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#260303 - 06/10/06 01:34 AM Re: Return to the Source [Re: Kosh]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Sin is defined/created by society. Like Trevek said, what is good and bad is a moral code set by society. If no one judges, there is no good or bad.




That's only if you're atheistic - then you say God defines what is sin, because the theistic definition of sin if "rebellion against God's will".

But the non-judgemental part is still valid, at least in most religions. Jesus said "Do not judge so that you will not be judged."

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#260304 - 06/10/06 02:36 AM Re: Return to the Source [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I think laws were given to us by God, but for practical reasons (That's if you believe in God I guess, let's not turn this into a theist vs. atheist thread htough, please). Look at any of the ten commandments for example, or any other laws of hte bible. They all have practical reasons.
However, I see what you're saying. Watch the movie "the God's must be crazy." It's all about that sort of thing.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#260305 - 06/10/06 04:43 AM Re: Return to the Source [Re: Stormdragon]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
O I don't intend to turn this into a "God vs. Atheist" thing.

That's why when I spoke on them I spoke on them as seperate discussions, in a sense.

We have to keep this from being a "There is/isn't a God" thread and yet we can't leave the belief in God out of the equation and still keep this thread valid.

So I'll adress both (note the "theistic" and "atheistic" responses)

As for "The Gods Must be Crazy" I must have been too young when I watched it, I just remembered laughing at the kids hitting each other lol

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#260306 - 06/10/06 09:52 AM Re: Return to the Source [Re: Stormdragon]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Let's keep the topic 'what return to the source' a little more on mutual ground. It isn't about focusing on an religion, and it gets that way...the thread will be closed.

Back on topic please.

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#260307 - 06/10/06 09:02 PM Re: Return to the Source [Re: harlan]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
To get back to the original question, or "return to the source" , I would like to give you my experience.

I started out in Isshin Ryu karate and Judo in 1962. Since then, I've studied Shotokan, Shuri Ryu, TKD, jujutsu, Aikido, sword, Kyudo, Kong Soo Do, and back to Isshin Ryu.
Each art I studied, I tried to get "as close to the source" of the development of the art as I could.

I wouldn't study with "just anybody"... I purposefully sought out people who had studied with Shimabuku Sensei in Isshin Ryu, Nishiyama in Shotokan, Trias in Shuri Ryu, etc. to get "as close to the source" as existed in the style and could be visited here. In Aikido, my teachers were deshis with Tohei and ukes for Ueshiba Sensei.

When you say "return to the source" to me, it means that you get as close to the origination of the art as possible. Understanding karate from Shimabuku Sensei's and Nishiyama Sensei's perspectives, Aikido from Ueshiba and Tohei's perspectives, gives you a full grasp of what their arts were developed to do and accomplish.

My purpose in training with the people I've trained with and under, is to get that perspective... and while I've trained with many hundreds of others (if not thousands), I have kept my information base as close to the originators of the styles and arts as possible... which is probably why I have such an attitude about "junk" martial arts and "xtreme" junk MA.

Gaining the perspective of the founder of a martial art gives you a whole different picture of what constitutes "legitimate" technique and "junk" techniques... and it might surprise you to find out just how violent many of these "peaceful" arts were. While the "do" form of martial arts is a personal search for one's path, the "jitsu" form of the arts is the search for perfection of technique... and many of the old ones used brutality to mold character. Understanding that, you have a different perspective yourself...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#260308 - 07/21/06 01:46 PM Re: Return to the Source [Re: wristtwister]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
bump

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#260309 - 07/22/06 08:14 AM Re: Return to the Source [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
When I was young,
I thought of changing the world,
But when I realised,
The world was not going to change,
I thought of changing my country;
But when I realised,
My country was not going to change,
I thought of changing my family;
But when I realised,
My family was not going to change,
I thought of changing my dog;
But when I realised,
My dog was not going to change,
I left them all alone.
Now on my death bed,
I realised that,
Perhaps if I had changed myself first?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#260310 - 08/17/06 01:22 PM Re: Return to the Source [Re: harlan]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

'Return to the source'.

What does it mean to/for you?




aum.

"Would you know it if you saw it"
"Yes, no, I don't know .. what if I did see it and I didn't know it .. what if it was the chicken?"

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#260311 - 08/17/06 01:25 PM Re: Return to the Source [Re: Stormdragon]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

So then, an extension of that is, why were laws and rules created or sent to us in the first place? And what about the laws of nature which allow our species and at htis poit, all other species to continue to survive?
Only kill other creatures or people in self defense or the defense of your family, innocent people, territory or food supplies, etc., or, in the case of animal life, for needed food.

3. Only take the amount of resources form the world that you actually need, never too much or too little; you may take more than you need only if everyone in your community has had their fair share and agree to allow you to have extra and if that extra is non-perishable.

4. Use everything you take from the world and nature. Never waste anything.

5. Allow all other creatures access to food supplies and needed physical resources. Never deny them of what they need, except when hunting them for needed food.

6. Everyone in the community has to do their share of work for the community. Everyone has a job or place within the community.

7. Never take anything that has been rightfully claimed by another person or animal.




The problem here lays in that people are lazy. This assumes that everyone will do their part, always. There will always be that one person who will get the ball rolling and think ... why does he get the same amount of milk I do? I'm the one that milks the cow.

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