FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 62 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 3
THEFOREVERMAN 3
MattJ 2
Marcus Charles 1
TooNice 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by THEFOREVERMAN
Today at 08:22 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by THEFOREVERMAN
Today at 08:20 AM
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432378 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 17 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 16 17 >
Topic Options
#254977 - 05/21/06 08:57 PM Re: Neigong [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Nope. Forget intent for the moment. Intent (and all the mental visualization stuff) is part of the exercise and also what you're training.

The "something else" that must happen first, and which you already alluded to is using the whole "suit". How do we do that?

In a word...connection.

Basically, the focus of the exercise is to coordinate parts of your body so that the suit is working as a whole unit, supported from the spine, which is strung like a string of pearls from the crown to the coccyx.

The other thing which must happen is using the ground reaction force and accessing the force through the body to various places - the hands being a good place to start.

So.... the foot bone is connected to the ankle bone is connected to the knee bone, yada yada yada... you get the picture.

If you can't get this part, don't jump ahead just yet.

Top
#254978 - 05/21/06 10:13 PM Re: Neigong [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
you just described 'structual body mechanics' with alot more than 3 words. or did I miss something?

Top
#254979 - 05/21/06 10:32 PM Re: Neigong [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Apparently, there's structural mechanics and there's structural mechanics. Which one are you referring to?

I'm talking about the first stage of connecting feet to hands using the "suit".

There's the next stage (of "ki black magic") where you bypass the connections altogether and jump the "short-cut" from feet to hands or center to hands.

Top
#254980 - 05/21/06 10:42 PM Re: Neigong [Re: eyrie]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Can I ask a noob question, for clarification? The basic level is learning to move muscle/bone/fascia/ligaments in a connected way to deliver force, and the advanced level is when the connectivity is so developed that one 'sees' the energy being moved?

Top
#254981 - 05/21/06 11:01 PM Re: Neigong [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Oh, and what comes from the ground, should work in reverse too.

Here's a little experiment to see if you're using "external" muscle and structure, or if you're using "internal" redirection of forces.

Have someone push you on the chest. Imagine that where their hand is placed, is your shoulder, and their shoulder is your hand. Have them push you and see if you can redirect the push to the ground. They should feel like they're pushing against the ground.

Top
#254982 - 05/21/06 11:10 PM Re: Neigong [Re: harlan]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

The basic level is learning to move muscle/bone/fascia/ligaments in a connected way to deliver force, and the advanced level is when the connectivity is so developed that one 'sees' the energy being moved?




You mean "feel"?

Forget about "energy"... from a martial application perspective, the conversion of "energy" into "work" (i.e. force) is easier to talk about.

Going back to the "suit" idea. Think of it as a rubber band. It can stretch and contract, thereby converting potential (elastic) energy into kinetic energy. It's the basics of "store and release".

The key is how the suit is wound and unwound.

Top
#254983 - 05/22/06 12:12 AM Re: Neigong [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
energy conservation. nothing is lost, it's just transferred. the release powers the restore and vice-versa. thats part of what I consider body mechanics. structual mechanics is what I consider to be transmission....which is the point between the release and restore.

so far we are well within the realm of physics. it's only the concepts which are starting to sound like jedi mind tricks.

imagining to redirect pressure on my chest isn't going to do anything, unless I slightly redirect the natural force vectors of my body structure. I can do that 2 ways, either yeild to the force exerted on me, or deflect that force....depending on which way I chose to pivot my axis.

ok, so I've got my elasti-respitory-exto-suit on, I understand the conservation of energy and redirecting/yeilding principles....now what?

Top
#254984 - 05/22/06 12:33 AM Re: Neigong [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
wait a sec...although I understand the concepts of redirection and yeilding, I want to come back to those later and talk about specific drills to work on to making it smoother. most of my previous practice has been sharp angular deflecting with force. which is why my drill partners were going home with bruises on their arms...which was the indisputable proof I was doing it wrong. One of the areas I am currently working on is the method of 'soft' yeilding and redirection. timing is not the problem for me, it's mostly in rotating my core WITH the guard....seems simple, and it is, but I've been doing counter-rotation hip stuff for years (this also works the elastic-conservation principle, but just in a different way - more like as a tourquing force). works well when young and quick and has good power gen, but I think where this thread is leading is more efficient ways to do the same thing....which is what my current Goju Sensei has been showing - it's a challenge to communicate it into words and so far in this thread, it's fun trying...

Top
#254985 - 05/22/06 12:36 AM Re: Neigong [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Yeah elasto-boy... that's redirect the push without moving your feet, shifting your body angle, or bracing, bucko!

Try it. I bet you your 11 y/o could push you over....;)

Oh, we're well within the realms of physics (aka "natural laws").... no "magic" or mysticism here... (we'll talk about Jedi mind tricks later...)

Top
#254986 - 05/22/06 12:56 AM Re: Neigong [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
...but I'm allowed to bend knees and pivot core slightly right? if not, I should pause the topic there for a while until you come back down to earth, aikijedi-master.

Top
Page 3 of 17 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 16 17 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga