It's not that I don't want to put a vid up.... I just don't have the technology.... I'm also in the process of moving, as you know, so at the end of this week, I'll be saying goodbye to the gym where the heavy bags are...

But I have demonstrated it and showed some how to do it. And yes, I can throw it out some "distance" without much overt movement. Remember the bag is already at 45 degrees when I'm holding it. I can't throw it out past 90 degrees (yet), but is a 25-35 degree deviation good enough?

It also depends on how heavy the bag is too.... obviously a lighter bag is going to go higher. I'm not sure how heavy the bags are at the gym I train at, but I try to pick the heaviest one.

And yes, I definitely need to train more...

that would certainly be incredable to see. too bad we probably never will though.

thanks for your effort in this thread eyrie...despite my hard-headedness in seeing the concepts and theories presented, I'm more sure now that I'm on the right track in what I'm trying to accomplish.

That's what I've (and BP) been saying all along. You're already doing it, albeit, from the external Shaolin traditions. But sometimes your harda$$, pig-headedness gets in your way... but you have a good heart and I like you.

Right now I have bigger problems, like organizing DSL and moving... so training beyond the end of the week is unfortunately, the least of my priorities...

thanks again...hope the move goes well. (I patiently wait in this thread until eyrie has everything packed, takes his last look at the forums, realizes he's running late...and just then, I throw another zinger post at 'em. mwahaha)

That'll be right...

I'm shutting down on Sat and flying out... so anything after Fri nite won't get answered till I'm back online... could be weeks...

The point I'm trying to make is that everyone is potentially capable of doing this stuff... to varying degrees. It's the "degrees" that I'm interested in, because that gives me something to work towards....

how 'bout 'Nth degree' ...does that work for ya?

ok, now ur being facetious....

Tell me... do you do hojo undo? Gripping jars, rolling stick, etc. etc.?

When you do hojo undo, how are you doing it? Describe in some detail what is going on. What are you focussing on in these exercises? What sort of mental imagery are you using? What muscles do you feel are being worked on and what does that feel like?

I grew up with all of usual: chishi, wristroller, beans, etc.

presently in class, it's not a usual class. no calestetics, no hojo undo, not many repitions, etc...it's purely an application study group - 80% 2-person work, 15% solo kata. 5% 'internal work' (gong li). everything else is assumed we do on our own. we do hojo undo informally before class.

at home, I only do two 5 or 10 minute hojo undo drills. Chishi and another(I don't know what it's called - it's for hand grip and forearm strengthening-I'll describe it sometime).

so I assume you are asking about chishi work. there are all sorts of drills for this. mostly it's about balance, posture, full range of motion with timed but natural breathing. I don't really know what I'm thinking, sortof nothing or drift. I don't even remember the first time learning chishi exercises...I just know their form.

the characteristic one is in horse stance with the weight straight out...move it slowly but evenly over the shoulder...then back out straight. inhale when going back...exhale going out. stance is fixed but not tense on the balls of feet - very slight forward. back and head straight. The key is full-range with even and controlled movement timed with breathing and correct posture.

why, what are you getting at?

chishi is a good one. Let's talk about that...

Have you tried moving out on the inhale and withdraw on the exhale? When you breathe, what are you focusing on? It's simplistic to simply say "breathe in/out" - everybody does it. Do you apply any sort of internal locking for pressurization? Do you lift your knees? Tuck your tailbone? Feel the stretch in the legs? Feel the ground? When you hold your posture, where is the tension? When you move out, where is the tension?

Details... details.... as you can see, it's simplistic to describe what happens, or you can start to develop an awareness of what's going on within your body and structure as you're doing the exercise.

This is the difference and what I'm getting at....

Otherwise, it gets into the realm of "do this for another 20 years an maybe you'll get it" sort of thing.... see my point?

all the details I can't remember learning. I just do what feels right and just concentrate on the wholistic feel of it and not on details.