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#254437 - 05/15/06 07:48 PM Lotar/ Kapap?
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
How do the Lotar and Kapap combat concepts and defensive systems compare to Krav Maga? Are they really tghe more military oriented forms of Krav?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#254438 - 05/16/06 02:27 AM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: Stormdragon]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
first, LOTAR is just the modern term for the former term KAPAP. KAPAP means face to face combat. LOTAR means combat against terrorism. LOTAR is not really a continuation; rather, it's more of an evolution of the then current system of KAPAP. In other words, like in any country, they re-evaulated their martial arts program and gave it a different name, analogous to what the USMC did with their system (from LINE to MCMAP).

The civilian version of KAPAP is Krav Maga. I understand LOTAR is starting to pop up outside of the military community. But I'm fairly certain most places that teach the military version of Krav Maga are certified under a KAPAP program (note: Notice I didn't say "the", as in the original program as taught in Israel; don't assume all instructors who teach the military form actually studied with the "right" people, as the official list of schools is scarce). The reason the IDF distanced themselves from KM is the name became too commercialized. If you do a search on KM, you'll find there's not one organziation but multiple. Too many schools were claiming they were the authentic KM, usually proclaiming that the Isrealis certified their school or the head instructor is an official rep from the original program in Isreal. That was one inspiration for the creation of LOTAR.

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#254439 - 05/16/06 07:59 AM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: SEAL]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I have no idea how the civillian programs under these names work.

the history has been discussed endlessly on these pages - but basically KM was developed for use by the military in israel, and branched out and took on a life of its own. LOTAR is what the course tought to special forces in israeli is called, which also includes handgun and carbine shooting, as well as h2h.

most of the instructors in the army are young people, who teach this during their 3 -5 year military service. a small number of older people with more experience. I am guessing that a lot of the people who started the LOTAR franchise are people with military training experience who wanted to branch out and compete with KM.

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#254440 - 05/16/06 08:22 PM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: Stormdragon]
bhalem Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 9
Loc: NYC, NY
I recommend you visit this site www.KAPAPACADEMY.com to get the best info. On a side note I was fortunate to be allowed to become a Kapap instructor through their program and it is really different than Krav in terms of learning the system. They have updated the system to the civilian market. The focus of the learning is on principles, wherein you use drills to develope an understanding what works for you. They say "Always a student sometimes a teacher". Also their is no belt system and they bow to no one.

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#254441 - 05/16/06 11:31 PM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: bhalem]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
bhelem - israeli?

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#254442 - 05/17/06 12:36 PM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: globetrotter]
bhalem Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 9
Loc: NYC, NY
What are you asking, if I am Israeli? Not by birth, wife is, most of family.

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#254443 - 05/18/06 01:39 PM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: bhalem]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
yes, if you are israeli, not nessasarily by birth. I found your name interesting. I just moved to the states 2 years ago from israel.

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#254444 - 05/25/06 07:23 PM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: bhalem]
casmor Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Mexico City Mexico
Hi there, a few months ago, I took the Kapap Academy level one instructor seminar. It was an awesome week, talking with one of the instructors, Major Avi Nardia, I found that they are using the name Kapap because they don't like the idea of somebody be the owner of the term Krav Maga, It's like if somebody was the owner of Karate or judo or any other system, besides, since the israeli army is constantly improving the system to face the ever changing threats in middle east, they don't think that anyone can be called a Master or Teacher, because if they are not active in the military forces, their knowledge will eventually become obsolete compared with what the Israeli military is using. As Major Nardia says: the israeli combat systems weren't created by someone who was meditating un a mountain for years and was suddenly enlighted, they are developed day by day with the blood of the people who is everyday facing the terrorist threat. If the terrorist methods evolve, the technics and systems to face them must evolve too.
Good luck
_________________________
"I don't need to fight to prove I'm right"

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#254445 - 05/25/06 08:15 PM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: casmor]
SEAL Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 139
Good post, there. I created a post in this very thread explaining why the IDF distanced themselves from the name Krav Maga, mirroring Major Nardia's comments; it's nice to hear proof from arguably the top expert on Isreali combat systems.


Edited by SEAL (05/25/06 08:18 PM)

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#254446 - 05/26/06 12:57 AM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: SEAL]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Are there any books or anything like that on the Lotar/Kapap systems? I'd like to learn some but there's no place with 3 hours of where I live to train in those systems and that's a maybe. Also, can anyone describe to me some of the tactics and sxtrategies, principles, etc. used in those systems?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#254447 - 05/27/06 06:34 PM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: Stormdragon]
bhalem Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 9
Loc: NYC, NY
Not to repeat the prior post, but really go to the www.kapapacademy.com site or www.Avinardia.com. You can find links to other Kappap sites like www.Kapap.fr which has some video demonstrations.

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#254448 - 05/28/06 12:14 AM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: bhalem]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
www.kapap.fr looks good except one hting...I can't speak french. I understand a few words but very little.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#254449 - 05/28/06 10:03 AM Re: Lotar/ Kapap? [Re: Stormdragon]
bhalem Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 9
Loc: NYC, NY
I don't speak french either, but they do have some video demo's to check out.

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