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#259933 - 06/04/06 06:34 AM are you serious.....
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Doing this with a sword/bokken??????

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6737089295844258387&q=kenjutsu

Also on top of that, a couple people had a staff, sticks ........ and one was using a hockey stick ... as a naginata???



P.S. I love how it starts with throwing a bokken into the grass/dirt

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#259934 - 06/04/06 06:50 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4713641525503529255&q=kenjutsu

WOW

Skip to 7:45 in the video (just slide the arrow down)

After the credits they decide to "play samurai" by running in fiends and climbing walls and smashing their bokken into bushes.

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#259935 - 06/04/06 07:44 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
such retardednes....

HE SAYS HE'S STARTING AN ONLINE DOJO

I gave this idiot a piece of my mind here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWRFO3F-jQQ

I'm "SeriousDude52"

HE IS TRYING TO CON PEOPLE INTO HIS """"INTERNET SCHOOL""""

What a punk.

I can't let it slide "teaching" swords... if it was playing the guitar or gardening whatever, but when it comes to swords it could be dangerous with such an idiotic "teacher", Can you imagine people twirling a shinken like a cheerleader and cutting themselves? Not hard with that stupid technique

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#259936 - 06/04/06 10:23 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
PaulHart Offline
banned member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 192
Loc: The Real
Rolling on the wet ground laughing my head off, this has to be a joke, right? They must have erased your comment because it's not there. Looks like a bunch of kids who watched to much XMA and do not have a clue.
_________________________
Paul Hart http://allshorin.org

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#259937 - 06/04/06 01:14 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: PaulHart]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
This a prime example of what is known as sword twirling. He would be big on the XMA and nother like minded kuroddy tournaments. But what he's doing bears no resmblance to any variety or flavor of JSA that I've ever seen. Looks more like the baton twirlers you see in front of marching bands.

There is definite skill there I couldn't do what he's doing, but it's just sword twirling skill. If faced by someone like that in a life and death situation, I'd probably just step up and cut him down ignoring his sword altogether. He clearly doesn't have the control or power to pull off a good cut in response to an attack by another swordsman.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#259938 - 06/04/06 02:46 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Nothing I haven't seen from my high school drumline. These guys weren't even keeping a rhythm with a heavy drum while doing such.

I admit, there are times I swing my foils around like a madman, either to warm up my wrist or to show off (my left wrist is double jointed, so it can be slightly impressive). However, I would be the first to admit that it is all theatrics and fooling around. Never would I do such with anything resembling a real blade, and I would never pretend that it was real fencing.

Though, there was one time that I won by spining my blade in a sideways helicopter motion. When I started that, my opponent stopped, obviously thinking "what the heck is he doing". I stopped spinning the blade and impaled her in about half a second. It was a one shot thing that will never work again and only worked that one time because she thought I was crazy and underestimated me.

As for the video, join a circus where you can put those skills to good use, as there is certainly none in the martial arts. A rapier would have an even easier time of beating this guy than a shinkin. Simply lunge from 8 feet out while the guy has his guard protecting him from the sky.


Edited by Benjamin1986 (06/04/06 02:50 PM)
_________________________
Fencing Club at UH

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#259939 - 06/04/06 05:59 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Benjamin1986]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
Can't wait till he PWNZ all of you..

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#259940 - 06/04/06 06:13 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: PaulHart]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Rolling on the wet ground laughing my head off, this has to be a joke, right? They must have erased your comment because it's not there. Looks like a bunch of kids who watched to much XMA and do not have a clue.




LOL look at what he put up:
Quote:

we hav many keen to be members from around the world.. from kendo and kenjutsu pro's .. to guys who hav never lifted a sword.. This is nothing about money... just a site to be helful, possibly unite sword lovers together, and to learn from each other.. pls dont belittle us as we hav only good intentions..



Any more angry comments will just be deleted, grow up and leave us alone if you have a problem..




hahah I posted the truth about his "twirling" on every single one of his videos

Not only JSA, but with any form of a long swords there is no school in the world that twirls, only with short swords they may find some schools.

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#259941 - 06/04/06 06:15 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Benjamin1986]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

A rapier would have an even easier time of beating this guy than a shinkin. Simply lunge from 8 feet out while the guy has his guard protecting him from the sky.




LOL dude anyone with a baseball bat could have knocked that crap out of his hands while he was doing his little cheerleader routine.

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#259942 - 06/04/06 07:44 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
OMG he sent me 3 threatening emails, (I will censor cuss words by replacing them with the first letter then a dash)

Quote:

You are a complete twat.. id f--kin kill u if i knew where you lived or could be arsed to deal with a sh-t like you..
Just 3 points before i tell you to f--k off again..
1. The vids are extreme versions of what i do.. the website will not be just me or the other guys teaching that..
2. I hav had loads of request anyway of people asking me to show them how to move a sword quickly like that.. so u can feel free not to visit if think you no more already and dont want to learn.
3. And all those twirls if you must know, are two things, one.. to move me into the next position to strike quickly, ie. id cut off your legs when u think my swords heading for your face!, and two, its part of a meditation i use to strengthen and de-stress myself..
ps. you kill someone with a sword now a days u go to prison for the rest of your like, so i make it look good instead.. what the f--k is wrong with that... our art is called kenVert not Kenjutsu so f--k OFF!!!




Quote:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.. How many comments you sad f--k!! I am guna kill ya.. i hope your f--kin good with a sword or you better start sh-ting yourself, cus im guna search you comp address then come down a f--kin kill ya!!!!.. If kenjutsu is in the name of my vids, its because i did studied it for two years with a master, and 5 years self trained after.. so i decided to become a sort of free runner with it ... hence then name Freestyle.. you twat..
Kenjutsu is also in the title so its easier to search and find by my friends.. And i filmed the crazy stuff because its funner to watch.. you sh-t..
I tell ya i am guna cut off your feet just so you hav to walk like a gimp..!




Quote:

Ok man.. ive chilled now and i hope you hav too.. I just want to say something small as ive seen your lovely 'kendo world forums' chat..
The dojo is still just a planned thing, i planned it in the first place as i got fed up with requests to teach people sword form over their webcams..

I have no intention of naming the site or my art as kenjutsu as i have departed from its restricitve rules.. its simply called KenVert now..and i am fully aware of the safety involved in swordsmanship as i have been around swords for years.. Before any 'twirling' is seen, a strict series of basic techniques will be shown.. as i myself once learned..

And.. (though i might have sent you this already)

I practiced kenjutsu for 2 years under a master that luckily moved to our town.. He taught me 'one on one' near enough every night.. unluckily he then moved away.. leaving me to go in search of a dojo to continue training..

I found none anywhere near me, and never liked the idea of kendo.. so i self trained for the past 5 years .. so as well as the base moves i also trained the flashy side.. (as without a master to control me i found it more fun).. i take part in sword form contests and so flashy has become my primary thing.. The training vids on the new site however will be the controlled side.. the vids are two years old and i did them for fun, they are not a fair example at all..

ps.. the guy in the 'twirling' vids is all me.. and i hav no fear of facing you if you are so disrespectful again.. i would never bite at someone so pathetically without first asking any questions.. im ashamed at my response to you.. and im sorry.. i really hate the internet as its just full of ugly comments without any facts.







P.S. This is the other forum he's talking about:
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10353

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#259943 - 06/04/06 07:53 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

3. And all those twirls if you must know, are two things, one.. to move me into the next position to strike quickly, ie. id cut off your legs when u think my swords heading for your face!, and two, its part of a meditation i use to strengthen and de-stress myself.. ps. you kill someone with a sword now a days u go to prison for the rest of your like, so i make it look good instead.. what the f--k is wrong with that... our art is called kenVert not Kenjutsu so f--k OFF!!!




Some how you don't sound very "destressed" right now

P.S. It still says Kenjutsu on your videos

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#259944 - 06/04/06 08:00 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
I got $100 on the guy from the video. Come on guys start betting Speedy vs. ???




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#259945 - 06/04/06 08:35 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Mr_Heretik]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
That guy is a f--ing idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
"There is no such thing as Perfection... Only excellence"

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#259946 - 06/04/06 08:52 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Mike_L]
mercierarmory Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska
just wait till someone attempts one of his pretty moves and cuts an artery. I bet he will change his mind when he is in court attempting to explain his "online school".

As I said in the video posting (im sure hes gonna delete it soon) This is showmanship, not swordsmanship.

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#259947 - 06/04/06 11:49 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: mercierarmory]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
That's the sad scary truth of the matter. Someone sooner or later is gonna get seriously hurt doing stuff they see in this guy's video. Maybe even the guy in the video Even sadder is that I don't think there's any real point in posting negative comments on the guys video. It's dangerous to himself and others, especially since he is advocating it as something he could teach to others, but at least he is not claiming it is kenjutsu, or anything other than something he made up to look cool. Posting negative comments on his thread won't really help aleviate the danger. It'll just tick the guy off.

Speedy if you feel you must pursue this guy, don't do it here. He is not a member of this forum and has no way to respond. You've made your point. If you want to make it further, I'd suggest taking it over to the baffling budo forum at http;//www.e-budo.com
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#259948 - 06/05/06 02:57 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Believe it or not, he is on this forum and on kendo-world.com. In fact he's messaged me about these threads. Of course he won't post on this since then everyone would know who on this forum he is.

As for e-budo... IP ban.

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#259949 - 06/05/06 04:54 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
MonkeyDispenser Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 18
Loc: York, England
The guy obviously has a love for cinematics - you can tell that just from some of the other videos he's created. Also he seems quite a talented individual (I'm, talking about in general here, so don't flame me about the sword twirling!)

As I see it he's just doing what certain martial artists have been doing for many years and emphasising the 'Art' side of things. I'll be the first to admit that this is not a true representation of the martial arts themselves, but through movies it's the side we all have the most exposure to. Carry on like that and he could well have a career as a fight scene choreographer!

Hmmmm...the 'someone might hurt themselves' argument again. Sorry, I know you mean well but I just can't accept that. I'm sick of the nanny state and litigation society. If you're a 'responsible' adult and you want to play with sharp swords and you don't realise how dangerous thay are then the world would be better off without your gene's in it! I fully accept kids do not have this protective layer, but if they have access to swords then that's a question for the parents to answer. Bear in mind I'm speaking as the father of 3 kids - two of which automatically turn any long, hard object into a weapon at any opportunity!

(sorry, I'm ranting now and this is aimed at society in general, not just MA - apologies)

And don't get all upset, I'm just balancing out the argument a little - playing devils advocate if you like. Remember, it's you that brought him into the forum and tore a strip or two off. He didn't ask to be taken seriously by you.

What's my argument? I think I forgot somewhere in this post, but I just tend to like anyone that adds interest to life! The world needs more risk-takers and eccentrics. After all, where would the world be without Evil Knieval?!?

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#259950 - 06/05/06 06:20 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
^somehow I get this weird feeling you're part of TPRoach... but whatever

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#259951 - 06/05/06 06:53 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
MonkeyDispenser Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 18
Loc: York, England
No, honest, nothing to do with me guv. True, he's based in the UK but that's about as close as we've ever come. First I knew of him was when you posted the link.

Not sure what else I can do to prove it. You can see that I haven't posted much and apparently he's been around for a while. I think if you read my posts it would be quite obvious I'm not him. Three kids? He's a kid himself so I doubt he has any!

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#259952 - 06/05/06 10:40 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Speedy

If the guy hates the internet so much--and he actually SAYS.

"I really hate the internet"

Then why the heck did HE take the time to POST THEM THERE?

So he puts stuff on line that people think is a joke--and that the nets fault?

The ball stops with HIM.

People don't like the tough questions and comments they get in public?

THEN KEEP YOUR "TRAINING" PRIVATE!

Pretty simple concept.

Having the nerve to get pissy with people about HIS OWN ACTIONS make him a major tool.


Edited by cxt (06/05/06 10:42 AM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#259953 - 06/05/06 12:17 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Well, it was a lot of sword twirling but for some odd reason I sort of liked the video..........must have been the music.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#259954 - 06/05/06 03:14 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: schanne]
Sorin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Oxford, MS
Well you do have to give him credit for one thing. The guy does look like he puts a lot of effort into practicing. Even if most of what we see in the video isn't practical and couldn't be used in a fight.
(although how many people would get into a sword fight nowadays). I view it the same way with people doing all these flips and moves when they do forms. They're not practical and would almost never
be useful in a real situation aside from maybe an intimidation factor if the other fighter doesn't know any better.

As far as people getting hurt trying to imitate this video.. hmm well, there are always idiots out there who are going to see someone do something and try it themselves. No law, or organization is
going to stop that. That's always been true and always will be. Really the best someone can do is post a disclaimer saying do not perform these at home and hope the idiots that would attempt these things
can read.

The online dojo thing I would definitely say is not a good idea. Not just for this guy but for anyone. For any of the arts I would say you need a physical person there to show you what to do and correct
you when you do something wrong. Someone going to a site for training would be similar to someone reading a book and then saying their a master of said style because they read all about it and
did what the book said.

Sorin

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#259955 - 06/05/06 04:43 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

As far as people getting hurt trying to imitate this video.. hmm well, there are always idiots out there who are going to see someone do something and try it themselves. No law, or organization is
going to stop that. That's always been true and always will be. Really the best someone can do is post a disclaimer saying do not perform these at home and hope the idiots that would attempt these things
can read.




? Did three different people write this post?

Here you say it would just be idiots imitating it as if you didn't know he's having an online dojo, and next you talk about the online dojo?

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#259956 - 06/05/06 04:44 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: cxt]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
haha CXT I here you man

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#259957 - 06/05/06 06:09 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

Hmmmm...the 'someone might hurt themselves' argument again. Sorry, I know you mean well but I just can't accept that. I'm sick of the nanny state and litigation society.



then you obviously don't practice the Japanese sword arts yourself. Personally, I would like for people that do this sort of thing and boast about their prowess to take themselves out of the gene pool. I have absolutely no concern for them at all. The problem comes in when they hurt themselves badly. The newspapers get hold of it and sensationalize it. Some local politician hops on his soap box and uses that sensationalism to gain voter share. Pretty soon, you'll have idiots without a clue passing legislation that outlaws having a Japanese sword of any kind. They are currently trying to ban Japanese swords in both Australia and the UK. People like this particular doofus are directly contributing to that. Those of us in legitimate schools can try and explain the difference to the politicians, but when dweebs like this one say that they're "training" in a "dojo", then those that don't know better think that we are just like them.

Don't confuse concern about the fallout from what he's doing with concern for him personally.
_________________________
Paul

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#259958 - 06/05/06 06:32 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
ALready happened with nunchucks

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#259959 - 06/05/06 06:53 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
pgsmith

Ecellent point.

Most things don't happen in isolation and what people do often ripples out to effect A LOT more people than anyone ever thought.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#259960 - 06/05/06 07:25 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Sorin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Oxford, MS
Ah, I didn't really check much beyond his twirl
video til now. Now I see this online dojo one.
I'm just talking about the videos in general.
There's nothing wrong with him making videos
with him doing "sword twirls" but, I do have
to concede that once he starts labeling them
"training videos" and tells people to do this,
then it's a different story.

Sorin

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#259961 - 06/06/06 04:48 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
MonkeyDispenser Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 18
Loc: York, England
I don't really want to get into an argument about the state bowing down to public pressure, I don't think that's the point of this thread.

What I will say is that I think you're mixing your arguments to try and make a point. Suggesting that someone hurting themselves whilst attempting to learn a sword art via DVD would get swords banned is a bit of a leap. Admit it, if you saw a news item about some idiot cutting his leg off whilst messing around with a sword in his own home you'd laugh! And so would the majority of 'normal' people. Most people are just like you, and if they're not it's more likely that you're the unusual one I'm afraid. (Don't take offence, that's not meant as an insult.)

The real reason for the pressure to ban swords and knives (in the UK at least) is the large amount of knifings that we suffer in this country. These are people that usually have nothing to do with sharp objects getting stabbed by someone else. THAT is where your public pressure is coming from and I don't blame them. Unfortunately it affects everyone though.

Do you think guns were banned in this country because some idiot got injured using ammo he'd loaded (badly) at home? No, and whilst it was a fairly common occurance (gun clubs always had large posters telling you to use a professional service!) I never once saw it appear on the news!

I'm just a big fan of live and let live I suppose. If you think he's doing such a bad thing then start promoting your own, correct, teaching techniques. People respond really well to marketing! I think you'll find that people will naturally gravitate to the 'right' way. I have a lot of faith in people and we need to give everyone more credit.

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#259962 - 06/06/06 09:49 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Monkey

Actually what folks are getting at is that overall it HURTS.

You may be correct that the it would not be the ONLY reason that things get banned.

But putting pictures of bleeding kids all over the TV and the Newspapers is a pretty good way to sway the public.

The concern is that the bad PR taints us all.

And its a legit concern.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#259963 - 06/06/06 09:57 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:


What I will say is that I think you're mixing your arguments to try and make a point. Suggesting that someone hurting themselves whilst attempting to learn a sword art via DVD would get swords banned is a bit of a leap.





I wish you were right, but experience has shown otherwise

Quote:


Admit it, if you saw a news item about some idiot cutting his leg off whilst messing around with a sword in his own home you'd laugh! And so would the majority of 'normal' people.





The problem is that politicians are not normal people. They're always looking for some way to appeal to the voters, particularly on issues such as keeping children safe. That's how bans on nunchucks and varioius other "martial arts weapons" got passed. You think it was because of a rash of beatings involving nunchucks? These guys are just looking for an excuse. One more thing to talk about at re-election time. The sword arts community is very small and a voting block that politicians are not especially worried about pissing off.

Quote:


The real reason for the pressure to ban swords and knives (in the UK at least) is the large amount of knifings that we suffer in this country. These are people that usually have nothing to do with sharp objects getting stabbed by someone else. THAT is where your public pressure is coming from and I don't blame them. Unfortunately it affects everyone though.





What do knifings have to do with swords? My understanding is that swords are just as rarely used in assaults in the UK as they are here in the US. They want to ban them because they "might" be used in assaults. Not because they "are" used in assaults.

In the UK, this is just another wedge issue to be used to move voters from one block to another.

The problem is this. Say some idiot, like the one in the video, goes and gets himself killed doing some kind of stunt with his swords. Then the mother of that kid makes it her lifes work to get them banned. That kind of thing happens all the time. Then you have a small time lobbyist with a lot of press coverage. The press just loves that stuff. Then some politician decides to jump on the bandwagon. Pretty soon you've got proposed legistlation.

It's not nearly as farfetched as you think.
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#259964 - 06/06/06 10:28 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
shuri Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Central IL
yeah i had to look carefully but he was striking with the flat of the blade back of the blade blocking with the edge hitting logs absolutly no stances looks cool but that guy would probably do better as a jedi then a samurai and jedi dont exist
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#259965 - 06/06/06 11:50 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
MonkeyDispenser Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 18
Loc: York, England
Quote:

What do knifings have to do with swords? My understanding is that swords are just as rarely used in assaults in the UK as they are here in the US. They want to ban them because they "might" be used in assaults. Not because they "are" used in assaults.




True, and I think that was close to my point. Swords are being linked with anything pointy and it's the fact that short pointy objects are being used in assaults that could well mean a ban for all pointy objects.

But of all the pointy objects that are dangerous it's probably kitchen knives that pose the greater risk and it's unlikely they'll get banned! Often the high-end kitchen knives are built to a much higher specification than the 'fighting' knives these people can get hold of. Kitchen knives have to actually perform at what they do so it's in the interests of the manufacturers to make sure they don't break. 'Fighting' knives shouldn't be used (apparently!) so they often don't care about the quality - but I don't want to get into another discussion about King of Swords here

I guess I agree with a lot of what you say. Swords are in danger of being banned even though it's the other end of the spectrum that will prove to be the most dangerous to let people have access to (kitchen knives.) I just think the main reason lies somewhere else rather than with the guy at the top of this thread.

There was a TV news report last night about a knives amnesty we currently have in the UK. This included a couple of interviews with victims families, but we just don't tend to have the crusading reaction so much in the UK unless things go really pair shaped. Or maybe they just don't get as much air time at the moment. Or maybe I just autoomatically filter them out!

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#259966 - 06/06/06 02:45 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
Sorin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Oxford, MS
I find it odd that they're so gungho about banning swords
when guns are probably more used in crimes. Could it be
similar to the states? You have many people that like their
guns and polititians want to keep their vote, so they're
going after the swords to make it look like their doing
something perhaps?

Sorin

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#259967 - 06/06/06 02:56 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

I find it odd that they're so gungho about banning swords
when guns are probably more used in crimes. Could it be
similar to the states? You have many people that like their
guns and polititians want to keep their vote, so they're
going after the swords to make it look like their doing
something perhaps?

Sorin




It's called tyranny of the majority.


Edited by Charles Mahan (06/06/06 05:17 PM)
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#259968 - 06/06/06 04:20 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: shuri]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

looks cool but that guy would probably do better as a jedi then a samurai and jedi dont exist




Neither do Samurai, so he's completely out of luck!
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#259969 - 06/06/06 07:46 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Yeah, that's the jist of it on this side of the pond, Sorin. If you are for banning guns, you have the huge gun lobby on you pulling up that annoying little fact that gun control does not reduce crime. If you talk about banning guns in the South, you will get more people against it than you knew existed. However, if you restrict or ban swords, you don't have a huge lobby to counter it. Do you know of the martial art lobby? Perhaps that's the reason you can get a license to legally carry a pistol most places (in 40 out of 50 states), but you cannot carry a bowie knife on the street in any of the 50 states.

As has been stated before, restricting swords is a "I'm helping public safety" issue that doesn't bring a huge opposition to bear. It's a thing done to look like you care about the people, just like gun control, except without the opposition.
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#259970 - 06/07/06 01:02 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Admit it, if you saw a news item about some idiot cutting his leg off whilst messing around with a sword in his own home you'd laugh!




Only someone as appathetic and irresponsible as TPRoach could say something so immoral.

I don't care about the publicity. I don't care about the reputation of swords arts. I have little concern about it getting banned (I could just stick to bokken and iato, maybe even jo).

What I do care about is people getting hurt.

This website promotes 3 ways of getting hurt:
1. Financially - one of the two inevitable ways this website will hurt people.
2. Intellectually - you saw the video
3. Physically - NOT a laughing matter.

You would laugh at someone losing their leg? Sickening.

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#259971 - 06/07/06 01:08 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

I find it odd that they're so gungho about banning swords
when guns are probably more used in crimes. Could it be
similar to the states? You have many people that like their
guns and polititians want to keep their vote, so they're
going after the swords to make it look like their doing
something perhaps?

Sorin




This discussion entirely misses the point. It's not about banning swords. Go ahead, I will just use a jo if I have to. Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.

The issue is people getting hurt. See my last for for how they get hurt.

"Martial artists are peopel who train themselves to endure. Those who can't stand an empty stomach and use for theft the techniques they've devoted long years to ar not martial artists!!"
- Jiraiya-sama

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#259972 - 06/07/06 12:16 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.



Ummm ... no! I'm not sure where you came up with that, but that's not what those sensei that I've talked with have said. They were there, so I have to assume they knew what they were talking about.
Quote:

The issue is people getting hurt. See my last for for how they get hurt.



Perhaps for you, but that's definitely not the issue for me. People are stupid and hurt themselves all the time. That doesn't really concern me at all except for its impact upon my practice. Everyone needs to be responsible for themselves, and people should not need a father figure to tell them what's stupid and what isn't. My only concern is their impact upon the arts that I practice. If others wish to ride without helmets, stand up in the back of their moving pickups, pull wheelies on the freeway, jump off of buildings, they can go ahead and kill themselves for all of me. As long as their actions don't curtail my ability to do what I wish, then it's only evolution in action. When it starts impacting my freedoms, then I'm going to be perturbed about it.
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#259973 - 06/07/06 12:58 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
pgsmith

Excellent post above!

I had a conversation with a guy that runs a martial arts school that was BMW about he could not get get people to take his school "seriously."

I pointed out that his efforts to expand his business--by specfically targeting the "kids" market--flashy uniforms for the kids, doing martial arts at kids birthday parties--in place of a clown--putting 5 and 6 year old "black belts" on TV, dressing his students up in ertz "Power Ranger" costumes for demo's etc.

All excellent marketing tricks--BUT.

He had pretty much shot HIMSELF in the foot as far as "credibilty" went.

The look on his face as he realized that he traded the long term sustainabilty of his school for short term profits was instructive.

People need to realize that in the eyes of the public ALL "martial arts" are pretty much "the same" and what the jerks, skimmers, fly by nighters, ninjer "wannabees", urban "commandos" and "slash and burn" samurai are, in business terms "poisening the well" for the rest of us.

What people do, does NOT just effect them.


Edited by cxt (06/07/06 12:59 PM)
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#259974 - 06/07/06 05:59 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: cxt]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
"ninjers" LMAO
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#259975 - 06/07/06 07:10 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Quote:

Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.



Ummm ... no! I'm not sure where you came up with that, but that's not what those sensei that I've talked with have said. They were there, so I have to assume they knew what they were talking about.




Um... yes! For a time during the American occupation sword arts were banned. My family lived in Japan so I'm pretty sure both they and I know what we're talking about.


Quote:

Quote:

The issue is people getting hurt. See my last for for how they get hurt.



Perhaps for you, but that's definitely not the issue for me. People are stupid and hurt themselves all the time. That doesn't really concern me at all except for its impact upon my practice. Everyone needs to be responsible for themselves, and people should not need a father figure to tell them what's stupid and what isn't. My only concern is their impact upon the arts that I practice. If others wish to ride without helmets, stand up in the back of their moving pickups, pull wheelies on the freeway, jump off of buildings, they can go ahead and kill themselves for all of me. As long as their actions don't curtail my ability to do what I wish, then it's only evolution in action. When it starts impacting my freedoms, then I'm going to be perturbed about it.




How very ammoral of you. Well to repect your wishes, I will make an exception for you. I hope you hurt yourself and will gladly take your position of laughing at the irony.

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#259976 - 06/07/06 07:12 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: cxt]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

pgsmith

Excellent post above!

I had a conversation with a guy that runs a martial arts school that was BMW about he could not get get people to take his school "seriously."

I pointed out that his efforts to expand his business--by specfically targeting the "kids" market--flashy uniforms for the kids, doing martial arts at kids birthday parties--in place of a clown--putting 5 and 6 year old "black belts" on TV, dressing his students up in ertz "Power Ranger" costumes for demo's etc.

All excellent marketing tricks--BUT.

He had pretty much shot HIMSELF in the foot as far as "credibilty" went.

The look on his face as he realized that he traded the long term sustainabilty of his school for short term profits was instructive.

People need to realize that in the eyes of the public ALL "martial arts" are pretty much "the same" and what the jerks, skimmers, fly by nighters, ninjer "wannabees", urban "commandos" and "slash and burn" samurai are, in business terms "poisening the well" for the rest of us.

What people do, does NOT just effect them.




Did you even read his post? Did you even read my post?

I'm the one saying that one idiot "teacher" can affect the wallet, mind, and body of his idiotic sheep, and pgsmith is the one saying he doesn't care

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#259977 - 06/07/06 09:32 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Sorin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Oxford, MS
We can debate all day about whether we care about what this one guy does and whether it will affect everyone else,
but if he wants to make his videos or site there isn't anything we can do about it aside from tell people not to use them.
I understand your point that politicians can suck but I'm not completely convinced this one guy here will cause the ban
of all swords. Could it contribute to it if someone got hurt? Possibly. Will someone get hurt? Possibly. There's really
no way to know. I look at this guys sword trick videos to be somewhat similar to those martial arts gymnastic videos
that I've seen on the net. They tell you how to do all these fancy flips and jumps, but I haven't heard of anyone
protesting them much. If this guy makes his videos like the one that was posted, then he is doing tricks, not actually
teaching people how to use a sword. I'm sure a lot of people on this forum know the difference between using a sword
correctly and doing a useless twirl that has nothing to do with using it in any kind of fighting context. I suppose if you
wanted to do something, you could make a rival site that pointed out all of the problems with his and the videos,
although that would also give him some publicity at the same time. If not, we could always debate some more.

Sorin

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#259978 - 06/07/06 09:35 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.



Ummm ... no! I'm not sure where you came up with that, but that's not what those sensei that I've talked with have said. They were there, so I have to assume they knew what they were talking about.




Um... yes! For a time during the American occupation sword arts were banned. My family lived in Japan so I'm pretty sure both they and I know what we're talking about.





You kinda missed what Paul was talking about. Of course the sword arts were banned. The sword was used as a symbol of Japanese military power. Banning their practice during the occupation was a part of pacifying the populace. It's truly sad, but an understandable practice on the part of the occupation force.
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#259979 - 06/07/06 11:11 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Okay, what did Paul mean then?

Hard thing about forums - miscommunication

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#259980 - 06/07/06 11:52 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Well you made two assertions. One that practicing JSAs was banned for awhile under the occupation, and two that those who would normally have used swords turned to jos as a standin. That's the part he took issue with, and rightfully so.

Of course, even an official ban on JSA training doesn't mean it ceased altogether. It just went underground.


Edited by Charles Mahan (06/07/06 11:53 PM)
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#259981 - 06/08/06 12:35 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Well I'm not saying all JSA went to jo, I'm just saying some. I heard of a few practitioners using modified jo as bokken too, though that's uncommon

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#259982 - 06/08/06 12:52 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
But why would you do that? its like cutting an apple with a sword (to eat), it just is not nessacery.
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#259983 - 06/08/06 03:34 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Mike_L]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
huh?

I think you meant the opposite of that analogy?

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#259984 - 06/08/06 08:53 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Speedy

What?

In what way did I "diss" you and your post?

I was just agreeing with pgsmith.

Sorry if I did not also post an agreement with yours as well.

I do, of course, agree with your statements above as well.

Relax, no slight was meant or intended.

BTW, what I think pgsmith is saying is that if people CHOOSE to be idiots then there is little that he, or anyone else can do about it.
So why lose sleep over it?

And he is right, there is only so much you can do to help people, when they don't want your help.

Personally I think the fakes, frauds, and posers should be run out town on rails--and opposed whereever and whenever they poke their slime coated heads out of their dark, dank, burrows.

But sadly many people are very happy in their ignorance.


Edited by cxt (06/08/06 09:01 AM)
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#259985 - 06/08/06 02:00 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Aaargh!!!
I'll try and clarify a few things so perhaps Speedy can understand what I'm saying.
Speedy wrote :
Quote:

... and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.



To which I said that I've never heard of anyone that did that. I've discussed the sword ban with a couple of different Japanese sensei that were there, as well as several other people whose sensei were there at the time. Many people practiced behind closed doors, but most just stopped until the ban was lifted. Not one ever mentioned using a jo instead. Your family may be Japanese, but that doesn't mean you know squat about the Japanese sword arts. Most Japanese don't.

Speedy wrote :
Quote:

How very ammoral of you.



That is an erroneous statement. It would be amoral of me to hope that someone would injure themselves (sound familiar?), but saying that others should be responsible for themselves has nothing at all to do with morality.
According to you and your strangely warped outlook, to be morally correct I have to try and ensure that others can't injure themselves no matter what they think or want unless I disagree with them, in which case I can hope that they hurt themselves and then I can laugh at them. These are your morals? That's a bit disturbing in my opinion.
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#259986 - 06/08/06 08:23 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
1. I'm not Japanese.
2. My grandfather was 3 dan pre-WWII Kendo.
3. Sorry about that last remark, but I was trying to show you how would you feel if someone would just laugh apathetically at you hurting yourself. Not caring is just as ammoral.

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#259987 - 06/08/06 09:13 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

1. I'm not Japanese.



Well excuse me for making assumptions. Still doesn't mean that you know squat about the Japanese sword arts.
Quote:

My grandfather was 3 dan pre-WWII Kendo.



Good for him! Still doesn't mean that you know squat about the Japanese sword arts.
Quote:

3. Sorry about that last remark, but I was trying to show you how would you feel if someone would just laugh apathetically at you hurting yourself.



Please quote anywhere in my posts where I said I would laugh apathetically. Do not put words in my mouth, especially stupid ones!
Quote:

Not caring is just as ammoral.



I don't care!
Actually, when you grow up some you'll realize that this is an erroneous statement. The reason being that what you care about may be totally different to someone else. I much prefer freedom myself. I like rock climbing. To someone else's way of thinking, it is very dangerous. If that someone else "cared" enough about my well being, they would prevent me from rock climbing so I wouldn't get hurt. Then, they would have taken away my freedom to choose. So, I don't want any of your "caring" thank you, I'd much rather have my freedom. I can live my life just fine without an ounce of caring from you, but I can't live very well if you take away my freedom.

Besides which, there's no such word as ammoral


Edited by pgsmith (06/08/06 09:14 PM)
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#259988 - 06/08/06 09:42 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
So you're saying you personally know every single JSA practitioner from 1945 to the end of the ban and that not one of them every practiced jo in the meantime?

Tell me what "squat" you know, please.

P.S. amoral

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#259989 - 06/09/06 12:22 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

So you're saying you personally know every single JSA practitioner from 1945 to the end of the ban and that not one of them every practiced jo in the meantime?

Tell me what "squat" you know, please.

P.S. amoral




This is a truly pointless arguement. I'm sorely tempted to lock the thread.
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#259990 - 06/09/06 12:25 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
self deleted


Edited by SpeedyGonzales (06/09/06 12:30 AM)

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#259991 - 06/09/06 11:59 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Hey Charles,
I know it's pretty pointless, and there isn't much to be gained here. However, it's always kind of fun to watch logic prevail over young people's emotional outbursts. Feel free to lock it if you feel that it has degraded into Monty Pythonesque silliness.

Speedy wrote ...
Quote:

Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.



Then he wrote ...
Quote:

Well I'm not saying all JSA went to jo, I'm just saying some. I heard of a few practitioners using modified jo as bokken too, though that's uncommon



Then he wrote ...
Quote:

So you're saying you personally know every single JSA practitioner from 1945 to the end of the ban and that not one of them every practiced jo in the meantime?



I already warned you about trying to put words in my mouth, and you're still doing it. And they're still stupid!
So, was it people, a few people, one person, or did you simply make it up?

Quote:

Tell me what "squat" you know, please.



If you insist ... I've spoken about the war time sword ban with Yamada Yoshitaka sensei, soke of Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu battojutsu, Uecki Seiji sensei, who was Kaicho of the Zen Nihon Battodo Renmei, Guy Power sensei, student of Nakamura Taizaburo sensei, Hyakutake Colin sensei, Menkyo Kaidin and student of Imai Masayuki Nobukatsu, soke of Hyoho Niten Ichi ryu. Not one of them ever mentioned anyone using jo to replace their sword art.

I have been practicing the Japanese sword arts since 1995. I am currently ranked Godan in Kobu Shin ryu battojutsu, sandan in Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu battojutsu, and nidan in the Zen Bei Battodo Renmei, with my test for sandan coming up next month. I run the Kobu Shin Ryu dojo (for good or ill!) and we are members of the U.S. Federation of Battodo, and the Mizu Hi Kobukai.

So, tell me what "squat" you know, please.


Edited by pgsmith (06/09/06 12:02 PM)
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#259992 - 06/09/06 12:20 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

Hey Charles,
I know it's pretty pointless, and there isn't much to be gained here. However, it's always kind of fun to watch logic prevail over young people's emotional outbursts. Feel free to lock it if you feel that it has degraded into Monty Pythonesque silliness.




Hate to jump in on an argument that is but this quote was like a slap in the face, so I as a young person would like to respond...

you said
Quote:

...Not one of them ever mentioned anyone using jo to replace their sword art...





Just because they have never "mentioned" it doesn't mean that they never "did" it. Speedy could know something we don't, and arguing about it is completely pointless because unless you know and asked every sensei and practitioner in Japan whether they used a jo instaid of a sword during the sword ban, you will never know whether it happened or not.
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#259993 - 06/09/06 12:35 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pepto_bismol]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Pepto

Actually if nothing else this can start to serve as means of education--mainly for folks that have a poor grasp of logic and rational thought.

If Speedy knows something the rest of don't then--then the burden of proof is upon HIM to present it.
When claims are made its the duty of the claiment to prove he/she is correct---not "our" job to prove they are not correct.

Most important however is the serious logical error made by yourself and Speedy.

You both extend the arguement that unless we poll each and every single martial artist in japan on the subject and each and every one of them gives us the "same" answer then you guys are "right."

Sorry to say that simply is not he case.

That "some" guys "may" have used a jo may or may not be correct--but what is known is that MOST of them did not.

If the had it would be pretty common info that they did so.

So finding a couple of guys that used a jo instead of bokken/sword is really not that surpriseing.

I know people that refuse to have any electrical wiring in their rual homes---does not make it the "norm."

And the "norm" is what is in question here.

Another thing that you might consider is that the Ban in question applied to the PRACTICE of martial arts itself--not just specifc weapons.

By this I mean that training in martial arts PERIOD was kinda questionable--regardless of weapon.

Some did not care, some were very quiet about it and some put their training "on hold" until the ban was lifted.

I mean no disrespect and I have no animus toward you--seriously.

Just trying to help.


Edited by cxt (06/09/06 12:37 PM)
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I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#259994 - 06/09/06 02:43 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pepto_bismol]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

Just because they have never "mentioned" it doesn't mean that they never "did" it. Speedy could know something we don't, and arguing about it is completely pointless because unless you know and asked every sensei and practitioner in Japan whether they used a jo instaid of a sword during the sword ban, you will never know whether it happened or not.



Dear pepto,
This is a prime example of what I was referring to as "young people's emotional outbursts." You took offense to that particular statement of mine, not sure why, and proceeded to post something absolutely illogical in response. You either disregarded the original argument, or didn't bother to read and understand the posts. Either way your statement made no logical sense, and was simply an emotional outburst in response to one particular statement.

I'll try and explain ...
The original statement was ...
"Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative."

This implies that the Japanese people used jo as an alternative to their sword practice, to which I responded that this was NOT what I understood to have happened, and I had never heard anything like this. Mine was a statement of fact based upon my experiences. Speedy, rather than explaining fully how he came to that conclusion, proceeded to get upset, wiggle around his statement, and finally try to change what I originally said. He never offered any sort of proof or backing to his original statement, so I had to conclude that he made it up.

Now, you have arrived and made the same sort of emotionally laden statement as Speedy by suggesting that my experiences are at fault, since I hadn't personally interviewed everyone involved in the Japanese sword arts during WWII. That fact does NOT alter my experiences, nor does it alter the fact that in my experience, Speedy's original statement was wrong. Further, it does absolutely nothing at all to indicate that Speedy is correct in his statement, and that he didn't make it up.

So, did you follow that? If not, I'm not sure I can make an explanation any more clear.
_________________________
Paul

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#259995 - 06/09/06 03:38 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

Quote:

Just because they have never "mentioned" it doesn't mean that they never "did" it. Speedy could know something we don't, and arguing about it is completely pointless because unless you know and asked every sensei and practitioner in Japan whether they used a jo instaid of a sword during the sword ban, you will never know whether it happened or not.



Dear pepto,
This is a prime example of what I was referring to as "young people's emotional outbursts." You took offense to that particular statement of mine, not sure why, and proceeded to post something absolutely illogical in response. You either disregarded the original argument, or didn't bother to read and understand the posts. Either way your statement made no logical sense, and was simply an emotional outburst in response to one particular statement.

I'll try and explain ...
The original statement was ...
"Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative."

This implies that the Japanese people used jo as an alternative to their sword practice, to which I responded that this was NOT what I understood to have happened, and I had never heard anything like this. Mine was a statement of fact based upon my experiences. Speedy, rather than explaining fully how he came to that conclusion, proceeded to get upset, wiggle around his statement, and finally try to change what I originally said. He never offered any sort of proof or backing to his original statement, so I had to conclude that he made it up.

Now, you have arrived and made the same sort of emotionally laden statement as Speedy by suggesting that my experiences are at fault, since I hadn't personally interviewed everyone involved in the Japanese sword arts during WWII. That fact does NOT alter my experiences, nor does it alter the fact that in my experience, Speedy's original statement was wrong. Further, it does absolutely nothing at all to indicate that Speedy is correct in his statement, and that he didn't make it up.

So, did you follow that? If not, I'm not sure I can make an explanation any more clear.




Lol, I stand corrected. I should of took the time to read speedy's posts. I was just trying to say that "some" people "might" of used the jo instaid of a sword. Not that "most" people "did" use a jo instaid of a sword.

When you say "it's always kind of fun to see logic prevail over young people's emotional outbursts" you are implying that young people make a lot of illogical outbursts. Hence you are insulting the intelligance of most young people.

It probably would of been better if you would of said that you love to see logic prevail over speedy's outburst.

But I apoligigize for not researching the topic before posting about it...

I searched on yahoo, google, and alltheweb and searched for "using a jo instaid of a sword" worded several differant ways and I found nothing so you are probably correct.

(Old people are just as likely to make emotional outbursts as young people)
_________________________
YAY pepto bismol! No... not... kryptonite

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#259996 - 06/09/06 03:55 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pepto_bismol]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
pepto

NO WE ARE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I......err.....ahm.......
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#259997 - 06/09/06 04:49 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pepto_bismol]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

Old people are just as likely to make emotional outbursts as young people



Possibly, but not usually. I have found, from posting on quite a few different forums such as this one over the years, that young people have a much greater tendency to "shoot from the hip" without stopping to consider what is being said. That's how I could tell that Speedy was fairly young. You proved my point with your reply.
_________________________
Paul

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#259998 - 06/10/06 01:24 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Not one of them ever mentioned anyone using jo to replace their sword art.




Now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't use "replace" their art, I said alternative, as in temporary supplement.

But I found this very enlightening (though offensive and crudely stated)

You are what you post, Speedy.(in reference to your little picture)

Anyways, someone on the other forum was enlightened enough to actually discuss the videos with the maker of the "online dojo" and convinced him to take of some videos and stop offering his "classes" to the mass public, but he still says he will teach some friends his "twirling" thing.

So the rest of this board is meaningless arguments.

Mu!

P.S.
Quote:

If Speedy knows something the rest of don't then--then the burden of proof is upon HIM to present it.
When claims are made its the duty of the claiment to prove he/she is correct---not "our" job to prove they are not correct.





lol @ this.

1. This is the internet, I could say my grandpa is Yagyu Nobuharu and no one would believe me regardless of whether or not it's true.
2. You say this is a logic class - actually it's called a discussion. In real life do you turn every conversation into a debate?
3. I don't have to prove anything to you. I don't have that type of ego to feel some satisfaction in proving myself on the internet. I do feel good about meeting cool people and depending on the situation possibly meeting them at events, competitions, etc, but winning an argument? I don't think that's what FA.com is about?

Anyways, reagrdless of proof or not, I know what I know, so if you believe me cool, if not, whatever. Peace.



Edited by MattJ (06/10/06 09:12 AM)

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#259999 - 06/10/06 08:55 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Speedy

This is what I get for trying to nice and help folks out.

Now your BMW about your own mistakes, errors and screw-ups.

If you "didn't have anything to prove" you would have listened to the folks that know what that doing.
The fact you have not just said "oops, my mistake" and let it go is proof that pgsmith was right all along.

Martial arts 101--if you pull it, you better be able to use it.
You can't have any kind of discussion OR debate when folks simply have no idea what they are talking about yet insist that everyone BUT them is wrong.

So you "know what you know" huh?

Ok--well "I" know you just plain wrong.

So there

This is the point in a discussion where I would say "put up or shut up."

But since you seemingly CAN'T do either---then I guess I'll just have to walk away.

Good luck in your martial arts practice--with an attitude like the one you have expressed here---your going to need all the luck and well wishing you can get.



Edited by cxt (06/10/06 11:09 AM)

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#260000 - 06/10/06 11:15 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pgsmith]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

Quote:

Old people are just as likely to make emotional outbursts as young people



Possibly, but not usually. I have found, from posting on quite a few different forums such as this one over the years, that young people have a much greater tendency to "shoot from the hip" without stopping to consider what is being said. That's how I could tell that Speedy was fairly young. You proved my point with your reply.




I misread what speedy was saying, but I don't think I ever got "emotional" about it. Ever see adults at the horse races, or at vegas? lol I stand by what I said, adults are just as likely to make emotional outbursts as children.
_________________________
YAY pepto bismol! No... not... kryptonite

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#260001 - 06/10/06 04:59 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

Anyways, reagrdless of proof or not, I know what I know, so if you believe me cool, if not, whatever. Peace.



Alrighty then. Thank you for confirming my initial suspicions. It seems you are just another "internet expert" with no real experience or knowledge of your own. Good enough, I can ignore you from now on and don't have to worry that I might miss anything worth reading.

Good luck in your endeavours, hopefully you'll learn something eventually. Peas.
_________________________
Paul

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#260002 - 06/11/06 12:32 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: cxt]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Speedy

This is what I get for trying to nice and help folks out.

Now your BMW about your own mistakes, errors and screw-ups.

If you "didn't have anything to prove" you would have listened to the folks that know what that doing.
The fact you have not just said "oops, my mistake" and let it go is proof that pgsmith was right all along.

Martial arts 101--if you pull it, you better be able to use it.
You can't have any kind of discussion OR debate when folks simply have no idea what they are talking about yet insist that everyone BUT them is wrong.

So you "know what you know" huh?

Ok--well "I" know you just plain wrong.

So there

This is the point in a discussion where I would say "put up or shut up."

But since you seemingly CAN'T do either---then I guess I'll just have to walk away.

Good luck in your martial arts practice--with an attitude like the one you have expressed here---your going to need all the luck and well wishing you can get.






When did I say "oops my mistake"?

I'll just sit back and keep laughing

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#260003 - 06/11/06 01:03 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

Quote:

Speedy

This is what I get for trying to nice and help folks out.

Now your BMW about your own mistakes, errors and screw-ups.

If you "didn't have anything to prove" you would have listened to the folks that know what that doing.
The fact you have not just said "oops, my mistake" and let it go is proof that pgsmith was right all along.

Martial arts 101--if you pull it, you better be able to use it.
You can't have any kind of discussion OR debate when folks simply have no idea what they are talking about yet insist that everyone BUT them is wrong.

So you "know what you know" huh?

Ok--well "I" know you just plain wrong.

So there

This is the point in a discussion where I would say "put up or shut up."

But since you seemingly CAN'T do either---then I guess I'll just have to walk away.

Good luck in your martial arts practice--with an attitude like the one you have expressed here---your going to need all the luck and well wishing you can get.






When did I say "oops my mistake"?

I'll just sit back and keep laughing




Speedy... that is is point exactly! You never said "oops my mistake" he said you never said "oops my mistake"

You should be laughing at yourself...
_________________________
YAY pepto bismol! No... not... kryptonite

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#260004 - 06/11/06 06:26 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: pepto_bismol]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
hahahahahahahah! wow @ myself

well I think the truly "logical" thing for now at least is to let this thread go. Clearly there's nothing constructive by staying stuck on this. I hope the rest of the discussions I participate in will end up being more constructive and peaceful, and that I can participate in debates which stay positive and respectful. Apologies for this lapse in maturity.

Ossu!

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#260005 - 06/11/06 03:51 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
And with that I'm locking the thread. This silliness has gone on long enough. I think all parties have made all the points that needed to be made. Many times.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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