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#254319 - 05/15/06 12:26 AM Style that uses the tip area of the blade?
ArtialMartsGuy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 14
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
I forgot where I saw this, I think it was sword forum but I remember reading about a style that focused more on the tip to maybe a foot down the blade. I am just trying to find a style that uses the sword kind of like I do. My teacher taught me very little and then he had to leave so basically all I have been doing was practicing overhead strokes and some basics I learned. Thanks for any help.

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#254320 - 05/15/06 12:31 AM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: ArtialMartsGuy]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm not terribly well versed in many styles. I can tell you for sure that MJER, and probably MSR, are not the styles for you. We aim to cut with the monouchi, which is a spot about a third of the way down the blade from the kissaki.
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#254321 - 05/15/06 09:49 AM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: Charles Mahan]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
My favorite reference, Japanese Swordsmanship by Warner and Draeger, says this on page 104:
"monouchi: area of maximum force generated by blade in motion: approximately 15 centimeters from tip of point section toward base of blade."
This is the @ six inch section measured from the yokote, the line where the curved tip joins the flat of the blade. There is a fairly definitive sketch of the named portions of the blade.

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#254322 - 05/15/06 10:54 AM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: ArtialMartsGuy]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Pretty much all of them.

I don't where people get the idea that JSA folks were some kind of robots that could only use their weapon in a single manner.

When the facts of the matter at that ryu were formed by practical people that were flexable in their approach.

They were not "locked" into only a single method.

If they could kill you with the "tip" end they would do it. If they could kill you with the "middle" part of the sword they would do it.

If they could crush your face with the hilt--they would do it.

And using the last 6 inchs etc of the blade makes sense.
You want to keep your oppt too far to cut you--but keep him close enough for you to cut HIM.

(of course there are other techniques for the "rest" of the blade)

As far as I am aware, this was pretty common to most JSA.

If your looking for a style that uses the blade "kinda like I do" then tell us what style you used to train in and we'll see if we can't find someone that teachs that style near you.


Edited by cxt (05/15/06 10:55 AM)
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#254323 - 05/15/06 11:28 AM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: ArtialMartsGuy]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Saber fencing has heavy emphasis on perfect distance, so you have a lot of miss or hit by inches. Almost every hit is with the top half of the blade.
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#254324 - 05/15/06 01:19 PM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: cxt]
Halley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 126
Quote:

Pretty much all of them.




Hrm, not to speak against experts such as charles, but I was led to understand that the monouchi was not a specific POINT along the blade, but a large SPAN of the blade. The monouchi comprises the first third of the blade, not just the point that is one third of the way down the blade. This is a 20~30cm area on a typical katana. The chuo is the second third of the blade. The tsuba-moto is the remaining third of the blade, that which is nearest the habaki and tsuba, which is usually less sharp.

(I had to read iaibear's quotation twice to see that it concurs with this, though 15cm/6in seems a bit short.)

So I agree, pretty much all of them have a strong focus on the monouchi area of the blade, with little wonder: it's got the highest velocity and is still strong and straight enough to provide a decent slicing motion. Anything else compromises reach, force and strength.


Edited by Halley (05/15/06 01:21 PM)

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#254325 - 05/15/06 01:33 PM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: Halley]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
So far as I can tell, you didn't contradict me. I referred to it as a spot, not a singular point. It's an area around 1/3rd of the way down the blade.

And i'm hardly an expert. I've got a couple of decades to go before I'll even be reasonably competent.
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Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#254326 - 05/15/06 04:56 PM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: cxt]
ArtialMartsGuy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 14
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Thank you for the help but unfortunatley I can't help you much because the person who taught my class was a tae kwon do instructor. He just took some lessons and then made use do 100 over head strokes and basic cuts, after that he left. I should have known a lot of styles use the sword like that too but kinda got carried away on thinking of a specific style. Sorry I can not give much information since you can't self teach yourself. I have just been doing strokes and the basics I have learned for a long while and found like the only school that teaches kendo in Tucson so I could also ask for information on this style.

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#254327 - 05/15/06 05:08 PM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: ArtialMartsGuy]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

I have just been doing strokes and the basics I have learned for a long while and found like the only school that teaches kendo in Tucson so I could also ask for information on this style.



If it were me, I would just forget all about whatever you learned back then, and just start from scratch. Empty cup and all that. There are some excellent sword arts available in Tucson, including two different koryu arts. I know of dojo that teach Araki ryu iaido, Sekiguchi ryu battojutsu, and Nakamura ryu battodo.
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#254328 - 05/15/06 06:23 PM Re: Style that uses the tip area of the blade? [Re: pgsmith]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
I agree with Paul. You are quite fortunate in Tuscon. A lot of good options there. The Araki Ryu and Sekiguchi Ryu stuff are both solid koryu dojos run by good people. The Nakamura Ryu stuff may be Gendai, but it's good stuff and a good dojo to boot by all accounts.

I'd suggest getting in to watch a few classes. See which one seems like a good match for you. Keep an open mind, they're all gonna look a little different from what you're used to and different from each other. Different doesn't mean wrong.

Good luck.
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Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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