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#260104 - 01/07/07 12:21 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: TeK9]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Tek, when I was in CH clubs in UK we did a lot of 'freestyle' stuff, including blitz attacks etc with the hands.

One technique I was shown (never used it though) was to wade in with a blitz and slap your own shoulder really loud then jump around like you'd scored.

Fools the ref. If it doesn't the other guy stands still dumbfounded long enough for you to score for real.
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#260105 - 05/28/07 12:04 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: trevek]
ITFJJ Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 88
Loc: Montréal
Quote:

Tek, when I was in CH clubs in UK we did a lot of 'freestyle' stuff, including blitz attacks etc with the hands.

One technique I was shown (never used it though) was to wade in with a blitz and slap your own shoulder really loud then jump around like you'd scored.

Fools the ref. If it doesn't the other guy stands still dumbfounded long enough for you to score for real.




This is why I'm not a big fan of MA for "sport." It naturally encourages cheating.

I got in a fair amount of hot water with my instructors once because I was watching another club out point our junior black belts by throwing 2-3 kicks then clinching until the ref broke them up, then doing it again. The kicks had no real effect, but would score a point or two.

Our students were trying to place their kicks/punches in a well thought-out attack and were getting smothered by the clinch. Unfortunately, the ref seemed to think that was perfectly acceptable.

I got so aggrevated by it that I coached one of our students to hip throw his opponent out of the ring by simply stepping back and pivoting. The head instructor overheard and "redirected" both the student and me. He would have gotten a warning, but he likely would have gone on to win the match because his opponent wouldn't have liked being thrown on the floor very much.

Neither of those two strategies was very "sporting" but I'd argue that my idea was more valid as a MA technique.
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#260106 - 05/29/07 07:26 AM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: ITFJJ]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Guys respectfully I give my observations

I watched the WTF championships on Eurosport from China and don't understand why the arms are left dangling no blocking/deflecting. Also why don't hand strikes count either. I am an ex Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan stylist. This is where I'm coming from on this thread. To be honest I thought it was just ....bounce, bounce, bounce.....Kick and shout....bounce, bounce.....

My arguement for saying you should be taking kicks to your arms etc even as it hurts after 3 x 3 mins rounds of course it does, Muay Thai and Kyukoshin fighters have been doing it for years.

Before you want to challenge me I think TKD is an excellent art and very practical - I suppose its the same as Sport Karate is nothing like Traditional Karate.

But the public see the competitions not the training the fighter goes through - are there no competitions where TKD Hyungs, 1-step, 3-step etc. are displayed, this I believe would give a better example on how effective TKD truely is.

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#260107 - 05/30/07 08:10 AM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: Dobbersky]
ITFJJ Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 88
Loc: Montréal
I agree completely with the frustration over the lack of blocking. Because there is no danger of being punched to the head or virtually being punched at all, there is no value in keeping a guard with the hands. Movement to avoid hits or turning the body to take the kick on the outside of the arm is effective for this style of sparring.

Although the rules have not changed, ITF is starting to go this way as well, much to my dissapointment. I had one of the other black belts in my new club (after I complimented his kicking speed) tell me that he sees punching as useless, because he will get 3 points for the kick to the head vs a 1 for punch. Then again, you should have seen the look on his face when I tagged him with a right hook to the head, I think he may have re-discovered the usefulness of hand-speed and punching technique

But then again, I lost that match on points
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#260108 - 05/30/07 10:13 AM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: ITFJJ]
Happy Birthday TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I like sparring Olympic style rules. I personally don't like head shots. In my opinion when in competition, head shots are far to easy to hit with the hands. I mean a simple quick jab will score you a point. I don't think it's an accurate description of how it would work in real combat.

On the other hand for sparring, I love head shots providing I'm using gloves and proper safety gear, for instance I love boxing, my brother and I put on 12 oz. gloves and we go at it. We also like kick boxing as well. We train in all sorts of sparring styles in order to workout out different ranges of combat.

For learning how to use your kicks and footwork, I really like Olympic style sparring. Like any sort of sparring there are drawbacks because of the limitations to the rules. but what better way to improve your kicks that this kind of sparring.

For open hand strikes I really enjoy step sparring, my brother and I try to mix it up a little so the training is more alive, but we have to be really careful when open hand striking we can't just use NHB rules otherwise we end up with scratches, bruises and accidental eye gouges.

For me I enjoy sparring and the sport aspect, however, the major downfall to competition and this goes for any MA. Is that the focus becomes not on improving your skill versus an opponenet of which you rarely ever spar with, but the main focus is now on winning. When competitors do not focus on improvement of skill, instead they exploit the rules of competition in order to win. Either counting points or running out the clock. Competition is good, sport is bad. Sport means you must win. You can compete to win, but I prefer to compete to improve.

That is why the Olympic games suck, either watching boxing or TKD. These guys are running out the clock, counting points...

The focus on sports and winning is what is ruining martial arts.
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"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
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#260109 - 05/30/07 10:37 AM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: TeK9]
Happy Birthday TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Dobbersky, I read your profile, you opened a school last year? How is it going so far? What style are you teaching? Are you incorporating your TSD kicks along with your karate?
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#260110 - 06/02/07 10:39 AM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: ITFJJ]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
It's not so much the cheating that worries me, it's the unrealistic cheating. I saw one guy who used the 'slap' technique and then as soon as he'd done it he ran around waving his arms and cheering (whether technique was legit or not). I'd have loved to have seen what happened when he did it on the street and suddenly realised there was no ref to award him the point and the other guy was using his head as a dancefloor.

My old wrestling coach used to comment that in wrestling the way to stop a cheat was to get your illegal move in first, where the ref couldn't see it.
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See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

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