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#256454 - 07/28/06 10:10 PM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

JK, I don't know about you or anyone else on here, but I know that I'll bite, scratch and rip a person apart if I need to in a fight whether I've trained for that or not.




I don’t disagree with you. In fact, I would whole-heartedly agree. I would do the same thing. I just believe in having a legitimate game in place before I start thinking about foul tactics as fight stoppers.


Quote:


Just because certain techniques can't be practiced full power or completely "alive" doesn't mean they should be forgotten. If a technique is effective then use it, even biting. I'm sure Bruce Lee probably didn't practice biting full force yet he recommended be prepared to do it if need be.




I agree yet again! However I believe that my stance is simply misunderstood by most. I’m not in opposition to the use of biting and scratching, etc.. But those things do not require practice or skill to do. There is no “art” behind biting and scratching. You simply don’t need to be “taught” how to bite, scratch or be generally aggressive. Those things are inherent in our nature. What we DO need is legitimate SKILL.

But what does biting and scratching have to do with Krav Maga videos?

-John

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#256455 - 07/29/06 09:54 PM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
What if because of training your "game" you lose sight of the effectiveness and possibility of using foul tactics? I think there's a chance you may forget them by developing the habit of using "sport" tactics and I use the term sport for lack of a better word, not to say that those methods are ineffective or anything because I know they are.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#256456 - 09/18/06 05:12 AM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: Stormdragon]
rafikEz Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 19
Loc: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
http://www.kravmaga-zgora.republika.pl/

itsall in polish, but these videos are seriously the best krav videos ive seen on the internet. simply awesome. just click on any of the four tabs on the right of the screen, and you can watch some awesome vids. :-)
enjoy

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#256457 - 09/18/06 08:08 AM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: Stormdragon]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Stormdragon wrote
Quote:

What if because of training your "game" you lose sight of the effectiveness and possibility of using foul tactics? I think there's a chance you may forget them by developing the habit of using "sport" tactics





Foul tactics are easily deliverable from a all delivery systems. Training those delivery systems in an athletic way has nothing to do with whether foul tactics are trained or not. Regardless of that point, you’re only pretending to use them when you train one way or the other. No one is *really* going into their partners eyes or crushing their testicles…you’re only pretending to do so.


Quote:


and I use the term sport for lack of a better word, not to say that those methods are ineffective or anything because I know they are.




Define “sport tactic” if you would. Would you consider breaking someone’s arm, dislocating a shoulder or choking someone unconscious a “sport tactic”?




-John

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#256458 - 09/20/06 11:50 AM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: JKogas]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Wait a sec who cares if it's "pretend" anyway? I mean what makes it less effective if a few techniques are simulated?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#256459 - 09/21/06 06:07 PM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: JKogas]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I would define sport tactics as a way to set up a technique which if were being applied in a real situation would be set up with a small move or a feint. Usually such small nuances are not allowed in sparring or competition. Which is why when pulling off big oves like arm bars you have two competitors responding and reacting aggressively.

These smal techniques are very basic and easy to apply and by no means do they require endless practice such as the techniques used in sparring. Which is why I believe sparring is a very important aspect of training.

To answer your last question whether I consider arm locks and choking a sport tactic, I consider the manuevers used to apply such techniques as sport tactics. Because obviously durring sparring or competition there is a limit in the way you approach setting up these techniques.

The techniques themslves are apprpriate for sparring and competition (sport) because they can be controlled, just like many striking techniquss such s punches and kicks can be controlled.

There in lies the difference between sport and fighting.

While breaking someones arm or dislocating a shoulder is certainly a consequence or possibility in a grappling match, the actual goal is to win, usually by tapping out.

My intention is not to argue but to try to answer your question and for me to better understand it myself as I try to describe it.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#256460 - 09/23/06 10:30 AM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: Stormdragon]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Wait a sec who cares if it's "pretend" anyway? I mean what makes it less effective if a few techniques are simulated?




I wouldn't like to bet my self protection on techniques which are only pretend. Evidently not everyone thinks the way I do. Much like John, I like to see that techniques work in an environment where you have to make them work, where they don't work themselves.

Admittedly, small joint manipulation is not allowed in many MMA matches, but that doesn't mean that they can not be trained as part of a good resistant training programme. I've heard of people using wristlocks as part of their BJJ.

What specific techniques other than that are prohibited by "sport" sparring which are permitted in KM training?
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#256461 - 09/24/06 10:32 AM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: Leo_E_49]
rafikEz Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 19
Loc: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Quote:



What specific techniques other than that are prohibited by "sport" sparring which are permitted in KM training?




regular groin strikes. granted, the recever wheres a groin gaurd, but we regualrly train to hit in the balls, both when learning the techniques, and when sparring.

that would not be allowed in a 'sport' environemnt

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#256462 - 09/24/06 11:16 AM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: rafikEz]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I see, that's quite a difference indeed.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#256463 - 09/25/06 10:45 AM Re: Krav Maga Videos..... [Re: Leo_E_49]
rafikEz Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 19
Loc: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Quote:

I see, that's quite a difference indeed.




Indeed

but if everyone stoped fussing about about the particulars of 'sport' vs 'realistic' sparring and what not, and enjoyed the videos


http://www.kravmaga-zgora.republika.pl/

they would see that the sparring in Krav is very cool. click on the multimedia tab. it has the best krav vids ive yet seen on the net (which was why i made this thread)
enjoy if you havnt already :-)

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