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#264849 - 06/19/06 11:19 PM To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops"
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Any technique advice from your own experience in LE?

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#264850 - 06/20/06 12:07 AM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Speedy,
you need to understand that a lot of what I do is not just aikido, but jujutsu and a lot of other "blended arts" as well. For instance, I teach 5 different ways of doing Sankyo, three of which are basically Chin Na methods. My system of jujutsu involves "spiraling energy" and using my methods, I can usually point someone's energy toward the ground and they go there... about as violently as I want them to. As an arrest technique, I would use a wrist pin, click on a handcuff, and then tell them to put their other hand behind their back as I cranked the one I had locked. Worked like a champ.

If you're disarming someone, don't focus on the weapon. Focus on their wrist, and gain control of that. If you're using a baton, don't hit their weapon with the baton, hit their wrist or the back of their hand, even with a backfist strike to open up their hand. I've had people tell me that you can't make someone open their hand, but they don't take well to me helping them close it either. Grab the inside of someone's fist and make their fist tighter, and you'll get immediate reactions.

The most common thing about setting someone up for an arrest is to keep them off balance. Basic judo training teaches that it only takes a few ounces of pressure at 90 degrees to your feet to knock you off balance, so use that to get somebody moving for your arrest techniques.

If you want to pull somebody off balance from the front, grab their wrist and pull it to your body, then grip under their elbow and pull it to the center of their body. As their elbow bends, lift it up, and you can slide into a triangle lock that miraclously looks like shiho nage.

Like I said in my PM to you, most arrests depend on getting the suspect on the ground and then applying body weight in "uncomfortable places" for forced compliance. If you're interested in some of the jujutsu ideas, you might need a little schooling in "spiraling energy". Go to my web community at http://groups.msn.com/MunenMusoRyuJujitsu and you will begin to see what the body acting like a spring is all about. It's in the "discussions" area.



Edited by wristtwister (06/20/06 12:09 AM)
_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#264851 - 06/20/06 08:14 AM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: wristtwister]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

If you want to pull somebody off balance from the front, grab their wrist and pull it to your body, then grip under their elbow and pull it to the center of their body. As their elbow bends, lift it up, and you can slide into a triangle lock that miraclously looks like shiho nage.




That sounds a bit like kuzushi there.
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Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#264852 - 06/20/06 01:22 PM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: wristtwister]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Cool advice, thanks!

I will definitely check out the website.

About the disarms, so what type of weapons did you have experience disarming? Just curious because I sort of lack full confidence in those techniques, someone else said it was really a last-ditch effort to do any muto-dor-type techniques.

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#264853 - 06/20/06 06:07 PM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: Leo_E_49]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Yes, it is kuzushi, but also an executable throw from simple body mechanics. Once the arm is folded backwards, its just a matter of reaching over and gripping the wrist to have them in shiho nage. I actually do the "elbow pull" with the back of my hand so my hand is open to "receive their wrist"...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#264854 - 06/20/06 06:14 PM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

About the disarms, so what type of weapons did you have experience disarming?




Mostly sticks and shanks (sharpened pieces of metal), a few knives. Any guns that showed up got turned over as soon as they saw down the barrel of that 12 gauge... it may not be pretty, but having them outgunned is a BIG benefit.

You'd be surprised how a sharp rap on the wrist with a nightstick will make people suddenly docile and easy to get along with... there's a nerve running down both outside and inside of the wrist, and when you poke it with a stick, people's minds focus right there.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#264855 - 06/22/06 04:45 PM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: wristtwister]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
I see.

I've always been interested in gun disarms, but I guess the only proven way is an "arms race" lol

By the way, what is it with cops and shottys, I know it's standard issue, but wouldn't they want something that doesn't "spread" and possibly catch innocent bystanders?

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#264856 - 06/22/06 06:19 PM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
You actually have a better chance of getting shot or shooting an innocent bystander if you're struggling to take a gun away from someone than the deal with the shotgun. I have some "executive decision" takeaways that will kill the perp, but most of them will stand down if they're staring down that big ole hole of a 12 gauge. Nobody mistakes hearing a shotgun "rack" when you throw one in the chamber either.

We used those because they had maximum short range knockdown power with limited penetration range. The spread on one can be controlled by chokes and barrel lengths, but you just can't generate that knockdown power with a pistol without using a shell that might go through your attacker and then through the wall and kill somebody watching television three apartments away.

I can't tell you how many people my partner and I picked up by knocking on a door where a fugitive was, and then shoving a shotgun barrel through the crack when they peeped out to see who it was... and close range, a shotgun will definitely make a mess.

I carried a .357 when I was on the force, but I had to shoot .38's in it. Anything else was "excessive force" by department rules unless we were in a "remote setting" like a pier, or country road. Those high power pistols will shoot all the way through an apartment house, so the shotguns were used to limit any "innocent bystanders".

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#264857 - 06/22/06 07:13 PM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: wristtwister]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
I heard about "frangibles" you guys were experimenting with, but is that just tresting or is it out in use now? That sounded like a good idea when I heard of it.

Also.... I don't know about shotguns because at close range it's like exploding a watermelon... sorry to be graphic but I don't know, it just seems sort of excessive at point blank. But since you take advantage of the fear more than actual shooting, I can see how that would work better.

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#264858 - 06/22/06 08:50 PM Re: To wristtwister and other "Aiki-Cops" [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
There are a lot of percussion type projectiles that can be used with a shotgun now, so you get the "short term" force delivery without the penetration, and "keeping the suspect guessing" about what you've got is also a 'fear factor'. I might not be too worried walking into a knockdown bag, but a 00 buckshot shell is a killer at shotgun range, so unless you're loaded with stupid, you'll give way against a shotgun. They blow a BIG hole, and if it's far enough back to spread, SEVERAL big holes.

As for frangibles, go to http://www.precisionammo.com/ and you can download a catalog that describes how they're made. They are a good idea, but I personally would rather depend on something that I know is solid... I'm not into shooting a face full of dust at somebody, if you know what I mean. If I shoot somebody, I want it to work the way it's supposed to...


Edited by wristtwister (06/22/06 09:20 PM)
_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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