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#259963 - 06/06/06 09:57 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:


What I will say is that I think you're mixing your arguments to try and make a point. Suggesting that someone hurting themselves whilst attempting to learn a sword art via DVD would get swords banned is a bit of a leap.





I wish you were right, but experience has shown otherwise

Quote:


Admit it, if you saw a news item about some idiot cutting his leg off whilst messing around with a sword in his own home you'd laugh! And so would the majority of 'normal' people.





The problem is that politicians are not normal people. They're always looking for some way to appeal to the voters, particularly on issues such as keeping children safe. That's how bans on nunchucks and varioius other "martial arts weapons" got passed. You think it was because of a rash of beatings involving nunchucks? These guys are just looking for an excuse. One more thing to talk about at re-election time. The sword arts community is very small and a voting block that politicians are not especially worried about pissing off.

Quote:


The real reason for the pressure to ban swords and knives (in the UK at least) is the large amount of knifings that we suffer in this country. These are people that usually have nothing to do with sharp objects getting stabbed by someone else. THAT is where your public pressure is coming from and I don't blame them. Unfortunately it affects everyone though.





What do knifings have to do with swords? My understanding is that swords are just as rarely used in assaults in the UK as they are here in the US. They want to ban them because they "might" be used in assaults. Not because they "are" used in assaults.

In the UK, this is just another wedge issue to be used to move voters from one block to another.

The problem is this. Say some idiot, like the one in the video, goes and gets himself killed doing some kind of stunt with his swords. Then the mother of that kid makes it her lifes work to get them banned. That kind of thing happens all the time. Then you have a small time lobbyist with a lot of press coverage. The press just loves that stuff. Then some politician decides to jump on the bandwagon. Pretty soon you've got proposed legistlation.

It's not nearly as farfetched as you think.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#259964 - 06/06/06 10:28 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
shuri Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Central IL
yeah i had to look carefully but he was striking with the flat of the blade back of the blade blocking with the edge hitting logs absolutly no stances looks cool but that guy would probably do better as a jedi then a samurai and jedi dont exist
_________________________
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#259965 - 06/06/06 11:50 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Charles Mahan]
MonkeyDispenser Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 18
Loc: York, England
Quote:

What do knifings have to do with swords? My understanding is that swords are just as rarely used in assaults in the UK as they are here in the US. They want to ban them because they "might" be used in assaults. Not because they "are" used in assaults.




True, and I think that was close to my point. Swords are being linked with anything pointy and it's the fact that short pointy objects are being used in assaults that could well mean a ban for all pointy objects.

But of all the pointy objects that are dangerous it's probably kitchen knives that pose the greater risk and it's unlikely they'll get banned! Often the high-end kitchen knives are built to a much higher specification than the 'fighting' knives these people can get hold of. Kitchen knives have to actually perform at what they do so it's in the interests of the manufacturers to make sure they don't break. 'Fighting' knives shouldn't be used (apparently!) so they often don't care about the quality - but I don't want to get into another discussion about King of Swords here

I guess I agree with a lot of what you say. Swords are in danger of being banned even though it's the other end of the spectrum that will prove to be the most dangerous to let people have access to (kitchen knives.) I just think the main reason lies somewhere else rather than with the guy at the top of this thread.

There was a TV news report last night about a knives amnesty we currently have in the UK. This included a couple of interviews with victims families, but we just don't tend to have the crusading reaction so much in the UK unless things go really pair shaped. Or maybe they just don't get as much air time at the moment. Or maybe I just autoomatically filter them out!

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#259966 - 06/06/06 02:45 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
Sorin Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Oxford, MS
I find it odd that they're so gungho about banning swords
when guns are probably more used in crimes. Could it be
similar to the states? You have many people that like their
guns and polititians want to keep their vote, so they're
going after the swords to make it look like their doing
something perhaps?

Sorin

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#259967 - 06/06/06 02:56 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

I find it odd that they're so gungho about banning swords
when guns are probably more used in crimes. Could it be
similar to the states? You have many people that like their
guns and polititians want to keep their vote, so they're
going after the swords to make it look like their doing
something perhaps?

Sorin




It's called tyranny of the majority.


Edited by Charles Mahan (06/06/06 05:17 PM)
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#259968 - 06/06/06 04:20 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: shuri]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

looks cool but that guy would probably do better as a jedi then a samurai and jedi dont exist




Neither do Samurai, so he's completely out of luck!
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#259969 - 06/06/06 07:46 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Yeah, that's the jist of it on this side of the pond, Sorin. If you are for banning guns, you have the huge gun lobby on you pulling up that annoying little fact that gun control does not reduce crime. If you talk about banning guns in the South, you will get more people against it than you knew existed. However, if you restrict or ban swords, you don't have a huge lobby to counter it. Do you know of the martial art lobby? Perhaps that's the reason you can get a license to legally carry a pistol most places (in 40 out of 50 states), but you cannot carry a bowie knife on the street in any of the 50 states.

As has been stated before, restricting swords is a "I'm helping public safety" issue that doesn't bring a huge opposition to bear. It's a thing done to look like you care about the people, just like gun control, except without the opposition.
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#259970 - 06/07/06 01:02 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: MonkeyDispenser]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

Admit it, if you saw a news item about some idiot cutting his leg off whilst messing around with a sword in his own home you'd laugh!




Only someone as appathetic and irresponsible as TPRoach could say something so immoral.

I don't care about the publicity. I don't care about the reputation of swords arts. I have little concern about it getting banned (I could just stick to bokken and iato, maybe even jo).

What I do care about is people getting hurt.

This website promotes 3 ways of getting hurt:
1. Financially - one of the two inevitable ways this website will hurt people.
2. Intellectually - you saw the video
3. Physically - NOT a laughing matter.

You would laugh at someone losing their leg? Sickening.

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#259971 - 06/07/06 01:08 AM Re: are you serious..... [Re: Sorin]
SpeedyGonzales Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 320
Quote:

I find it odd that they're so gungho about banning swords
when guns are probably more used in crimes. Could it be
similar to the states? You have many people that like their
guns and polititians want to keep their vote, so they're
going after the swords to make it look like their doing
something perhaps?

Sorin




This discussion entirely misses the point. It's not about banning swords. Go ahead, I will just use a jo if I have to. Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.

The issue is people getting hurt. See my last for for how they get hurt.

"Martial artists are peopel who train themselves to endure. Those who can't stand an empty stomach and use for theft the techniques they've devoted long years to ar not martial artists!!"
- Jiraiya-sama

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#259972 - 06/07/06 12:16 PM Re: are you serious..... [Re: SpeedyGonzales]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

Sword arts were banned even in Japan post WWII, and that's exactly what people did, use jo as an alternative.



Ummm ... no! I'm not sure where you came up with that, but that's not what those sensei that I've talked with have said. They were there, so I have to assume they knew what they were talking about.
Quote:

The issue is people getting hurt. See my last for for how they get hurt.



Perhaps for you, but that's definitely not the issue for me. People are stupid and hurt themselves all the time. That doesn't really concern me at all except for its impact upon my practice. Everyone needs to be responsible for themselves, and people should not need a father figure to tell them what's stupid and what isn't. My only concern is their impact upon the arts that I practice. If others wish to ride without helmets, stand up in the back of their moving pickups, pull wheelies on the freeway, jump off of buildings, they can go ahead and kill themselves for all of me. As long as their actions don't curtail my ability to do what I wish, then it's only evolution in action. When it starts impacting my freedoms, then I'm going to be perturbed about it.
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