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#262851 - 06/13/06 05:37 PM US Modern Army Combatives Program
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
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#262852 - 06/13/06 11:36 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Leo_E_49]
mean_fighter Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 160
That was pretty good vid!

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#262853 - 06/15/06 09:36 AM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Leo_E_49]
GuitarNinja Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 182
Id like to see what the other levels incorporate....
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#262854 - 06/15/06 09:42 AM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: mean_fighter]
JimH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 17
Loc: New York
This is a great video if one wanteed to learn MMA/GBJJ,but it is not usable as a form of battlefield combatives.

No one wants to go to the ground especially if a Police officer or Military troop loaded up with gear,such as vest,pistol belts, with cuffs,pistol,mags,mace,radio,baton just as a minimum.

If one goes to the ground the objest is to get back up and continue,not stay on the ground and continue or hold until help arrives.

Just my two cents

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#262855 - 06/15/06 09:52 AM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: JimH]
JimH Offline
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Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 17
Loc: New York
The other levels do start to bring the troops to a level of combatives,again the techniques taught are not done with gear on,they do get to wear an equipment belt but it is left open so they can roll and work on the ground.

Most troops do not reach the upper levels of the course,(most in Iraq now have what is seen on the video only)

The Military is in the process of changing the material.

Many see MMA(sport) as street applicable for all,but when one has on a vest,that restricts breathing and movement,a pistol belt loaded with gear and a weapon to protect,ground fighting is a last option and an officer should not stay on the ground fighting,they need to get back to their feet as quickly as possibe.

Ground fighting for Officers and military should consist of exposure to being taken down and then how to get up,not pin,submit or hold an opponent on the ground.

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#262856 - 06/15/06 12:27 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: JimH]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
I think this has been discussed before.

The reasoning behind integrating BJJ and Grappling at the fundamental level in training is simple. It is easier and offers the opportunity for pessure testing via force on force exercises. It requires no special gear and it develops a fighting spirit. It also offers unit commanders the unique opportunity to have his soldiers compete without the significant risk of injury associated with other competitive combatives events.

The integration of BJJ into the Army Combatives program is modeled after Military Sambo. Both offer combatives training with an athletic, competitive component. The goal was to mirror the effectiveness of Sambo in that respect.

The result is that now we have wide spread exposure to combatives training and it is a part of regular training as opposed to the manual collecting dust on a shelf. The old book may have been more battlefield specific in technique, but was largely ignored due to it's difficulty in integration. Soldiers had no confidence in the material as they could not test it.

As far as the Army changing the material? The Army is not quick to change anything and the program is still in the early stages, phase 1 which includes grappling. Phase 2 I am told returns to the feet and includes many of the strikes seen in the old manual as well as a training methodology drawn from Muay Thai. Phase 3 incorporates weapons, both improvised and not.


Edited by Fletch1 (06/15/06 12:33 PM)
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#262857 - 06/15/06 01:48 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Fletch1]
JimH Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 17
Loc: New York
Fletch,
I agree with your points:
The program was made to instill confidence
Provide an engagement in a sport based on contact
To provide exercise and a competitive nature
But
It is not combatives,it is sport based contact.
The first phase was not put out to be the Battlefield combatives phase,it was put out to be the first step,the ground work towards the advanced material(no pun on ground work intended) and the sad part is many do not get the other levels.

The second and third phase are more along the lines of previous Combatives training that the Army had.

The Military is incorporating a form of battlefield training as part of the work up phase prior to deployment,in units not provided this training some trained members are developing their own unit training.

As Far as Police:
Ground and BJJ phase should not be a desired intent.

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#262858 - 06/15/06 09:15 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: JimH]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Point taken.

For SD purposes, BJJ and Ground is not necessarily the desired intent. For OOTW (Operations Other Than War) which seems to be a growing reality, the necessity to take people down and control them or injure them to degree becomes part of the secondary mission.

Thanks for your insight.
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#262859 - 06/16/06 06:43 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Leo_E_49]
White_Fox Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 57
That video was great!!!!!!!!! thanks for that mate!!!!!
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#262860 - 01/24/07 08:34 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Fletch1]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Fletch, nothing personal, but I don't feel like taking 5-8 weeks total time out of my life to get to the level I should be at. If my unit really wants me to do this, they need to take it seriously enough to dedicate reasonable time to training. Personally, knife fighting and bayonet training are far more valuable.

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