much better than me (both in grade and sparring ability). During the round, he began to "turn it on" and put quite a lot of pressure on me - I learnt more from those 3 mins than in 6 months of more general training because I learnt how much more I needed to practice to be able to respond usefully under that kind of pressure.

The instructor and the senior student involved clearly felt comfortable putting me (quite a junior student) under that kind of pressure because I was older (30s) and bigger (>100kg) than most - and I'm very glad they did. I'm not certain, though, that every martial arts student gets this "shock treatment" in an appropriate way and at an appropriate time - creating the danger that people can think their skills are more ready for "reality" than they really are.

Anyhow, maybe wildly off topic for a first post, but I'd suggest that there is a danger that martial arts training becomes weak over time, but that it doesn't have much to do with full contact training per se.

cheers

Shep
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#266781 - 06/28/06 01:27 PM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Shepster]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Shepster -

Quote:

I'm not certain, though, that every martial arts student gets this "shock treatment" in an appropriate way and at an appropriate time - creating the danger that people can think their skills are more ready for "reality" than they really are.




Agreed, Shep. I really believe that these situations are required to get a good sense of perspective on your skills, and your ability to use them. The highest skill level is of little use if you fold under pressure from a quality opponent or just a hard attack.
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#266782 - 06/28/06 04:08 PM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Shepster]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Welcome mate

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#266783 - 06/29/06 04:46 AM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: oldman]
Shepster Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 27
Loc: UK
Thanks! Nice to be here.
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#266784 - 06/29/06 03:37 PM Re: Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Shepster]
Amadeu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 11
Loc: England, Kent
hei shepster im new here to mate.
wristewister, I agree with you, and that is hwat I was trying to say, for example in our seminars we have orange belts in ju jitsu who seem to be more capable of doing the techniques, showing a higher sense of understanding and knowlegde than a dan grade in what was non contact karate, of course I get sore as hell lol, but you tend to be more capable in coping with pain than normaly, and obviusly we have insurance, and we dont hit for example someone in the balls(I have got hit there before thoiugh lol, Im the youngest so they pick on me which is a good thing so I will get tougher ermm hopefully)instead of hitting someone in the balls you would hit them in the legs.

I mean last seminar a girl who does childs and half of the adults classes made a aikido brown belt cry, a red belt in ju jitsu put a guy down with one punch to the stomach, and even the aikido sensei said to my sensei simon chantler, I would hate to dight one of your guys because you do it full on, you got control and you know whats like to geting hit, I from this though can see a great foult with myself, Im way too proud lol.
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#266785 - 06/30/06 03:51 AM Is martial arts becoming weak? [Re: Amadeu]
Ryan_Doherty Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 55
Loc: Australia
No. If anything, the martial artists are...


Edited by Ryan_Doherty (06/30/06 03:52 AM)
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