FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 30 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TomRosenberg, jessylin, play, Keith_G, LeroyCFischer
22937 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 2
jwwmantis 2
Beefcake 1
LeroyCFischer 1
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
New Topics
Chum Kiu's double Tan Sau motion
by futsaowingchun
Today at 10:08 AM
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
2015 Master Yang Jwing-Ming Seminar
by jwwmantis
12/05/14 10:36 PM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by
12/27/06 11:43 AM
Your true goal
by
03/03/06 07:16 AM
Recent Posts
Chum Kiu's double Tan Sau motion
by futsaowingchun
Today at 10:08 AM
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
Your true goal
by Beefcake
12/11/14 02:44 AM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by LeroyCFischer
12/04/14 02:07 AM
Forum Stats
22937 Members
36 Forums
35592 Topics
432527 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#260084 - 06/04/06 06:20 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: TeK9]
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
I wish there would be a lot more KOs and painful TKOs from now on.


Top
#260085 - 06/05/06 01:51 AM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: Supremor]
theoldone Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 172
Quote:

However, my problem is with this specific training program.




I see what you mean, Supremor. If by "this specific training program" you meant the training that was shown on that video, it should not pose a problem as long as they don't make any wild claims to being some super ninja-turtle ultimate self-defense program.

That training is geared toward the specifics of a particular scenario: competition. If they start referring to that competition program as a self-defense program, THEN it would be a problem.

If they want to run a self-defense program, then they would have to come up with another program geared for the specifics of the self-defense scenario.

We can't really judge the feasibility or effectiveness of the former by evaluating it against the criteria for the latter.

Quote:


The USA TKD team has only one purpose- to win medals. To do this it need have no concern over whether what it's teaching is useful to Self Defense. Not only this, but many of the strategies that are employed by the trainers are specifically related to winning tournament taekwondo under olympic rules.

What I am trying to point out, is that the bottom line of this centre of excellence is sport. Self defense is not even considered at this place. We are talking about high level sport here, not high level fighting.





I don't think I've seen (based on that video) where they claim to be teaching self-defense. If it's a center of excellence set up for training athletes for competition, of course their training focus would be geared towards strategies and methodologies that help to win medals.

After all, it IS the USA TKD team, not the ABC Self-Defense School. They compete in sport Taekwondo competitions. They're not competing in self-defense death matches. To concentrate their training in competitive methods would only be logical.

I believe the original question by ChronicGMV was "is this how it is with the sports side of Taekwondo?", and not "is this a good way to learn self-defense?". You're looking at the sport program through the lens of self-defence. Those are two seperate subject matters (for another day, thank heavens)


Quote:


It can be very beneficial, IF it is taught along with other skills- more hand work, a splattering of grappling and groundfighting etc.




Still looking at a sport through self-defense lenses. No problem, though, because I, too, believe in handwork, grappling and groundfighting as good fighting skills. Just not so great for WTF competitions (I was once penalized for throwing my opponent with a hip-throw because he kept chest-bumping and clinching with me. Fortunately, I won at the end)

Quote:

Perhaps I should not have used the term "worse"




Perhaps. But worse than ballet? Man, ballet is tough!

Quote:

But someone who has only trained TKD for sport is setting themselves up for a serious fall.




Not if they know what they're getting into: sports. Someone joining a shooting club for recreation and sport would not (hopefully) mistake themselves for an SAS or SEALs operative. But I agree that if a sport Taekwondoist makes the mistake of thinking that because he's had some success in sport Taekwondo that he's now the ultimate self-defense fighter, then yes, he would be in for a serious fall.

Other than that, "sun is warm, grass is green, everything OK" (Mr. Miyagi)
_________________________
We Are Beautiful, Temporary Patterns

Top
#260086 - 06/05/06 03:22 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: theoldone]
bin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 169
Loc: NJ, USA
You still aren't getting it. There is no other way of self defense training other than sparring. The sparring makes the style. You disisng WTF competition basically means you are dissing WTF TKD in general.

Don't give me that "o but i-do prearranged sparring with limited practicality so im better than WTF competitors". The sparring makes the style. Don't claim YOUR particular WTF or whatever dojang does some sort of other SD exercise. The only SD exercise is sparring. I've said it once and I've said it again. You either think WTF TKD is crap or not. You're either with us or against us. There is none of this in-between "but we train competition AND SD" crap. The sparring (competition) makes the style. If you think WTF TKD sparring is unrealistic than you are also saying WTF TKD itself is unrealistic which I think is totally false.

Top
#260087 - 06/05/06 03:27 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: bin]
ChronicGMV Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 96
Loc: Miami, Florida
Dude, the sparring WTF (WE) competitors do is sport (in competition, that is. I don't know what you do in your dojang). Not self-defense.


Edited by ChronicGMV (06/05/06 03:34 PM)

Top
#260088 - 06/05/06 03:31 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: bin]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

I've said it once and I've said it again. You either think WTF TKD is crap or not. You're either with us or against us. There is none of this in-between "but we train competition AND SD" crap.




Then you are very simplistic bin. Example: Carrots are good for you. End of story. Therefore it is alright to only eat carrots. Doesn't quite work now does it?

Quote:

Don't give me that "o but i-do prearranged sparring with limited practicality so im better than WTF competitors". The sparring makes the style. Don't claim YOUR particular WTF or whatever dojang does some sort of other SD exercise.




Now I have never said anything of the sort bin. Indeed if you had read my post, you would have realised that I pointed to other types of sparring- allowing groundwork, grappling etc. Besides, I think that most syles train other SD than sparring. Krav Maga, a highly effective art, trains far less sparring than TKD.

BTW:

Top
#260089 - 06/05/06 03:37 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: bin]
theoldone Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 172
bin,

Your post's title indicated you were replying to my post. Was your reply directed to me?

Quote:

You still aren't getting it. There is no other way of self defense training other than sparring. The sparring makes the style. You disisng WTF competition basically means you are dissing WTF TKD in general.

Don't give me that "o but i-do prearranged sparring with limited practicality so im better than WTF competitors". The sparring makes the style. Don't claim YOUR particular WTF or whatever dojang does some sort of other SD exercise. The only SD exercise is sparring. I've said it once and I've said it again. You either think WTF TKD is crap or not. You're either with us or against us. There is none of this in-between "but we train competition AND SD" crap. The sparring (competition) makes the style. If you think WTF TKD sparring is unrealistic than you are also saying WTF TKD itself is unrealistic which I think is totally false.


_________________________
We Are Beautiful, Temporary Patterns

Top
#260090 - 06/05/06 05:43 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: bin]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

You still aren't getting it. There is no other way of self defense training other than sparring.[ The sparring makes the style. You disisng WTF competition basically means you are dissing WTF TKD in general.




Bin, you still are not getting it. We all understand that sparring is an excellent training tool for self defense but it is far from the only effective tool. Techniques need to be broken down into their simplest forms so that you can practice those individual techniques to make them better so that when you incorporate them together they are more effective. Understanding your opponent and their martial arts will also make you better (i.e. a stand up fighter learning a grappler's skills so as to defend against them; and vise versa). Repetition of techniques to develop muscle memory is an important tool. And let us not forget the most important one, your mind set. All the skill in the world mean nothing unless you are in the right mind set.

From your posts I am interpreting that you are saying that WTF Olympic Sport Sparring is the type of sparring that you are talking about. If that is the case then I 100% disagree again. Am I dissing WTF Taekwondo because I say this absolutely 100% not.

Quote:

Don't give me that "o but i-do prearranged sparring with limited practicality so im better than WTF competitors". The sparring makes the style. Don't claim YOUR particular WTF or whatever dojang does some sort of other SD exercise. The only SD exercise is sparring. I've said it once and I've said it again. You either think WTF TKD is crap or not. You're either with us or against us. There is none of this in-between "but we train competition AND SD" crap. The sparring (competition) makes the style. If you think WTF TKD sparring is unrealistic than you are also saying WTF TKD itself is unrealistic which I think is totally false.




Bin, I don't know who peed in your Corn Flakes this morning, or any other morning for that matter, but you have to take a breath and calm down. You are asking a multitude of questions that when people try to answer you get all offensive. You are continually questioning Taekwondo's effectiveness but then you lash out at anybody that even questions something small. Your comment about "either you think WTF Taekwondo is crap or not" is just unrealistic as I'm sure that nobody questions the effectiveness of many of its kicks even without really knowing much about Taekwondo, but if they took the time to learn more about it then they would appreciate many more things. With your attitude you don't make it appealing to want to take a look at it more because you are a poor representation of the art itself.

The Olympic Sport Sparring that WTF Taekwondo is famous for does not make the style but it is a part of it. Because I don't sport spar this way does that mean I'm crap again no. Do I spar, you better believe I do and probably more effective sparring then yourself that includes stand up to take down to grappling. Are other WTF Taekwondo schools doing this I am sure there are many but small in comparison to the many sports orientated schools that are out there. I'm not sports orientated and that doesn't make my Taekwondo any less effective nor does it make me any less a WTF practitioner. You train your way and I will train my way and we will let everybody else train the way they want and we will all accept this.

There is no "either you are with us or without us" crap; don't put up walls that only you fit into. Either you understand this or you don't either you comply with or you don't either you use more courtesy and respect with everybody or you don't. And if you don't then just let me know and we can all be done with this once and for all. And be careful how you respond to this.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
#260091 - 06/05/06 08:24 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: theoldone]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
I really loved knocking out my opponent, at the NM, AAU state championships, who had his hands down. It is used as a bateing technique, it is risky, and cocky. I and my school, as well as many others I have seen, do not recommend keeping your hands down. I like both hands up, and when kicking (because of the hip twisting) at least one if not two hands up!!!!
_________________________
"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

Top
#260092 - 06/05/06 08:29 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: Mike_L]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
Also stop the TKD effective? threads damn it, it is the martial artist not the art, and if used correctly, WTF taekwondo if effectuve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

Top
#260093 - 06/05/06 08:31 PM Re: The Sport Side of Taekwondo [Re: Mike_L]
ChronicGMV Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 96
Loc: Miami, Florida
C'mon guys, it was a fun thread with a nice vid, but now it's been turned into another one of bin's WTF threads.

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga