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#266471 - 06/24/06 02:21 PM southern mantis-jeet kune do connection?
RonShively1022 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 47
Loc: South Carolina
I have a question concerning jeet kune do. Gin Foon Mark,the southern mantis master, often claims that much of Jeet Kune Do was derived from southern mantis.

Is there any proof or validity to his claim?

And, if it is true, how did Jeet Kune Do benefit from an infusion of southern mantis?

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#266472 - 06/25/06 04:41 AM Re: southern mantis-jeet kune do connection? [Re: RonShively1022]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
yea I've read the interview about it too and I wouldnt say that there is any solid evidence that its true. Though I wouldnt say that its not out of the question.

Southern Mantis stance is more evenly distributed than compared to the WC pigeon stance, where lots of weight stays in the back. JKD def. does not suggest something like a WC stance since it inhibits movement (in certain ways). Honestly I dont think I have seen enough of the real JKD that Lee had, much of it is flashy demos and movies, which isnt the real thing. So honestly I can't say.

Also alot of JKD came from a big mix of many things. JKD benefits from all types of arts..or rather, all types of arts benefit from JKD.

But strictly talking about Southern Mantis, I would say the speed aspect of it. The strength and speed of Southern Mantis is heavily related, to have one you need the other. But back to topic. The main thing about Southern Mantis is to keep the arms extended, reducing the distance needed to travel inorder to hit someone. I mean if your hand was next to your chin compared to your hand being 1, 1.5 feet from your chin its obvious that the farther hand would reach the target faster. If you develop the strength then the hit will deal the same (or more) damage as well. This doesnt just apply to attacking but defending as well. You can block attacks well in advance if your arm is farther out by using the same principle mentioned above. This is the major weapons of Southern Mantis, the range of our arms allows people to function alot faster..and you know Lee was all about speed. Faster your fist, the more force it packs. Theres also alot of redirections and such when you're in trapping range and with the training can move the opponents arms and fists out the way pretty easily, opening him up for attacks. Its also very direct (just like WC). The main thing I find more "realistic" about Southern Mantis is the more relaxed stance. I cant imagine someone naturally standing in a pigeon stance but the mantis "Ma" (horse, not to be confused with horse stance) is very relaxed. Shoulder with apart, one foot slightly infront of the other, knees slightly bent, almost like your just standing there. Though I will say Lee prefered a more 45 degree stance, Mantis faces straight forward, but that all changes to a more 45/sideways stance in sparring (why? i dont really know). So I would say the speed and range of attacks and also the easily appliable stance is something that might have stuck in Lee's mind when he was developing his JKD.
_________________________
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#266473 - 06/25/06 08:24 PM Re: southern mantis-jeet kune do connection? [Re: IExcalibui2]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I believe there was a bit of whoue flaeng pu in it as well.

There IS NO DOUBT that with that addition, it wouldn't have been NEARLY as dangerous a style that it became.


Just my opinion.


-John

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#266474 - 06/26/06 10:03 AM Re: southern mantis-jeet kune do connection? [Re: RonShively1022]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I beleive that JKD is its own original ideas. Lee took what he thought was valid from WC and added to western boxing, savate, fencing, wrestling, judo, other kung-fu and martial art systems to develop JKD. Its similar to a lot of arts because the human body is limited and can only move some many ways.

Now does Southern Praying Mantis have things in common with Wing Chung of course it does, both are close in hand systems that are based on combat not too many flowery moves.
But you could make the same connection with Southern White crane and other close hand systems. They are both short move systems were defense is applied with offense and vice versa, both are based on speed rather then strength (I believe SM stress more strength then WC). And of course SM has many more weapons and empty hand forms then WC. Though I've notice some WC Master form charts are varied and more forms then YipMan's, who was not the only WC Master in his day. He bc famous for training William Lee & Bruce Lee.


Edited by Neko456 (06/26/06 10:04 AM)
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#266475 - 06/26/06 08:14 PM Re: southern mantis-jeet kune do connection? [Re: Neko456]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
Yea I would say that WC and SM share a great deal of similarities so that the influence it has on the development of Lee's JKD might have shared a good amount of influence as WC did. Mentioned above might have been some of the differences that Lee took into consideration. But information is pretty rare on the topic of SM and without some written notes from Lee or if one of his main students like Insanto says that SM made a huge impact on JKD development then I would probably stick to the idea that a big chunk came from WC.
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