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#266284 - 06/24/06 07:56 AM Political Thread of Fury
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
thread title sounds like a bad BL knockoff.

I'm going to teeter on the edge of getting this thread locked even before it makes it to a second page...actually, lets make that the goal...who's with me...

ok, we can argue about something with no intention of changing our own mind, while at the same time infuriating people who don't think the same way as the poster. here are some topics we can argue about...

* any presidential campaign promises that didn't materialize. ie: 'compasionate conservatism'

* lock first time violent criminals away? or rehabilitate them?

* international security vs. homeland security.

* gun control vs. proliferation.


(Matt and mods: Do what you need to do when you can't take any more, my friends. )

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#266285 - 06/24/06 10:55 AM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: Ed_Morris]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I'm OK with it for an experiment. If we can discuss without getting really un-civil, it's good with me.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#266286 - 06/24/06 02:12 PM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: Ed_Morris]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
* any presidential campaign promises that didn't materialize. ie: 'compasionate conservatism'

Do any promises by politicians ever appear???

* lock first time violent criminals away? or rehabilitate them?

Both!!!

* international security vs. homeland security.

Bwaaaahhhhaaahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! What security?? It's a complete myth!

* gun control vs. proliferation.

Yeah, give everyone a gun...it'll do wonders for population control.
_________________________
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#266287 - 06/25/06 06:53 AM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: Ed_Morris]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Quote:


* gun control vs. proliferation.





Compare gun homicide %'s in UK (no legal guns) and Texas (everyone and their granny has an M16). Now agree with me that noone should be carrying.
_________________________
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#266288 - 06/25/06 09:55 AM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: TimBlack]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
is it possible to be 'too capitalistic' ? gun manufacturers put millions into gun law lobying (and guess what they lobby for?) ...is that in the interest of people or business?
The same for drug companies, oil companies, religeous groups, etc. they are obviously given more say by buying out the competition (the public).

should it be the number of people for or against something, or should it be the number of dollars for or against something?

There are laws put in place specifically for that reason - to temper the amount of 'voice' money has comparred to the people's wishes. like maximums that any one entity can contribute to presidental campaigns, no buying off senators for house votes, etc. but those deals go on - they just get better at hiding it (money laudering).

The amount of corruption is often gageable only by the end results. people get the shaft, the rich and big business get the breaks. every administration has varying degrees of corruption, but does anyone else feel a rather large difference to what slice of the pie people get comparred to the top 1% ? 'Trickle-down' methods don't work, nor have they ever worked. give the top 1% what they want and it moves and benefits among themselves - it doesn't spark economy or lift public funding projects. at best, it raises the top 5% into the top 1% bracket by pushing the middle class lower.

It's really pretty alarming the trend the US has been on. I'm no socialist, but too much corruption and greed of the rich is simply not healthy.

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#266289 - 06/25/06 02:17 PM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: Ed_Morris]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Quote:


should it be the number of people for or against something, or should it be the number of dollars for or against something?




The constitution doesn't say "We The Dollars", does it?

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#266290 - 06/25/06 04:08 PM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
The only way you could remove money from the political system, would be to make the job of politicain an unpaid post, with an honorary stipend for a modest standard of living. As it is, by the time a person/party has got into power (either UK or US), they have got into bed with big business for funding, and the favour must be returned.
Even hard line left wing labour party in the UK were in the pocket of the unions.
Politics is big business. Its like asking water not to be wet.

Bukowski said the difference between democracy and dictatorship is that you dont have to go to the effort of voting for a dictatorship before being told how to live your life.
I am with him on this one. You only have to look at how uncomfortable the British labout government is about holding a reforendum about UK integrating fully with the EU.
They want us to, the public who elected them, on the whole, want to retain our principle soveriegn rights. The Government dont want to hear the opinion of the people they represent, and so stall in the hope our opinions change, or untill they find a loophole to go ahead reagrdless of what we think. Its a gutless wolf in sheeps clothing.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#266291 - 06/25/06 05:29 PM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: Cord]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
can't really remove money from politics all together, just need the check and balances to be checked and balanced. but when laws are passed in order to limit those checks, the balance gets thrown out of whack and you have the beginnings of a defunc system which was originally written and amended to handle changing times reguardless of the personalities of the greedy, stupid, careless, foolish, etc which pass thru the system in charge of keeping it running.

IMO, once the court system is rigged, the system goes downhill faster than any other brnach rigging. control the rules, and the people who influence those rules and you got yourself a puppet democracy.

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#266292 - 06/25/06 06:24 PM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: Ed_Morris]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I am of the opinion that the quality of democracy that we have today is a constant and comparable to any time previous to this. the difference is not in the systems of power, rather in the masses increased awareness of its shortcomings.
the increased freedom of the press, and the spread of the internet has lifted the veil of spin and image from a previously closed world.
Look at the difference in tone and content between news bulletins about WW2 and the latest conflict in Iraq. The open criticism of purpose and action simply was not allowed during WW2- all news became propoganda for the war effort, controlled and coerced by the governments. Media is still propaganda, but can choose its affiliation at will.
Vietnam, Watergate, Nixon, Clinton, the Profumo affair, John Prescott: every political figure or incident offered up for criticism and investigation has chipped away the polished veneer of western politics, exposing the corrosion underneath.
Understanding the flaws and rot inherent in our systems may be the only real freedom left.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#266293 - 06/25/06 10:23 PM Re: Political Thread of Fury [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Cord -

Quote:

the increased freedom of the press, and the spread of the internet has lifted the veil of spin and image from a previously closed world




I know what you mean, but I don't really think that is true. The spin and veil is still there, just more subtle, which ironically makes it even harder to read. When you have politicians willfully blurring their points or making long-winded odes to nothing, it becomes increasing difficult for the un-motivated public to sift through the BS to find out what the hell they are talking about in the first place!

"Wait for the science to come in". What the hell? How much science do you need? Twisting facts is not science.

It's a shame when the "need for research" becomes just a stalling tactic to discredit REAL research.

But how many people will bother to educate themselves?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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