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#257745 - 06/01/06 10:39 AM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: Dobbersky]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Dobbersky

Excellent point!

One of the guys I trained with back in high school got into martial arts because he did not like getting picked on.

(like many people do)

After a year or so of hard training, weights, bagwork etc. the guy had gotten trim and muscular and pretty tough.

What hacked him off was that now that he could beat up the guys that "bullied" him--now they left him alone.

Bugged him to no end.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#257746 - 06/01/06 12:26 PM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: cxt]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Quote:

What hacked him off was that now that he could beat up the guys that "bullied" him--now they left him alone.

Bugged him to no end




Now that's funny....all dressed up and nowhere to go!


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#257747 - 06/01/06 01:27 PM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: PaulHart]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Moderator Hart:



<<why is Kata a bad thing to learn?

You're preaching to the choir here.... the only context I could see kata being "bad", would be where the understanding of the movements were shallow!

Over time practicing again and again, and again, and again sands away another layer of movement "roughness". Once they get sanded away, and more becomes ~instinctual~ then concentration can focus upon other things once solely relegated to rote memorization....

Merely my opinion, I could easily be mistaken.
Jeff

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#257748 - 06/01/06 02:26 PM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: PaulHart]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
There is more to kata than just learning self defense.The spirit of Karate training is applicable to each and every aspect of our daily lives. The indomitable spirit born of bearing down and gritting your teeth against the pain of a thousand kicks, or blinking sweat from your eyes from doing kata over and over will serve you well in everyday life. One whose spirit and mental strength have been forged by hard training will face any challenge with a "can do" attitude. One who has undergone long hours of hard physical training and mental agony to learn one technique can face any task... and carry it through to a successful conclusion. When you have done this, you can truly say that you have begun to understand the true "way".

The word are not mine but they are what I believe.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#257749 - 06/01/06 02:48 PM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: schanne]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I agree with you schanne, except I'd widen it to include any training method and not kata alone. The means don't define the ends in this case.

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#257750 - 06/02/06 03:20 PM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: Dobbersky]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Dobbersky,

BTW, I PMed you some information and if you wanted to talk about the "kata" that we normally have in our school, I am more than happy to answer any comparative questions you might have, noting that it is harder to describe than show.

Regards,

-B

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#257751 - 06/04/06 05:14 AM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: PaulHart]
Ryan_Doherty Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 55
Loc: Australia
My limited experience in Seido Karate (I might be joining a Kyokushin dojo next week) has taught me that although it might not be right to just bust into certain kata based on certain situations. The kata is a catalogue of technique and a good way of learning how to shift stance from one technique into another. I would suppose once you know the Kata propperly you are quite an exceptional Karateka.
-Very limited knowledge on the matter, just trying to add an input.
_________________________
Ryan Doherty

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#257752 - 06/07/06 04:30 AM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: Ryan_Doherty]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Ryan, Seido karate, where is the origin of this, Kyuokoshinkai after the death of Kancho Oyamas separated, a separate organisation formed called Sei Do Kan, which is Kyuokoshinkai under a different name, the 2005 K1 final was with two karateka, one from Kyuokoshinkai and one from Seidokankai.
But I know of a Wado Ryu based style with a similar name, please advise as its not good to keep swapping and changing because there are slight differences in the kata between the styles, even in the basin pinan/heian katas


Also guys if I have not given the full or correct 'therory' for SeiDoKan and Kyuokoshin, please advise

_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#257753 - 07/07/06 05:56 PM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: Dobbersky]
HiddenFist Offline
Member

Registered: 07/04/06
Posts: 28
A kata is as good as it's Bunkai. IF the techniques contained within work, I believe Katas are highly beneficial. However, in the mess that the martial arts has become today many katas have been developed that may not work at all in a combat situation.Some katas are also just for show. The practice of these types of katas will have no benefits to a realistic combat situation.

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#257754 - 07/15/06 07:29 AM Re: Karate, Kata and real Self-Defense. [Re: cxt]
ANDY44 Offline
Revolutionary!

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 814
After a year or so of hard training, weights, bagwork etc. the guy had gotten trim and muscular and pretty tough.

What hacked him off was that now that he could beat up the guys that "bullied" him--now they left him alone.


That just about defines a bully, couldnt your friend politely ask them to train with him? just a thought.

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