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#257859 - 06/05/06 01:23 PM Re: underwater training [Re: Yattan]
Cord Offline

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Yattan, aside from swimming, probably the best low impact exercise freely available would be cycling, providing that you have your bike set up correctly (seat and handlebar height) it is a fabulous knee friendly form of cardio.

Hedkikr, please read my response to your post, it was laced with humour, and i hope, the good nature with which it was intended. Yes I am fully qualified, having been a pro sports therapist and fitness trainer for many years, and if you look around the strength, and health and nutrition forums (where i moderate), I hope you will find that my overiding purpose is to help, though I am the first to admit that I have no qualms in setting straight any posts that advocate inefective/dangerous training- real people act on advice given here, and it is important that I do all I can to ensure they are as safe as possible, if that puts noses out of joint, then so be it.

My tone in regards to Stealthdozer is coloured primarily by his obtuse nature, and his frustrating habit of posting at tangents till all coherence evaporates from his argument.

i have stated my opinions on the matter, they will not change. I doubt stealthdozers will either.

I am happy that the reasoning behind my beliefs,and their grounding in sound biomechanical theory, but I am also happy if people decide they want to run around in water all day. Its personal choice, and mine is to do what is effective. Simple as that
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'

#257860 - 06/05/06 11:30 PM Re: underwater training [Re: Cord]
Stealthdozer Offline

Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 224
Loc: Harpswell, Maine, US.
My opinions are of no consequence. I will go where the facts take me.

So far all I suspect is that you are a receptionist at a gym, checking IDís & handing out towels ("security officer" + "personal trainer" = "towel boy")? The "research" at your finger tips appears to be muscle rags, vice links towards
scientifically founded academic research.

Please stop dancing around & present actual research on the matter.

#257861 - 06/06/06 01:11 AM Re: underwater training [Re: Stealthdozer]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
dozer, take a gander around the strengthening forum and see how much of a towel boy Cord is.

I also suggest you learn some respect.
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

#257862 - 06/06/06 01:24 AM Re: underwater training [Re: Stealthdozer]
Dereck Offline

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10416
Loc: Great White North
Stealdozer, I have been reading this thread and I think that you are entitled to your opinion as are the others. If you choose to train doing katas in the water and you find them effective then continue to do so and leave it at that.

Your comment:


I am confident I can state that I am as effective as anyone, measured thus: I can bench press 340lbs fifteen times, tear a heavy bag free of its chains with a single punch (albeit not deliberately), and I can produce witnesses for this. This is at least average, right? There other measurements we could use: I breathe as well as anyone (also an example Iíve used).

I can certainly deduce from this that your underwater training for katas had nothing to do with this and that your weight lifting is why you are able to do these feats.

There are many things that are still done to this day as they were handed down from one person to the next to the next and have been taken as gospel. If you want to carry on this way then so be it but do not for once think that there are not better ways or that your kata training in water had anything to do with these. You yourself say you weight lift but I'd bet many of the older martial artists never lifted a thing and relied on technique only. You yourself must have realized somewhere a long the line that this could be made better.

I have much respect for Cord and what knowledge he has gained through his experiences due to his career and life styles. He has gained my respect as well as others because of this and you don't have to agree with him but by "deducing" such as you have only gains you less credibility. It is okay to disagree and Cord would be the first to say this ... in fact I think he did above ... but please refrain from belittling anybody as this I consider a personal attack and that is not something allowed nor will it be tolerated by myself and others. Agree to disagree and then move on.

#257863 - 06/06/06 02:44 AM Re: underwater training [Re: Dereck]
Stealthdozer Offline

Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 224
Loc: Harpswell, Maine, US.
Fair to say. Why no facts?

Iíve discarded many elements of traditional training (e.g., roundhouse kicks). Iíve also added effective elements from other traditions (i.e., weight-lifting, speed-bags, etc).

Iíll train at what is most effective, but not without facts.

The "Strengthening" forum where Dereck notes in the lead post "Learning from the internet in no way replaces actual experts that you can work with in person"?

#257864 - 06/06/06 03:59 AM Re: underwater training [Re: Stealthdozer]
Cord Offline

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
well, its ok if you wish to belittle me, that means that my opinions on this matter threaten yours, and as you have found no evidence to back up your confused 'bob n weave' style defence of water training, you now seek to take the power of my truth via character attack.

Evasion of questions, and attacks on credibility- you are right, you are not a diplomat, you are a politician; and i mean that as the insult it is in this day and age.

Unlike you, I have never felt the need to pour my ego over the screen with long boring 'wonder years' memoirs, name dropping obscure people, and giving misty eyed detail, on when looked at factualy, events that are at best unsavoury, and at worst lies. (I was a bully boy student for a cradle snatching TKD teacher. I got hit by a car, then escalated the situation, then taunted the ageing, weak hearted man within it. Oh the memories)

But if memoirs impress you, then try these:

1993- self employed personal trainer and acting duty manager, Body and Soul Gym, Llandudno, Wales

1994-1999- senior instructor and assistant manager Bodysgallen Spa, Wales. (very exclusive- I doubt they would let you in)

1999-2002- senior instructor/duty manager, Greens Health and Fitness, Cambridge. Flagship club of one of britains largest brand of health clubs. Here I was also linked to the local NHS GP referal scheme, dealing with both cardiac, and musculoskeletal rehab- 'towel boys' dont get to train heart bypass patients.

2003-2004- personal trainer, Cambridge. Having gained an excellent word of mouth reputation among the 4500 members of Greens, I went self employed, among my busy client list by this time were Jackie and Gordon Riley- both members of the British triathlon and biathlon squads. It was at this time that I was also contracted to Histon FC as A team physio and conditioning adviser, as well as working closely with Cambridge boxing club.

While we are on the subject of name dropping, while working at Bodysgallen Spa, I trained: Isabella Rosellini, Rutger Hauer, Miranda Richardson, Thomas Kretchman, Sam Neil and Stephen Moyer- all of whom were at one point or another, filming in snowdonia. Again, not the responsibility of your average tea boy as far as i am aware.

During this time, I also worked as a doorman- full time in wales, but only occasionaly in Cambridge.

The reason I left the fitness industry, and moved into Security is simple: I met my now wife, and fell in love (everyone say ahh ). The hours you work as a personal trainer are excessive, and the money you make on a health club salary is pitiful in Britain. Full time security work ensured a fair wage, and more time to enjoy life. It wasnt an easy decision, but right decisions seldom are.

As you have resorted to name calling, I assume that you have run out of variations on the same post that you have been churning out for the last 2 days (show me facts blah blah, you are a weasel blah blah), and so we can put this nasty little baby of a thread to bed- the squalling is waking the neighbours.

i have posted facts based on basic biomechanics. If you want to look into it further, pick up a text book on human anatomy and kinesiology- put your efforts into something more positive than this thread. Your insults dont hurt- we are just words on a screen here remember.

I will not answer again. I have said all I care to on this tedious thread. Feel free to rant away if you wish, like the angry tramp shouting to the sky in the park, I doubt any will listen to you.

Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'

#257865 - 06/06/06 04:25 AM Re: underwater training [Re: Cord]
Stealthdozer Offline

Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 224
Loc: Harpswell, Maine, US.
Example: If I were to state that the CSPI claims soft drinks are unhealthy, I would share this:

#257866 - 06/06/06 08:06 AM Re: underwater training [Re: Stealthdozer]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by StealthDozer -


So far all I suspect is that you are a receptionist at a gym, checking IDís & handing out towels ("security officer" + "personal trainer" = "towel boy")? The "research" at your finger tips appears to be muscle rags, vice links towards scientifically founded academic research.

Incredibly hypocritical remark. You have obviously never been on the Strengthening forum. And what exactly are YOUR credentials for you to be giving advice or contradictions?

You are coming across as nothing more than a common VTG.

Putting this thread to bed now.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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