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#252726 - 05/10/06 06:20 AM What is "good" Jeet Kune Do?
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
For those who are experienced and/or teaching Jeet Kune Do...what should a "good" JKD school have to offer? What things would you expect to see that would say to you "this is legit"? Is there a standard curriculum or a standard of material that should be taught at any JKD school, or is that sort of against the philosophy of what JKD is?

I understand the philosophy, and tenets of simplicity, aliveness, and adaptability. I undertstand that it isn't really a specific "style", per say. But I am wondering how one would judge any particular school or gym which says it teaches JKD. They must teach some techniques and curriculum...are there certain techniques or styles that you will always see at a "good" JKD school?


Edited by WuXing (05/10/06 06:24 AM)

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#252727 - 05/10/06 06:40 AM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: WuXing]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
What is “good” JKD… Good question!


Number one on the list would be an athletic training environment! People should be sweating and not standing around. You’ll see a LOT of the no-sweating and standing around in places where a more traditional (compound) trapping approach is done. Run for the hills if you wander into one of those schools.

You should be training (athletically) the fundamentals for each range. Some schools may have a level/phase system and others may not. If they have a phase system, you should still be learning the fundamentals of each range, even in the beginning phase.

The ranges are stand-up, clinch and ground (which include kicking, punching, trapping/clinch and ground)

Thus you should be learning the fundamentals of kickboxing/western boxing for stand-up (how to throw a jab, cross, defense, etc.), the fundamentals of the clinch (positioning, pummeling, strikes, takedowns, etc) and the fundamentals of ground-fighting (upa, elbow escape, etc).

Stylistically, you should see elements of:

*Western boxing
*Muay Thai
*Savate
*Greco-Roman style clinch work
*Jun Fan is often present (and sometimes NOT)
*Brazilian jiu-jitsu ground work

Training should be alive and dynamic. If you’re practicing the fundamentals of kickboxing for example, people should be moving around and throwing punches and kicks to their partners who are defending against them and firing punches and kicks in return, etc. You should see focus and Thai pad work also.

You should see people sparring as well. If there is no protective equipment (gloves, shin guards, headgear, etc.), you should ask if sparring is emphasized (as it should be). Sparring may be isolated to one range, or it may (and should) include ALL ranges. Doing isolation sparring and free sparring mirroring “vale tudo” are necessary (doesn’t mean they’re trying to kill each other though…make sure of that. You don’t want to go into a place where the egos are out of control).

Etc.



-John

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#252728 - 05/10/06 12:19 PM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: WuXing]
theoldone Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 172
No comments on that, one way or another. But I think you should avoid a place that says:

"scrutiny & selection to exclude low socio economic, uneducated"

and groups them in the same sentence with "anti-social elements and those with criminal records"
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#252729 - 05/10/06 12:56 PM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: JKogas]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:


Number one on the list would be an athletic training environment! People should be sweating and not standing around.




Here here!! At the end of the day, if you train hard, you fight hard. Lots of sparring is good too, although if there are lots of beginners, then there should be a greater emphasis on technique.
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Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#252730 - 05/10/06 01:07 PM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: WuXing]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:

Is there a standard curriculum or a standard of material that should be taught at any JKD school, or is that sort of against the philosophy of what JKD is?




There is a curriculum, and at the beginner level, it starts with single basic punches, kicks, four corner defense and footwork. It then progresses on to combinations, distance and lots of energy drills. This happens in the class i go to, which is now taught in direct lineage with BL and we get lessons and tutorials from the kimura family every year or two as part of this. There are many self stylised JKD classes, not the actual Jun Fan fighting modified gung fu, but as long as there's lots of work on the basics and tough training, then you're heading in the right direction.
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Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#252731 - 05/10/06 02:34 PM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: JKogas]
QuietGal Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 177
Loc: Missouri
Overall, I do agree with your comments. However, just because a school may not teach ground fighting within their cirriculum, that does not make it a bad school.

A good JKD school I feel it open to the ideas taught and conceptualized by BL and some (not all) of the ideas and practices from other arts. This also includes the roots of JKD, Jun Fan Gung Fu.

I personally get irritated with the whole original/conceptual debate and I appreciate groups that don't get hung up on what has to be JKD. I think that helps make a good school. Then there are always personal preferences that draws someone to a particular school over another.
_________________________
QuietGal "I'm torn between the desire to create and the desire to destroy." - Lucy Van Pelt

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#252732 - 05/10/06 02:55 PM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: QuietGal]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Overall, I do agree with your comments. However, just because a school may not teach ground fighting within their cirriculum, that does not make it a bad school.




Bad? No.....but incomplete? Yes.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#252733 - 05/10/06 03:32 PM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: QuietGal]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Would it be debatable that if BL was alive today, he would not be doing the same thing or teaching the same techniques? Considering how far people like Inosanto, Vunak, Rick Faye, Hartsell and all their students have taken the initial concept, wouldn't it seem more right that JKD is a state of mind, less than it is a school or style?
The thing to keep in mind is that when BL was teaching, very few westerners knew what kung fu, let alone any of it's specific styles were. Kali and BJJ were totally foreign concepts. Given all that, why wouldn't a quality JKD school be measured up to whether it teaches groundfighting or not? I am in no way bashing schools that don't teach it, but I think ignoring ground fighting altogether and just saying "make sure it doesn't go to the ground" is counter progressive and it leaves a huge gap in a vital defensive point in the here and now.

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#252734 - 05/10/06 04:11 PM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: ShikataGaNai]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I think that if we are to follow JKD, then we have to adhere to it's concepts. One of those concepts states that we must strive to "float in totality".

How are we to float in totality if we do not practice ground fighting? To eliminate the ground game from a curriculum would be to "semi-float in partiality".

No doubt that Lee would have changed and continued to evolve, just as Dan Inosanto has (a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu).

It doesn't bother me however if people DON'T pursue ground fighting but I do think it should be part of any decent school these days.


-John

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#252735 - 05/14/06 09:09 AM Re: What is "good" Jeet Kune Do? [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
A question just poped up in my head.

How can "JKD" be "JKD" if you have restraints and limitations? I mean, it would be incomplete.

I doubt BL would say "No groundfighting" when clearly, he did a lot of research on it even though he was never able to see the great importance of it. I believe groundfighting was something, he thought, original.

-Taison out
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