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#256031 - 11/28/06 08:44 AM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: Chen Zen]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< Some people will keep certain techniques for life, while others will spend a lifetime looking for certain techniques. The key is to find what works best for you, INDIVIDUALY, and apply that. End the end the art is about the individuals needs, if it is to be successful. >>

My first six years in aikido were exactly that. I found maybe eight techniques that worked for me. They were instinctive.
Then I had to change schools and the next six years were spent UNlearning. Just practicing endless variations while I stood there like a dumb bear trying to remember, "NOW what do I do?"

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#256032 - 11/28/06 07:48 PM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: iaibear]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
It might be helpful to simply "forget technique" altogether. What wristtwister wrote 2 posts back is worthwhile re-reading. It's the principle and essence of the technique or variation that's the point. Techniques are merely frameworks for learning the structural mechanics of movement.

I think the point of bombarding people with a multitude of variations is precisely to allow them to feel the subtle differences of what is essentially the same principle. My teacher used to do that. Sadly most would usually revert to doing what they were already familiar with - thereby missing the point of the lesson altogether - and thus the point of this thread.

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#256033 - 11/28/06 11:28 PM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: eyrie]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< I think the point of bombarding people with a multitude of variations is precisely to allow them to feel the subtle differences of what is essentially the same principle. >>

And if a person is unable to learn that way? As I wrote, I have only been at this since 1994. To get through to me the instructor should TELL me what to do. I seem to be impervious to hints.

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#256034 - 11/29/06 12:14 AM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: iaibear]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
First, empty your cup. Then empty yourself. If still in doubt, ask your instructor. There are many things that just can't be "told". You have to discover them for youself. It's not that it cannot be described, but more so, if described, such description would be inadequate to encapsulate the completeness or wholeness.

Bottom line is that you must realize this stuff on your own. As teachers or instructors, we can only hint, point and prompt at what it is you need to discover for yourself.

Sorry to be so vague...

Forget technique, forget variations, FEEL what is happening. Find the "feeling"... once you recognize it, you'll know what it is. Don't stop looking for it. It is in every technique and every variation.

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#256035 - 11/29/06 10:26 AM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: eyrie]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< Bottom line is that you must realize this stuff on your own. As teachers or instructors, we can only hint, point and prompt at what it is you need to discover for yourself.

Sorry to be so vague... >>

"Discovery learning" is very trendy.
I truly appreciate your time and effort, eyrie. Please do not take it wrong when I say I have heard all this before, often, and it simply does NOT work for me. I am still taking Aikido because I enjoy it more than Taibo.

Yesterday in class my favorite sensei accidentally (?) slowed us Yokomenuchi Iriminage right out of the Aikido Federation 3rd Kyu Syllabus. The old synapses kicked in and for a few minutes I actually knew what I was doing. Dang! That felt great!

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#256036 - 11/29/06 06:44 PM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: iaibear]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
No offense taken mate.

Like I said, forget the "techniques" - it's not the technique, but what's IN the technique. All techniques have an entry, an "execution" and an exit. Work on those things INSTEAD of the "technique".

The idea is to TRANSCEND technique, so that ONE technique is ALL techniques. The point is to find the ONE "technique".

If THAT makes sense?

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#256037 - 11/29/06 10:35 PM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: eyrie]
belvedere Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 40
Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I have to weigh in again. First off, I have assumed that every "Aikido dojo" is different in the way they conduct various classes. Second, I agree with everyone that different people have different physical capabilities and limitations. Third, I agree that every martial artist "travels their own path and finds their thechniques". But, again, in response to the intial post, I believe there is a time and place for everything, and "general or beginners' classes" are not the place to "find your technique" or practice the demonstrated technique the way you learned at your previous dojo during Aikido classes. I think this is what the poster was speaking to. I could be wrong.

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#256038 - 11/29/06 10:43 PM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: belvedere]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Perhaps. I think it might not be such a bad thing that people practice differently. If they can make the technique work for them, then why not? Its all interpretation in the end anyways, why would it matter if this interpretation came earlier to some than others?
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#256039 - 11/29/06 10:50 PM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: Chen Zen]
belvedere Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 40
Again, I agree with what you have said. Let me put it this way: many dojos will teach a specific technique with different variations of the same technique. That's fine. I have no problem with that. But if I visist another dojo that "performs/teaches" a technique differently than my "home dojo", and I practice it the way I know versus the way the host dojo and their students "practice it", is that not a bit of a "slap in the face" to the instructor of the class and counter-productive to my partners' practice who are members of the host dojo?

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#256040 - 11/29/06 11:09 PM Re: Practice what you know, or what's being taught [Re: belvedere]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Well, that depends on the instructors interpretation of what you are doing. Who's to say rather or not he would be offended? As far as his interaction with his students, I offer that change is good, and being exposed to a variety of other students and opponents would do nothing but offer benifit to the student.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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